Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

[sunshineray]

Agree.

There is a strange dichotomy here. On the one hand, the way DC is trying to shame the person, indicates a younger man. On the other hand, the guy’s organization would rather point at the higher end of the age spectrum we have.

I always thought the perp was not religious. I am now wondering if he could have been psychotically religious, like, say, Robert Lewis Dear. That would be at odds with the killer’s mental organization, but could explain some words DC used speaking “directly” to him. After all, of this aspect (what happened that day, how the girls were left), we know nothing, and DC, everything. Or else, the killer is the person who is known to loudly profess his religiosity, and inside, is very different.

I think those shaming words could have been meant for an older man too, if that older man was showing an earnest and responsible facade daily in the community.

I don't know the part of the country these murders occured in but religion does seem more established in a grassroots community way there than say in a city. Killer may have been brought up religiously but is not faithful in any way. A lot of times people just go along with the flow for show. I've known a few but I can't see a murderer of children as any honest man of religion, no way, no how. AJMO

 

[Prime8]

I thought confirmed as WS is letting the posts stand?

But what does that mean? It honestly means nothing unless it's coming directly from someone we know has access to case information.

 

[Prime8]

“The ISP Carter saying at the end of the Flora Fire PC when pressed about if all the Delphi family members have been cleared, most reluctantly (I mean the man almost winched) he says only the vast majority.”

Okay, so we should just assume that the all of the immediate family members were “cleared”, whether they participated in the search or not, right?

Honestly, I don't think we can assume anything from that answer.

 

[Prime8]

I totally agree with what you say here, but I have to admit that the bigger picture leads me to believe the gun story. Firstly, it isn't all that far in distance from where BG was on the bridge during the video to the end of the bridge, where LE has stated "DTH" was said (and LE has also stated there really isn't any more of BG talking on the audio, iirc). Whether or not the video/audio is continuous or separate almost doesn't matter, imo.

TL said BG gained control through "intimidation and manipulation." We can guess he pretended he was a park employee or had a puppy, but realistically, what would be the most likely means of abducting and controlling two teenager girls? Imo, a weapon, quite easily a gun.

Guns are ubiquitous. With a gun he wouldn't need a disguise or a lure or need to say anything else. It's kind of the Occam's Razor in this situation, from my own perspective.

Yeah, I just don't want this place going to way of Reddit - we need to be very clear what is confirmed and what is speculation, even if that speculation is based on very good thought processes.

 

[asyousay]

But what does that mean? It honestly means nothing unless it's coming directly from someone we know has access to case information.

it means WS obviously trusts the source of the information. It obviously came directly from a source who then passed along the story.


Why would somebody who is close to the family jeopardize his relationship and put out a false information?

 

[carbuff]

it means WS obviously trusts the source of the information. It obviously came directly from a source who then passed along the story.


Why would somebody who is close to the family jeopardize his relationship and put out a false information?

False doesn't have to be intentional. People can be mistaken with the best of intentions.

 

[IceIce9]

Two Carroll County deputies killed in crash

Memorials grow for Carroll County deputies killed in crash | wthr.com

It’s something that Sheriff Leazenby said there has been no shortage of since this crash claimed the lives of two of their own.

“As we go through this with Carroll County, don’t forget the families. Pick up the phone. Give them a call. When you see a police officer, a public safety worker tell them thank you for their service because it does go a long way,” said Luce.

“Delphi is a strong community, very close-knit community, we care about each other, we care about our citizens, we care about our law enforcement personnel,” said Stephens. “They support us during our times of difficulty, in our times of need, and now it’s our opportunity as a community to stand beside our Sheriff’s Department, our law enforcement and show them that we are supporting them during their time of need.”

 

[Ravenmoon]

it means WS obviously trusts the source of the information. It obviously came directly from a source who then passed along the story.


Why would somebody who is close to the family jeopardize his relationship and put out a false information?

I think the question lies mostly with the fact that as the story gets repeated, details can change. I do believe that even though GH is basically not everyone's favorite host, he does carefully vet his facts and the people that speak about this case in particular. So, while most of us are comfortable accepting what comes from him and his videos- we cannot say that any of it is verbatim or that somewhere along the way small and/or nuanced details may have changed.

AMOO JMO MOO

EBM to correct spelling

 

[MollyDDD]

Just a version. TL says he feels bad he cancelled the request for search dogs; most likely, it means the dog could have alerted to some things and helped to understand the escape route.

But maybe, just maybe, the guy was still standing on the CS with the search group, or was somewhere around in the forest. And the dogs would have alerted and run up to him, in TL’s imagination.

Could Tobe mean this?

I think, with any usual escape route, the scent would have been lost, unless the guy went to his house, or some dwelling that was close to the CS. But if he was still present on the search day, maybe, he would have been suspected sooner.

Preferably it would have been more than one search dog, but then again, this is Delphi. Nevertheless, the dogs would have found the bodies and the killer if he had any scent on him from the girls. Too late now. IMO

 

[Prime8]

False doesn't have to be intentional. People can be mistaken with the best of intentions.

That is it exactly carbuff.

And yes, I know that WS trusts the source, but that doesn't mean anything to me. Why would I trust a stranger on the internet to verify another stranger on the internet has spoken to a family member who was given information by LE. And yes, WS is run waaaaay more responsibly than every other site I've ever visited but that doesn't make me any less skeptical to the point where I would refer to that content as straight up fact. I just want people to be responsible in what they consider fact vs. rumor/speculation that comes from a source 3 people removed with no way to verify.

 

[carbuff]

That is it exactly carbuff.

And yes, I know that WS trusts the source, but that doesn't mean anything to me. Why would I trust a stranger on the internet to verify another stranger on the internet has spoken to a family member who was given information by LE. And yes, WS is run waaaaay more responsibly than every other site I've ever visited but that doesn't make me any less skeptical to the point where I would refer to that content as straight up fact. I just want people to be responsible in what they consider fact vs. rumor/speculation that comes from a source 3 people removed with no way to verify.

I keep a large supply of salt near my laptop.

 

[MollyDDD]

Thank you for the link @sunshineray. I've been wanting to see it again.

This is what has always suggested to me that the girls had a prior encounter with BG that day, either on the trail, or even the bridge. And, I think words were exchanged during that prior encounter, as well.

There's just something casual about the way he approaches them and immediately says, "Guys..." IDK.

But what's always struck me is how very...I don't know the word...predictable this description is of the kind of crime occurring. Follow until he can corner them, pull a gun, and order them to a location out of view. For me, personally, it takes away the fantastical: kill kits, disguises, lairs, props, staging, etc. and reveals a more straight-forward abduction/SA/murder scenario. That's MOO, though, and I respect that others view it differently.

But again, we have RI describing the CS as "odd" and including "signatures." It makes me wonder if once BG got the girls under his control, he sort of didn't know what to do with them. I mean, I think he knew what he wanted, but once he got them to the spot he eventually killed them, what actually happened between setting foot there, and leaving them dead? It's in that time frame that his personality and reasoning had to unconsciously come through. IMO. It just doesn't feel planned to me, I don't know why. And I wonder if significant things happened between the end of the bridge and the CS, besides.

L's shoe comes into play here. I'm not sure it has ever been clearly stated which side of the creek the shoe was found. Has it? It's easy to assume the footprints led to the shoe on the south bank, but if footprints led into the water, I would
instinctually look across the creek to see where the person exited on the other side. So maybe that's where the shoe was? IDK. Unless the girls fled, or BG was unaware her shoe came off, why would he leave it behind? It seems strange. I greatly wonder what was happening the moment that shoe came off.

Sorry for rambling...

You’re not rambling at all, you, like all of us are just trying to sort things out and try to make some sense of it all.
I have a question about the shoe, do we know the color by any chance? The reason I ask is, JBC has a photo of himself sitting in the woods, one of many, and when you look closely in the area under his arm, there is a girl’s pink sneaker and part of a leg showing. It looks like it’s photoshopped but he does that purposely on a lot of his pictures. IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

You’re not rambling at all, you, like all of us are just trying to sort things out and try to make some sense of it all.
I have a question about the shoe, do we know the color by any chance? The reason I ask is, JBC has a photo of himself sitting in the woods, one of many, and when you look closely in the area under his arm, there is a girl’s pink sneaker and part of a leg showing. It looks like it’s photoshopped but he does that purposely on a lot of his pictures. IMO

Black Nike.

EBM to add KG talks about this in Episode 2 of the DTH Podcast with HLN.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[MollyDDD]

Black Nike.

AMOO JMO MOO

Alrighty then! (in my best Jim Carey)

 

[MollyDDD]

Yeah, I just don't want this place going to way of Reddit - we need to be very clear what is confirmed and what is speculation, even if that speculation is based on very good thought processes.

Not to worry, that’s why we have Moderators. As a matter of fact, I think they’re looking for volunteers.

 

[MollyDDD]

But what does that mean? It honestly means nothing unless it's coming directly from someone we know has access to case information.

Ruh roh.

 

[MollyDDD]

Agree.

There is a strange dichotomy here. On the one hand, the way DC is trying to shame the person, indicates a younger man. On the other hand, the guy’s organization would rather point at the higher end of the age spectrum we have.

I always thought the perp was not religious. I am now wondering if he could have been psychotically religious, like, say, Robert Lewis Dear. That would be at odds with the killer’s mental organization, but could explain some words DC used speaking “directly” to him. After all, of this aspect (what happened that day, how the girls were left), we know nothing, and DC, everything. Or else, the killer is the person who is known to loudly profess his religiosity, and inside, is very different.

Like Wardon Norton.

 

[minazoe]

One thing I do find disturbing is the systematic processing of pedophiles and sex assault perpetrators through the legal system..and that our country is literally crawling with these people and look how this KAK guy was just left to his devices..like so many others..the fact that the cops know who half these people are and they get one chance after the next. These sick individuals start at an early age and will commit these acts throughout their lifetimes..
we take them and push them through programs and then we set them up out on their own with halfway houses and RSO status..we eventually find them housing, jobs, welfare benefits, therapy, only to see them re offend and more victims and more innocent children destroyed..all because as a country we cannot reform our legal system
to where the worst kinds of criminals that are the most danger to society are the ones in prison for life, doing hard labor and life sentences..not just the killers, terrorists and robbers...

these people are terrorists to children. The mental health community should have no say on the sentencing or potential rehab of a pedophillac sexual offender, kidnapper, groomer, abuser...or possessor of child *advertiser censored*.

why can't we put our precious children first? our communities , our mothers, fathers, families should not be under this kind of widespread threat to their children..it's so sad. mOO

 

[MollyDDD]

I keep a large supply of salt near my laptop.

 

[MollyDDD]

One thing I do find disturbing is the systematic processing of pedophiles and sex assault perpetrators through the legal system..and that our country is literally crawling with these people and look how this KAK guy was just left to his devices..like so many others..the fact that the cops know who half these people are and they get one chance after the next. These sick individuals start at an early age and will commit these acts throughout their lifetimes..
we take them and push them through programs and then we set them up out on their own with halfway houses and RSO status..we eventually find them housing, jobs, welfare benefits, therapy, only to see them re offend and more victims and more innocent children destroyed..all because as a country we cannot reform our legal system
to where the worst kinds of criminals that are the most danger to society are the ones in prison for life, doing hard labor and life sentences..not just the killers, terrorists and robbers...

these people are terrorists to children. The mental health community should have no say on the sentencing or potential rehab of a pedophillac sexual offender, kidnapper, groomer, abuser...or possessor of child *advertiser censored*.

why can't we put our precious children first? our communities , our mothers, fathers, families should not be under this kind of widespread threat to their children..it's so sad. mOO

You said it sister! I agree 100%. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like things are going to get any better in today’s society. Zero bail and release and Soft on Crime policies…