Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I believe it's out of fear possibly that they are giving an alibi for the murderer. Possibly at first from a mistaken date of the alibi. Fear for themselves and family/children possibly.

Or even out of fear from a financial loss. JMVHO. YMMV. M()()

 

[watcher9]

I mentioned i've listened to a lot of Delphi podcasts in the last few weeks. One podcast I heard had the original audio recording. We're used to hearing the cleaned up one beginning "Guys ..." but the very first bit of audio released was nearly unintelligible. It was primarily noises, voice almost impossible (IMO) to pick out. Do we all remember that?

I have no idea if it's the same with audio, but with still photos, I know that digital editing can do wonders with some faults--though it sometimes introduces artifacts of its own, that may or may not be obvious, depending on the photo and the viewer. I wonder to what degree the BG audio clip has been altered (if any) by the process of bringing it out of the noise.

I remember us talking about hearing the rustling of leaves they were walking on.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I occasionally wonder how many of our WS members are suspects, POIs and/or murderers, lurking around.

If I was one of those people I would be on websleuths and other similar forums, social media and groups on sm, the media in general, newspapers, etc. like white on rice. mOO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

His comment about the killer possibly turning himself in sounds pretty far fetched, if you ask me. MOO. But hey what do I know.

I hate to quote my own post BUT something just popped into my tiny brain: if LE was hinting around that KAK is BG than that idea of the killer turning themselves in could be a possibility. I say this because after reading the redacted affidavit, it seems like KAK just told on himself willingly. Like he rolled over on himself so easily and quickly, and in my opinion that does not make any sense, but we do know that that happened. So...

JMVHO. m00ing

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

My personal opinion: the guy’s body, walk, clothes and voice were broadcasted all over. He has to lie very low to be undetected, probably, among people who never heard about Delphi murder. So it is not that he found the experience unpleasant, he was simply scared, and lying low. And now, perhaps, Covid offered its corrections. Also, he has to be asking himself, how soon will science advance to the level when that DNA will be more than enough.

My opinion, hopefully it is soon. Hopefully it is today, and if not today then hopefully tomorrow.

 

[AC4RD]

It wouldn't surprise me if he visits here and Reddit as a guest and not a member.

OK, we have you now! I'm going to turn my back and count to three! * When I turn back around, I want BG to CONFESS! Ready?

;-) OK, JnRyan, not funny, you're right. But you've hit another of my "why didn't I ever think of that myself?" points, JnR--it seems overwhelmingly likely now that you've pointed it out, that BG keeps an eye on online sources such as WS.

It has been a few weeks since I looked at the Reddit groups for Delphi; there are some perfectly serious and reasonable people there--and a whole LOT of "other." BG may actually be one of the Reddit trolls for all we know. :-/

--------Footnotes-----------
* "Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three."

 

[sandy_80]

if he is a drifter and on the older side.. its possible he doesn't engage in any online activity at all ..everything is possible ..

 

[Ekliptika]

Yes, remember how in the beginning they said, one of the girls had the chance to escape? It was loyalty and friendship.

Agree about the search.

I remember reading this. Tried to find a source for it some time ago and I was not succesful, so I wonder if this is one of these statements that gets repeated so many times so we believe it as fact later on. Do you have a source on this? Who Said this and in what context?

 

[acutename]

I remember reading this. Tried to find a source for it some time ago and I was not succesful, so I wonder if this is one of these statements that gets repeated so many times so we believe it as fact later on. Do you have a source on this? Who Said this and in what context?

“They did not leave each other's side. I don't know what happened out there that day---there's a chance, an opportunity for one to break off or split or make a break for it, or whatever,” said Mike. “I look at it you, know two young soldiers that stuck together, covered each other's back, two best friends, you know. I wouldn't leave my best friend side. Neither did they.”

https://www.wrtv.com/longform/delphi-daughters-the-untold-story-of-abby-libby

way back I wondered why some one would kill 2 girls- if that was significant- had 2 sisters that treated him badly; girlfriend ran off with another woman- some psychological thing that irked him about the friendship... but some of these big psych theories mean nothing and a killer is like a grizzly having a snack. IMO.

 

[Georgia8]

1. Kelly says we are dealing with a sadistic killer and a killer to who the visual sense/orientation is important. Apart from a hunch/intuition or drawing a LOT of information from the meagre bit LE has given us ("strange signatures" "at least three") he does seem to be drawing on some of the online/youtube type rumour or information OR something he is privy to from a source he can't divulge. Am I right?

2. Does someone know? in the literature on sadistic killers whether serial or otherwise is there a pattern in terms of how much time they wish or need to spend with the victims? Obviously in some cases it is a lot. But here IF "it was all over by 3:30" and for those who think it was planned me among them it seems there was not much time spent in the crime.

3. The biggest barriers (for me) to the planned theory is 1. the fact the visit to the bridge was apparently an imprompu idea of course if they were catfished or stalked that is no problem 2. the bigger one for me is the march from the end of the bridge to murder site. I still do not quite understand what the likelihood is of them encountering another hiker - it seems to me it is too high for this to be a really good plan.

 

[Charlot123]

I remember reading this. Tried to find a source for it some time ago and I was not succesful, so I wonder if this is one of these statements that gets repeated so many times so we believe it as fact later on. Do you have a source on this? Who Said this and in what context?

OK, I started following the case in late 2018, and only for one reason - because there were rumors, or talks, that the DNA would be submitted to the Parabon. (It had to be that serious). So I did not follow it in 2017 nor early 2018. My feeling is, it was one of early PCs. But again, I looked backwards at the case in 2018, so hard to tell. I think all these things were repeated after 2019 PC.

 

[Charlot123]

OK, we have you now! I'm going to turn my back and count to three! * When I turn back around, I want BG to CONFESS! Ready?

;-) OK, JnRyan, not funny, you're right. But you've hit another of my "why didn't I ever think of that myself?" points, JnR--it seems overwhelmingly likely now that you've pointed it out, that BG keeps an eye on online sources such as WS.

It has been a few weeks since I looked at the Reddit groups for Delphi; there are some perfectly serious and reasonable people there--and a whole LOT of "other." BG may actually be one of the Reddit trolls for all we know. :-/

--------Footnotes-----------
* "Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three."

Guest is more likely because I am not sure he has own SM, but if he is a member, I expect him to be easy, funny and non-substantial. Maybe, leaving tiny “crumbs” of hints.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

OK, we have you now! I'm going to turn my back and count to three! * When I turn back around, I want BG to CONFESS! Ready?

;-) OK, JnRyan, not funny, you're right. But you've hit another of my "why didn't I ever think of that myself?" points, JnR--it seems overwhelmingly likely now that you've pointed it out, that BG keeps an eye on online sources such as WS.

It has been a few weeks since I looked at the Reddit groups for Delphi; there are some perfectly serious and reasonable people there--and a whole LOT of "other." BG may actually be one of the Reddit trolls for all we know. :-/

--------Footnotes-----------
* "Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three."

Speaking of these “others”, on FB the other day one of these LOST “others” made a post saying something about coming to FB to see if a rumor was factual. I laughed and laughed.
BG could be a WS troll for that matter.

And good for you (for real) for having the patience (and the time) to read through all of the stuff on Reddit. Applause!

 

[Nick217]

Is the common belief around here that this was BGs first murder? It just seems weird and more difficult to start with two victims for his first time and would possibly have killed a single person before.

Purely speculation.

 

[gregjrichards]

I occasionally wonder how many of our WS members are suspects, POIs and/or murderers, lurking around.

If I was one of those people I would be on websleuths and other similar forums, social media and groups on sm, the media in general, newspapers, etc. like white on rice. mOO

I don’t know how a monster capable of a crime like this mind works. But I would think they would be more concerned and paranoid about what is happening with the investigation and how close law enforcement and the FBI were getting to making an arrest than what was being posted on message boards etc in threads about the case. Our posts, theories and speculation do not indicate the status of the investigation and we do not have access to the evidence and information law enforcement has about the crime so I don’t know if the perpetrator would be constantly closely monitoring all the posts people were making online about it.

I am certain they will be keeping a close eye out for any news articles and the press releases and comments made by law enforcement about the case. The killer would likely be very interested in reading these.

Is the common belief around here that this was BGs first murder? It just seems weird and more difficult to start with two victims for his first time and would possibly have killed a single person before.

Purely speculation.

It seems very unlikely and virtually impossible to me that a killer could wake up one morning and decide to kill two teenage girls in the same attack during the day and in a public place having never killed anyone before. You would need to be incredibly fearless and brazen to take a risk like that. The perpetrator is very likely to be a hunter but I don’t think having a lot of experience of killing an animal like a deer would give a killer the confidence to kill two people at once for their first time.

The Law enforcement Sergeant said “you made mistakes” when he addressed the killer directly at one of the press conferences, so the killer must have made errors but we have no idea what these could possibly be. I think the killer must have killed other victims before and they gained knowledge and experience from those attacks and crime scenes (possibly regarding how to avoid leaving forensic evidence as much as possible), which has helped them avoid being arrested so far. If they have managed to commit murder before and not be caught yet then I would imagine this would likely give the monster the confidence to attack Abigail and Liberty during the day in a public place. It would be unbelievable if the perpetrator had never killed anyone before and they have been able to kill two people on their first attempt and managed to avoid being arrested for nearly five years.

I wonder if we will get any more updates about the investigation on the fifth anniversary next month. It will be understandable if law enforcement are unable to do so at this stage given they only asked for information at the end of December. Hopefully they have gotten information recently which moves the investigation forward.

 

[MollyDDD]

“They did not leave each other's side. I don't know what happened out there that day---there's a chance, an opportunity for one to break off or split or make a break for it, or whatever,” said Mike. “I look at it you, know two young soldiers that stuck together, covered each other's back, two best friends, you know. I wouldn't leave my best friend side. Neither did they.”

https://www.wrtv.com/longform/delphi-daughters-the-untold-story-of-abby-libby

way back I wondered why some one would kill 2 girls- if that was significant- had 2 sisters that treated him badly; girlfriend ran off with another woman- some psychological thing that irked him about the friendship... but some of these big psych theories mean nothing and a killer is like a grizzly having a snack. IMO.

So is “Mike” saying he knows this as fact or is he simply surmising they stuck together?

 

[Lavender Moon]

Is the common belief around here that this was BGs first murder? It just seems weird and more difficult to start with two victims for his first time and would possibly have killed a single person before.

Purely speculation.

IMO this was not his first murder. I think your point is spot on about it being weird for him to start with two victims for his first kill.

 

[Marlo56]

I don’t know how a monster capable of a crime like this mind works. But I would think they would be more concerned and paranoid about what is happening with the investigation and how close law enforcement and the FBI were getting to making an arrest than what was being posted on message boards etc in threads about the case. Our posts, theories and speculation do not indicate the status of the investigation and we do not have access to the evidence and information law enforcement has about the crime so I don’t know if the perpetrator would be constantly closely monitoring all the posts people were making online about it.

I am certain they will be keeping a close eye out for any news articles and the press releases and comments made by law enforcement about the case. The killer would likely be very interested in reading these.



It seems very unlikely and virtually impossible to me that a killer could wake up one morning and decide to kill two teenage girls in the same attack during the day and in a public place having never killed anyone before. You would need to be incredibly fearless and brazen to take a risk like that. The perpetrator is very likely to be a hunter but I don’t think having a lot of experience of killing an animal like a deer would give a killer the confidence to kill two people at once for their first time.

The Law enforcement Sergeant said “you made mistakes” when he addressed the killer directly at one of the press conferences, so the killer must have made errors but we have no idea what these could possibly be. I think the killer must have killed other victims before and they gained knowledge and experience from those attacks and crime scenes (possibly regarding how to avoid leaving forensic evidence as much as possible), which has helped them avoid being arrested so far. If they have managed to commit murder before and not be caught yet then I would imagine this would likely give the monster the confidence to attack Abigail and Liberty during the day in a public place. It would be unbelievable if the perpetrator had never killed anyone before and they have been able to kill two people on their first attempt and managed to avoid being arrested for nearly five years.

I wonder if we will get any more updates about the investigation on the fifth anniversary next month. It will be understandable if law enforcement are unable to do so at this stage given they only asked for information at the end of December. Hopefully they have gotten information recently which moves the investigation forward.

Although a few posters have taken the conversation in this direction, I brought the idea up on the previous page of BG participating in online discussions not because I think he's monitoring what everyone is saying, but because I think he is getting off on the idea of "getting away with it."

And I specifically say "participate," not just read, because I do not believe a narcissistic psychopath who does something like this for enjoyment would be that passive.

With this in mind, I have seen a handful of accounts in various places that I've raised an eyebrow at. Accounts that aren't quite trolling for attention; I would describe them more as piss-taking, and I have to wonder why someone would spend their time doing that on this particular case.

Killers in the past have satisfied their taunting urge (or piss-taking urge) by sending letters with cryptic clues and making threatening phone calls. Nowadays, they just need to create fake profiles and leave weird remarks. I see the latter semi-frequently, and while some are probably just random weirdos, some might be him, and I get frustrated that no one sees it and that there's seemingly nothing we can do about it.

 

[FromGermany1]

Guest is more likely because I am not sure he has own SM, but if he is a member, I expect him to be easy, funny and non-substantial. Maybe, leaving tiny “crumbs” of hints.

Maybe, he even is busy working the case with us, maps/pics/links/sound knowledge and all, IMO. We don't know though, at which point he purposely is leading us astray a bit, if he does at all.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t know how a monster capable of a crime like this mind works. But I would think they would be more concerned and paranoid about what is happening with the investigation and how close law enforcement and the FBI were getting to making an arrest than what was being posted on message boards etc in threads about the case. Our posts, theories and speculation do not indicate the status of the investigation and we do not have access to the evidence and information law enforcement has about the crime so I don’t know if the perpetrator would be constantly closely monitoring all the posts people were making online about it.

I am certain they will be keeping a close eye out for any news articles and the press releases and comments made by law enforcement about the case. The killer would likely be very interested in reading these.



It seems very unlikely and virtually impossible to me that a killer could wake up one morning and decide to kill two teenage girls in the same attack during the day and in a public place having never killed anyone before. You would need to be incredibly fearless and brazen to take a risk like that. The perpetrator is very likely to be a hunter but I don’t think having a lot of experience of killing an animal like a deer would give a killer the confidence to kill two people at once for their first time.

The Law enforcement Sergeant said “you made mistakes” when he addressed the killer directly at one of the press conferences, so the killer must have made errors but we have no idea what these could possibly be. I think the killer must have killed other victims before and they gained knowledge and experience from those attacks and crime scenes (possibly regarding how to avoid leaving forensic evidence as much as possible), which has helped them avoid being arrested so far. If they have managed to commit murder before and not be caught yet then I would imagine this would likely give the monster the confidence to attack Abigail and Liberty during the day in a public place. It would be unbelievable if the perpetrator had never killed anyone before and they have been able to kill two people on their first attempt and managed to avoid being arrested for nearly five years.

I wonder if we will get any more updates about the investigation on the fifth anniversary next month. It will be understandable if law enforcement are unable to do so at this stage given they only asked for information at the end of December. Hopefully they have gotten information recently which moves the investigation forward.

I think both sides “made mistakes”, tbh.

Here is what I don’t understand. If the guy had killed before, he probably abducted and hid the victims, leaving far fewer clues. Maybe they haven’t been found yet… Here, it is possible that abduction went wrong, but BG must have foreseen it - otherwise, why all these talks about him caring and taking steps not to leave DNA?

So what kind of a person plans abduction/murder, but also thinks “if she/they try to run away, and I have to kill on the spot, not to forget adding the (detergent?) to the kill kit”?

This is ultra-planning to me. And this looks strange. As if he knew there will be too little time.

This makes me wonder if the girls were targeted specifically, and the goal was to kill them no matter where. And the rest is to create the impression of random victims.

Or else, he indeed abducts random victims and keeps alive (Patterson-style) for a while, but in Delphi, it went wrong; however, then, the rest, with staging a “strange” CS, per Ives, makes no sense, too.

It is as if several MOs were merged in one.

Why?

P.S. it is beginning to resemble the scene from “the murder on the Orient Express”, where several people act as their own jury, but as the result, the case looks so convoluted (I recommend to read the plot).

Could it be that we are dealing with, indeed, a couple of young assassins, and then, their parents trying to cover up for them? But if this is the case, how did several people manage not to leave DNA? Or are there too many DNAs, and it looks like “the web of local DNAs?” So, DNA upon DNA, nothing pointing at a specific killer/rapist?