Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

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maybe all those concealed items were left at the scene. I mean..he got away right? so he could have done anything.. I'm sure he knows where that gun is , for instance..someone else probably has it ...guns get passed around..in the case of JBC..I don't think he is allowed to have a gun so I'm sure whoever did this crime got rid any gun that might have been fired..people tend to hang on to knives for some reason..would not be surprised if he kept that. mOO
 
does anyone know why it was decided that this suspect was not a go?
Daniel Nations no longer a major concern in Delphi murders
https://www.kktv.com › content › news › Nations-no-long...

Feb 14, 2018 — Daniel Nations, the man once considered a person of interest in the Delphi killings of two young girls, is not a major concern for ...

I read several of the old articles and LE investigated but abandoned him.
(Does that mean that there is enough DNA to exclude some suspects?)

I believe I read that he had an alibi. He was with his wife/gf at a Drs appt. Jmo because I would have to search to find where I read that. I do not know/remember if the alibi was confirmed by a 3rd party. all my opinion.
 
oh we loved him..those were the days! he's still a scary violent sociopath though...and a sex offender...the alibi must have been solid..they went to see him in Colorado and when they came back they said no dice..so...
 
I believe I read that he had an alibi. He was with his wife/gf at a Drs appt. Jmo because I would have to search to find where I read that. I do not know/remember if the alibi was confirmed by a 3rd party. all my opinion.

I read several articles about her- this one is MSM

Wife of person of interest in Delphi murders says Daniel Nations watched news coverage | Fox 59

but she sounds not-all-that-sure-and not-all-that-focused. I read an article about him that kind of made my head spin around 720 degrees:

Back in Colorado Springs, Daniel Nations says 'I'm not what they made me out to be'

he basically had a bad childhood/father in prison/mother killed/unpredictable rages/ priors....

(I did not follow the investigation of all these suspects, so now I am digging through some old stuff)
 
does anyone know why it was decided that this suspect was not a go?
Daniel Nations no longer a major concern in Delphi murders
https://www.kktv.com › content › news › Nations-no-long...

Feb 14, 2018 — Daniel Nations, the man once considered a person of interest in the Delphi killings of two young girls, is not a major concern for ...

I read several of the old articles and LE investigated but abandoned him.
(Does that mean that there is enough DNA to exclude some suspects?)
Hmmm, interesting point.
 
I read several articles about her- this one is MSM

Wife of person of interest in Delphi murders says Daniel Nations watched news coverage | Fox 59

but she sounds not-all-that-sure-and not-all-that-focused. I read an article about him that kind of made my head spin around 720 degrees:

Back in Colorado Springs, Daniel Nations says 'I'm not what they made me out to be'

he basically had a bad childhood/father in prison/mother killed/unpredictable rages/ priors....

(I did not follow the investigation of all these suspects, so now I am digging through some old stuff)
Wow, you are a star! Thanks for digging them up.
I follow along and read but don't reply much. I feel like I am crashing now after being so hopeful with KAK news. It's gone quiet and me don't like it.
 
Wow, you are a star! Thanks for digging them up.
I follow along and read but don't reply much. I feel like I am crashing now after being so hopeful with KAK news. It's gone quiet and me don't like it.

I feel as if we all deserve some new insights with the anniversary coming up but I also know there are lots of cases that are solved with DNA 20 or 40 yrs later when some one dies. It may not do any good digging up old stuff, but I think even real detectives "go back over the files" when they get stuck. I am not convinced of DN's alibi esp. since his wife is now estranged and maybe he had a lot of influence over her IMO, but I also wonder if there was enough DNA or DNA divergence to rule him out.
 
assuming that you think BG used weapon(s), what did he do with them?
no one seems to have seen anyone carrying things out (?). wash things off? discard or bury them? no mention of any items found at the crime scene or in the creek. I just started thinking that everyone sees concealed items in the video, but nothing about them after that.

Very interesting question. I am thinking about potential killing instruments, and "no DNA"

Imagine common versions, knifed or strangled,

A) a knife or a machete was used
B) something was used as a garrotte

I am asking myself the same question, times and again, how there would be no DNA left inside the knife wound? If the knife was brought on the killer, what about the body cells...and during murders, shouldn't he be standing close to the girls?

Now, the garrotte. From Wikipedia- "usually a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line". So, if a garrotte, did he bring it in a vacuum-sealed plastic pouch? And if not, then, how was there no DNA left on it to be transferred on the victims?

We discuss the odd shape of BG's upper body, alleging that he was wearing "a kill kit". If he later used it - how come there was no transfer DNA found on the victims? How did he need to seal that kill kit, to leave nothing? (And even if he did...didn't he later have to open the package? Or did he do it all in the river).

I can't imagine that a murder, being a physical interaction, will leave no traces of the murderer's DNA inside a victim's wound.

If the killer works in an operating room, a hospital or a dentist's office, and can sterilize and package the instruments, then, he can get rid of the DNA. But everyone says, "unusual weapon", not a scalpel. (I am even thinking, maybe that hog factory had UV light and some steri/packaging sets? But would a worker there be aware of the newest genetic criminology achievements in 2017?)

So my questions are not only where they were killed and how come no one left own DNA on the weapons, but also, who, in 2017, would be that aware of genetic criminology? Paul Holes, GSK, Barbara Rae-Venter, that case got big in 2018. What does it tell us about the killer? There has to be some very in-depth knowledge of very professional aspects in early 2017.

So, the killer

- is very organized and kills fast and quietly
- thinks in advance and prepares the spot beforehand
- whether it went according to the plan, or not, he regained control soon
- knows about the potential of genetic criminology about 18 months before it becomes mainstream knowledge
- knows how not to leave DNA

And it is not about just DNA. Consider this, GSK case was a huge secret before it exploded. I doubt all policemen knew what Paul Holes and his group were doing.

The question is not "is there DNA left, what is wrong with the DNA?"

The question is, who, in the beginning of 2017, knew enough not to leave any DNA?
 
Wow, you are a star! Thanks for digging them up.
I follow along and read but don't reply much. I feel like I am crashing now after being so hopeful with KAK news. It's gone quiet and me don't like it.

I understand how you feel but don’t give up hope. I still believe the perpetrator will be arrested and charged when we least expect it and hopefully that day won’t be too far in the future. One day today will be the day. My feeling is that things are far from quiet as far as the investigation is concerned but because the case is not an easy one they can’t rush it to ensure everything possible is done to ensure a conviction.
 
assuming that you think BG used weapon(s), what did he do with them?
no one seems to have seen anyone carrying things out (?). wash things off? discard or bury them? no mention of any items found at the crime scene or in the creek. I just started thinking that everyone sees concealed items in the video, but nothing about them after that.

We honestly don't know enough to have answers to these questions. The only thing we know for sure was at the crime scene was the girls. We don't know if any weapons were found. We also don't know if there were witnesses to BG immediately after the killings. Although, I think most of us would agree based on what we know is that there were no witnesses to him leaving.
 
We honestly don't know enough to have answers to these questions. The only thing we know for sure was at the crime scene was the girls. We don't know if any weapons were found. We also don't know if there were witnesses to BG immediately after the killings. Although, I think most of us would agree based on what we know is that there were no witnesses to him leaving.
I agree on all of it but knowing there are no witnesses to him leaving. If by 'leaving' you mean the crime scene, yes, even Sheriff Leazenby has said they don't know where he went out of the crime scene after the murders. But by leaving the general area - walking on the trails, walking on Rt 300, walking the private road along the river or getting in a vehicle - I don't know if I agree with that aspect. BUT we don't where or when the witness or witnesses stated they saw him, per official public statements. Assuming they did see the killer and not someone else.
 
And it is not about just DNA. Consider this, GSK case was a huge secret before it exploded. I doubt all policemen knew what Paul Holes and his group were doing.

The question is not "is there DNA left, what is wrong with the DNA?"

The question is, who, in the beginning of 2017, knew enough not to leave any DNA?
And I can't really say - was he REALLY this good or just VERY lucky?

The premise that he killed very quickly and may have not left his DNA leads me to believe he used a gun. And if used a revolver and not a semi-auto there are no spent shell cases. (Trying to ID a gun using the spent bullet is not as easy as Hollywood would have us believe. A badly mangled bullet, especially a .22, can be impossible to trace to a specific gun. Supposedly, per the expert testimony in the Warren Commission, Lee Harvey Oswald's .38 COULD have been used to kill DPD Officer Tippett, but not a definite match as one example.) Of course, he could have been really good at policing his brass if he used a semi-auto. However, from my hunting experience, I've had difficulty finding a shotgun shell in the fallen leaves so a .22 or even a 9mm might be buried in the leaves out of his sight.

I suppose he could have done like GSK and have one girl tie up the other and then he tied up that girl and went back over the first girl. Zodiac did the same with one of his killings as well. Then he could have killed without concerning himself with one of them running. But while this explains how he could have killed without using a gun, it would seem to leave open the question how he killed w/o leaving DNA. Wearing gloves would seem to minimize the chances, but it is no guarantee. Hair, unless it was blown away prior to being found, could have landed on one of the girls. He still has to use one hand to put on the first glove, leaving touch DNA susceptible to transfer - small chance but still possible.

If he used something other than a gun, I really can't say whether this killer was not very lucky. If he killed without a gun that leaves weapons - knife, strangulation cord, club - where he likely has contact with the victim. If he did that and was aware of the risk of DNA, then maybe he was very good. All in all, we don't know how long he was at the crime scene. I imagine LE does and is not saying. Personal opinion, but I believe that by the time Liberty's father arrived (3:15 PM?) the girls were not only deceased, but the killer was at least halfway to his vehicle if not at his vehicle already.

All of this is gruesome to even think about much less write.
 
I agree on all of it but knowing there are no witnesses to him leaving. If by 'leaving' you mean the crime scene, yes, even Sheriff Leazenby has said they don't know where he went out of the crime scene after the murders. But by leaving the general area - walking on the trails, walking on Rt 300, walking the private road along the river or getting in a vehicle - I don't know if I agree with that aspect. BUT we don't where or when the witness or witnesses stated they saw him, per official public statements. Assuming they did see the killer and not someone else.

I don’t think BG ever left the area. He stayed hidden until there were lots of people searching for the girls. He enjoyed all of the commotion, took photos of the crime scene for his own enjoyment from his hiding place. His presence when he joined the search would have been taken for granted as he is known in the community. I think this person had a police scanner he is issued through his work, prior to the murders and hearing the chatter on it the girls thought he was LE. He wasn’t imo. He also knew if real LE may have been busy at an accident or other call when he forced the girls off the bridge. Is there a way to find out who had police scanners at that time. I know they are not illegal but criminal use of them could happen in a small city.
 
I don’t think BG ever left the area. He stayed hidden until there were lots of people searching for the girls. He enjoyed all of the commotion, took photos of the crime scene for his own enjoyment from his hiding place. His presence when he joined the search would have been taken for granted as he is known in the community. I think this person had a police scanner he is issued through his work, prior to the murders and hearing the chatter on it the girls thought he was LE. He wasn’t imo. He also knew if real LE may have been busy at an accident or other call when he forced the girls off the bridge. Is there a way to find out who had police scanners at that time. I know they are not illegal but criminal use of them could happen in a small city.
I don't believe that is likely. I tend to believe he fled the area as soon as possible. BUT not impossible. If your scenario or one similar is the case, this is one cold and confident killer. And that would dovetail right into the question posed above by @Charlot123 and that is who knows enough about DNA and forensics to not leave DNA at the scene.
 
I don’t think BG ever left the area. He stayed hidden until there were lots of people searching for the girls. He enjoyed all of the commotion, took photos of the crime scene for his own enjoyment from his hiding place. His presence when he joined the search would have been taken for granted as he is known in the community. I think this person had a police scanner he is issued through his work, prior to the murders and hearing the chatter on it the girls thought he was LE. He wasn’t imo. He also knew if real LE may have been busy at an accident or other call when he forced the girls off the bridge. Is there a way to find out who had police scanners at that time. I know they are not illegal but criminal use of them could happen in a small city.

If you recall, they did not find the bodies until the next day, so if BG stayed and joined the search, he would have had to act dumb, hang back and not find anything the first day. IMO. And if he had anything questionable with him- camera, photos, scanner, soiled objects, clothing- he would have had to "disappear" that stuff fast.
 
Very interesting question. I am thinking about potential killing instruments, and "no DNA"

Imagine common versions, knifed or strangled,

A) a knife or a machete was used
B) something was used as a garrotte

I am asking myself the same question, times and again, how there would be no DNA left inside the knife wound? If the knife was brought on the killer, what about the body cells...and during murders, shouldn't he be standing close to the girls?

Now, the garrotte. From Wikipedia- "usually a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line". So, if a garrotte, did he bring it in a vacuum-sealed plastic pouch? And if not, then, how was there no DNA left on it to be transferred on the victims?
We discuss the odd shape of BG's upper body, alleging that he was wearing "a kill kit". If he later used it - how come there was no transfer DNA found on the victims? How did he need to seal that kill kit, to leave nothing? (And even if he did...didn't he later have to open the package? Or did he do it all in the river).

I can't imagine that a murder, being a physical interaction, will leave no traces of the murderer's DNA inside a victim's wound.

If the killer works in an operating room, a hospital or a dentist's office, and can sterilize and package the instruments, then, he can get rid of the DNA. But everyone says, "unusual weapon", not a scalpel. (I am even thinking, maybe that hog factory had UV light and some steri/packaging sets? But would a worker there be aware of the newest genetic criminology achievements in 2017?)

So my questions are not only where they were killed and how come no one left own DNA on the weapons, but also, who, in 2017, would be that aware of genetic criminology? Paul Holes, GSK, Barbara Rae-Venter, that case got big in 2018. What does it tell us about the killer? There has to be some very in-depth knowledge of very professional aspects in early 2017.

So, the killer

- is very organized and kills fast and quietly
- thinks in advance and prepares the spot beforehand
- whether it went according to the plan, or not, he regained control soon
- knows about the potential of genetic criminology about 18 months before it becomes mainstream knowledge
- knows how not to leave DNA

And it is not about just DNA. Consider this, GSK case was a huge secret before it exploded. I doubt all policemen knew what Paul Holes and his group were doing.

The question is not "is there DNA left, what is wrong with the DNA?"

The question is, who, in the beginning of 2017, knew enough not to leave any DNA?
IMO…
1) He could have poisoned or drugged them. Then put them in the water and let them drown.

2) He could have pre dug a hole in the ground, ready and waiting….pushed them in and buried them alive.

3) He could have used a 22 caliper revolver. No sound and no casings left behind.

4) Knife or hatchet throwing.

5) Hanging.
By neck or feet.

And he wore a hat, gloves and a face mask. No prints. No saliva. No blood. A pretty contactless murder, except for fibers.
 
I don’t think BG ever left the area. He stayed hidden until there were lots of people searching for the girls. He enjoyed all of the commotion, took photos of the crime scene for his own enjoyment from his hiding place. His presence when he joined the search would have been taken for granted as he is known in the community. I think this person had a police scanner he is issued through his work, prior to the murders and hearing the chatter on it the girls thought he was LE. He wasn’t imo. He also knew if real LE may have been busy at an accident or other call when he forced the girls off the bridge. Is there a way to find out who had police scanners at that time. I know they are not illegal but criminal use of them could happen in a small city.

yeah I always thought he might have had a scanner..scanner nerd..not so sure now but if you want to really know what's happening a scanner is where it's at..especially if this is what thrills you. sick sick sick. mOO
 
I agree on all of it but knowing there are no witnesses to him leaving. If by 'leaving' you mean the crime scene, yes, even Sheriff Leazenby has said they don't know where he went out of the crime scene after the murders. But by leaving the general area - walking on the trails, walking on Rt 300, walking the private road along the river or getting in a vehicle - I don't know if I agree with that aspect. BUT we don't where or when the witness or witnesses stated they saw him, per official public statements. Assuming they did see the killer and not someone else.
If LE didn’t cancel the search dogs, could have that provided them with any other clues?
 
I don't know why but I just feel like the first place you would go would be the bridge and you'd go across and then down that hill so you could look for the girls under and around the bridge area..like instinctively if you are looking for girls lost and possibly hurt and out of earshot.
it's odd to me they were not found that night and makes me question what all went on during the night and one of the girls was possibly taken away and returned . Taken away where? I don't know...and how would he dare bring her back? but I still have to question everything that happened that night..because we just don't know..
but I definitely think he was on the scene..maybe he left and came back and then he left and came back again..
if you came in through the cemetery you could avoid the bridge altogether correct? was the park under surveillance through the night?

where did he find the time to install all of his signatures and staging and be able to enjoy it all.. ?

I don't trust any of the info we have, not because the cops lie to us , but they really cannot tell us the details, the details are too important.. the whole case has gone dark. mOO
 
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