Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

[StarryStarryNight]

Has law enforcement determined if the Delphi murders were the result of an organize or disorganized killer? I am not so certain BG was such a great planner. In my opinion, he just got lucky.

Here's my theory and opinion on what happened: Please don't read on if you are easily disturbed.
1) BG arrives where he expected to see either Abby or Abby to meet a good looking young guy. They expected this because of BGs "catfishing" the girl, using the photo of the young Alaska cop.
2) He sees Libby together and decides to kidnap them both and take them in his vehicle to a secondary location where he can molest and murder them.
2) BG traps Abby and Libby against the end of the bridge, produces a gun, and tells them to go down the hill towards the cemetery, near where his vehicle is.
3) BG overestimates his ability to control Abby and Libby. Abby and Libby at some point make a break for it and run away from the guy. Libby loses her shoe during the run. Unfortunately, in their panic, the girls run across the creek, and into a dead end, hilly area that is the murder site.
4) Because Abby and Libby boxed themselves into the dead end murder site, BG is able to catch up with them and quickly murders them.
5) After the murders, BG poses them in typical serial killer fashion, <modsnip> (This is why at the news conference LE said "Where Libby and Abby are now is not how you left them."
6) BG tosses some of their clothing into the nearby creak where it is discovered later by searchers.
7) BG exits through the cemetery and walks to his vehicle.

This is just my opinion and theory on what transpired that horrible day. I pray for justice for Abby and Libby. May their killer be brought to justice soon.

I agree with most of this, especially the part about about him being just lucky.

 

[magnetic]

The other thing that Sheriff Leazenby said that kind of gave me chills was that he felt he'd heard that voice. I know that the quality of the audio not being the best, since Libby had to mostly likely hide her phone, could make a voice sound pretty generic. Still the Sheriff thinking he'd heard BG's voice before always stuck in my mind as chilling. AJMO

I am pretty sure that KG said something similar to the effect of, that she has heard that voice before but cannot place it. I think BG is very close to home and don't believe its KAK or JBC.

 

[MollyDDD]

Ancestry.com and the other DNA sites use a tube of saliva to obtain the DNA sample.

Thank you, I wasn’t sure. But haven’t some criminals been caught because of the connection to their loved one who did that?

 

[Trebor5591]

Thank you, I wasn’t sure. But haven’t some criminals been caught because of the connection to their loved one who did that?

Yes. The most famous example of someone caught by familial DNA that I can recall is the Golden State Killer.

 

[TedMac]

Thank you, I wasn’t sure. But haven’t some criminals been caught because of the connection to their loved one who did that?

Yes. The most famous example of someone caught by familial DNA that I can recall is the Golden State Killer.

Likewise, the J.B. Beasley & Tracie Hawlett murders in 1999 in AL was solved in 2019 with familial DNA. Prior to the DNA analysis, the killer was never on LE's radar.

 

[HistoryNut]

Thank you, I wasn’t sure. But haven’t some criminals been caught because of the connection to their loved one who did that?

The Golden State killer. Sorry if this is a duplicate.

 

[Yuletide]

Wendy Jerome

 

[Lavender Moon]

Wendy Jerome

Also BTK

 

[MistyWaters]

This report was published June 1, 2018.

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity
“Recently asked about familial DNA searches and the homicide investigation into German and Williams' death, Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said, “Obviously the answer hasn‘t come to the surface, yet..”

 

[sunshineray]

I am pretty sure that KG said something similar to the effect of, that she has heard that voice before but cannot place it. I think BG is very close to home and don't believe its KAK or JBC.

I lean that way too...most of the time. Other times JBC just jumps up. I think KAK maybe be relevant in that he created an avenue used by others to prey on young girls. I'd go as far as to say he may know who BG is.

 

[JnRyan]

This report was published June 1, 2018.

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity
“Recently asked about familial DNA searches and the homicide investigation into German and Williams' death, Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said, “Obviously the answer hasn‘t come to the surface, yet..”

This is from three and a half years ago. IF LE has a good DNA sample what are they waiting for? OR is it a matter of waiting? For example, Sheriff Leazenby has stated they don't know if they have the killer's DNA. So could it be they have more than one unidentified profile? A partial DNA that is not usable in a familial search? If it is funding resources, the writer brings up a good question: How much has been spent on manpower resources already? If money is that tight where did they find the funds to lease an additional building that is supposedly specifically for this investigation? (We're going to lease an additional building, but we can't afford a familial search?)

This is sounding more and more like they don't have a usable DNA profile.

 

[sunshineray]

This is from three and a half years ago. IF LE has a good DNA sample what are they waiting for? OR is it a matter of waiting? For example, Sheriff Leazenby has stated they don't know if they have the killer's DNA. So could it be they have more than one unidentified profile? A partial DNA that is not usable in a familial search? If it is funding resources, the writer brings up a good question: How much has been spent on manpower resources already? If money is that tight where did they find the funds to lease an additional building that is supposedly specifically for this investigation? (We're going to lease an additional building, but we can't afford a familial search?)

This is sounding more and more like they don't have a usable DNA profile.

I think there was a time that LE was hopefully that DNA testing was going to help the case. I don't know if that was by finding the actual killer's identity via DNA or narrowing down the suspect pool with DNA family research like what was done in the Golden State Killer case.

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby gives quite a few hopeful quotes in this article from Jan 2019. DNA was sent to Quantico right before Christmas 2018. LE must have learnt something from the results of this testing research. Then the April 2019 press conference happened with it's heavy innuendoes about being on the right track early on and the feeling I got of LE being mislead or outright betrayed.

I know the source isn't the best but it was really the only news organization that LE talked to at that time about what they were doing. That in itself was interesting.

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

 

[Laughing]

I am pretty sure that KG said something similar to the effect of, that she has heard that voice before but cannot place it. I think BG is very close to home and don't believe its KAK or JBC.

I admit freely that I get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. We also know that when there are not enough dots to connect, I may create a few.

Voices you recognize, but can't quite place:

Radio DJ
Announcements over loudspeakers - airport, train station, amusement parks, elevator, maybe your school? Could be recorded - walk left, stand right; step to the rear of the tram; Second Floor
Caller at the racetrack
Sports announcer in the booth, live events
Voice actors for voice-over commercials, cartoons
Recorded/audio tour at the zoo or a historic site

What other voices to we hear -- when we do not see the person speaking?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[FromGermany1]

Kelsi German

@libertyg_sister
·
4. Jan.

It appears
@libby1227
was hacked by someone out of the country. This happens to many inactive accounts. I cannot log in to change the password so if you could please go report this account as a fake/suspicious account so it will get deleted that would be much appreciated .
-.-.-


Kelsi German

@libertyg_sister

Luckily, it’s an account she used what looks like only once.

 

[FromGermany1]

I admit freely that I get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. We also know that when there are not enough dots to connect, I may create a few.

Voices you recognize, but can't quite place:

Radio DJ
Announcements over loudspeakers - airport, train station, amusement parks, elevator, maybe your school? Could be recorded - walk left, stand right; step to the rear of the tram; Second Floor
Caller at the racetrack
Sports announcer in the booth, live events
Voice actors for voice-over commercials, cartoons
Recorded/audio tour at the zoo or a historic site

What other voices do we hear -- when we do not see the person speaking?

jmho ymmv lrr

bbm
Thank you for your ideas!

I may add:
..... or when the person, who is speaking, doesn't resemble sketch #1 (OBG) and the video figure.

Announcements over microphone/loudspeakers, as you said.
Further I may add: Think of 2016/2017 - NOT now. Because of reasons, the voice may have changed a lot. Could be less rough.

 

[Yemelyan]

This is from three and a half years ago. IF LE has a good DNA sample what are they waiting for? OR is it a matter of waiting? For example, Sheriff Leazenby has stated they don't know if they have the killer's DNA. So could it be they have more than one unidentified profile? A partial DNA that is not usable in a familial search? If it is funding resources, the writer brings up a good question: How much has been spent on manpower resources already? If money is that tight where did they find the funds to lease an additional building that is supposedly specifically for this investigation? (We're going to lease an additional building, but we can't afford a familial search?)

This is sounding more and more like they don't have a usable DNA profile.

IMO I would agree it's not funding and it's not LE's lack of awareness of genetic genealogy that's holding them back. This is 2022 and Indiana already has at least one cold case solved through genetic genealogy (murder of April Tinsley).

So let's just look at the April Tinsley case where Indiana was able to solve successfully using genetic genealogy techniques (performed by Parabon, in that case): for April Tinsley, LE had an apparently full DNA profile and they had multiple samples matched to the same perpetrator (in the victim's underwear and also in used condoms left at other crime scenes). So they had no doubt that the sample they had was tied to the sexual assault of their victim. They weren't looking at possible innocuous DNA transfer like skin cells left on a shirt, for example; their sample was male biological fluid left on the victim's underwear that only could have gotten there one way, and they knew they were dealing with a serial sexual offender. To sum up: in April's case LE had a full DNA profile for comparison, multiple samples, and male biological fluid that can only get there through sexual contact.

My guess is that Delphi doesn't have these same testing conditions. They either have a partial profile (it's not very scientifically sound to try to do partial familial matching to an already partial DNA profile), or they don't have corroboration that the unmatched DNA sample they have was definitely left by the offender. These are both going to be major barriers to using either genetic genealogy (what Parabon does) or familial DNA searches of state and local crime databases (the latter methodology I believe is restricted by the state of Indiana anyway).

IMO there is something tying LE's hands here and it's not "they haven't heard of genetic genealogy yet."

 

[Trebor5591]

I found the below YouTube video where the former Scotland Yard Homicide investigator Steven Keogh (author of the book Murder Investigation Team) analyzes the police investigation of the Delph Murders. It is well worth watching.
Keogh's analysis is that the murder investigation into Abby and Libby's murder has been hampered by investigators inexperience, which manifests in their refusal to release very basic information (such as cause of death). Releasing such information might jog the recollection of members of the public who know the murderer and might turn him in.

 

[FromGermany1]

bbm
Thank you for your ideas!

I may add:
..... or when the person, who is speaking, doesn't resemble sketch #1 (OBG) and the video figure.

Announcements over microphone/loudspeakers, as you said.
Further I may add: Think of 2016/2017 - NOT now. Because of reasons, the voice may have changed a lot. Could be less rough.

Correction: Voice could be less rough meanwhile.

 

[JnRyan]

I think there was a time that LE was hopefully that DNA testing was going to help the case. I don't know if that was by finding the actual killer's identity via DNA or narrowing down the suspect pool with DNA family research like what was done in the Golden State Killer case.

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby gives quite a few hopeful quotes in this article from Jan 2019. DNA was sent to Quantico right before Christmas 2018. LE must have learnt something from the results of this testing research. Then the April 2019 press conference happened with it's heavy innuendoes about being on the right track early on and the feeling I got of LE being mislead or outright betrayed.

I know the source isn't the best but it was really the only news organization that LE talked to at that time about what they were doing. That in itself was interesting.

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

Thanks for that article. That was on my mind when I wrote my post but I couldn't find an article. What I remembered was ISP Sgt Kim Riley addressing the same matter when answering a question from the media but I still cannot find that. So here we have an article from three and a half years where LE apparently still hasn't pursued familial searches. One excuse given in the article is limited resources. But in a case where there was over a 100 LE personnel involved in the early few months and now there is a building being leased to house the investigation that statement doesn't sound right. (Of course, that could be the reporter's misinterpretation, too.) I agree that LE probably wanted to do something with the DNA testing. But I wonder if LE may have discovered when submitting what they had that it wasn't adequate for such testing. Hence the submission at the end of 2018. That late 2018 submission may have been a "Hail Mary" attempt to find something better than what the earlier lab results produced?

We have a case here in VA, the Childs/Metzler murders, in August 2009. Just a few years later, the sheriff proclaimed they have the killer's DNA. Not just DNA, but he stated definitively that LE not only has DNA, but it is the killer's. And yet here we are over 10 years later and no progress there either on the DNA and many of us are starting to have doubts about that DNA.

I don't buy the excuses that the ISP lab can't do it (what about the FBI or private labs), lack of resources or LE just hasn't gotten around to it. The sad reality might be that LE just doesn't have what they need to do this DNA search. I'm truly starting to believe LE needs that 'one tip', because DNA may not be a significant factor in this investigation.

 

[JnRyan]

I found the below YouTube video where the former Scotland Yard Homicide investigator Steven Keogh (author of the book Murder Investigation Team) analyzes the police investigation of the Delph Murders. It is well worth watching.
Keogh's analysis is that the murder investigation into Abby and Libby's murder has been hampered by investigators inexperience, which manifests in their refusal to release very basic information (such as cause of death). Releasing such information might jog the recollection of members of the public who know the murderer and might turn him in.

I watched that video. He brings up some interesting points.