Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[sunshineray]

I think they were forced to go with the killer...

Yes, Anna Williams, Abby's Mom, told Gray Hughes on the audio Libby captured was the conversation about the approaching BG having a gun. Then the sound of a *click* was described to her by LE as the sound of that gun being clicked.

Sounds to me, IMO, the girls were forced down the hill at gunpoint.

Gun talk: all paraphrasing GH on video linked below.

The piece of clothing that was seen on early video release and then edited out was part of Abby's clothing.

Abby looks up at Libby, who is recording, and says "He's right behind me, isn't he?"

Abby hurries to where Libby is.

The girls are discussing which way to go. It appears they were talking about two ways to go but said it was hard to hear the audio.

Abby says "Is that a gun? He's got a gun."

BG says "Hey" (probably supposed to be "Guys"?)

Libby then says "Hmmm"

BG says "Down the hill" and then the sound of a gun cocking is heard.

Starts around 48:00 min mark, gun at 51:00 min mark

 

[scapa]

Interesting idea that has never occurred to me!

Or even "The guy's down the hill..."

Might explain some of the tonal and metrical oddness of that clip.

Very interesting indeed.

 

[Lavender Moon]

I think "Guys" refers to Abby and Libby.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

This is my theory as to why its unlikely he just happened to enter the frame: LE have told us that LG was a hero and it was amazing she had the presence of mind to begin filming. If this was happenstance, she wouldn't be hailed a hero. THat is 43 seconds of video. That's not a coincidence in my view. That's her being clever, and possibly making it *look* like she was only capturing Abby whilst collecting the suspect at the same time.

Bolded by me for reference.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with this comment.
Regardless if Libby did or did not film BG on purpose, IMHO she is still a hero for doing it.

ETA: It, the video, has been a blessing in so many ways. And I personally feel that if the video wasn’t captured the case wouldn’t have progressed as far as it has. And although it has been 5 years, we still don’t know what LE has on BG. But we do know BG’s approx height and weight. We know that’s he had a kill kit of some kind inside of his jacket. We know what is race is (or there about). We know what his voice sounds like. And more.

 

[photographer4]

Bolded by me for reference.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with this comment.
Regardless if Libby did or did not film BG on purpose, IMHO she is still a hero for doing it.

ETA: It, the video, has been a blessing in so many ways. And I personally feel that if the video wasn’t captured the case wouldn’t have progressed as far as it has. And although it has been 5 years, we still don’t know what LE has on BG. But we do know BG’s approx height and weight. We know that’s he had a kill kit of some kind inside of his jacket. We know what is race is (or there about). We know what his voice sounds like. And more.

I totally see your point on this, and am glad you shared it. I just feel that the hero title has to have particular meaning for LE for some reason. You'd be a hero if you did something intentionally. Eg: a fire happens and you run in and rescue the occupants. That is heroic because you've intentionally risked your own safety to do so. Vs just passively capturing a person on a video in the background. LE has really made sure to tell us she was a hero. That might be semantics sure, but I like to think it means she had sensed something or had reason to think something was up with BG and she went out of her way to capture him as best she could, as safely as possible for her own reasons. Either way, both kids are heroic in my view. I love this group - always a fantastic discussion!

 

[AC4RD]

... LE has really made sure to tell us she was a hero. That might be semantics sure, but I like to think it means she had sensed something or had reason to think something was up with BG and she went out of her way to capture him as best she could, ...

I agree, about Libby's using her video capture--I believe that Libby knew there was danger in the air and she acted--heroically, yes--to get the video. Poor thing probably had no clue how MUCH danger BG was, but IMO she knew he was danger.

As for "just semantics," semantics not only define our entire world but they define how we perceive it; language is central to human existence! Linguistic relativity - Wikipedia

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Yes, Anna Williams, Abby's Mom, told Gray Hughes on the audio Libby captured was the conversation about the approaching BG having a gun. Then the sound of a *click* was described to her by LE as the sound of that gun being clicked.

Anna Williams didn't tell Gray this. Someone else talked to Anna Williams, and says this is what Anna told them.

Gray explains this at 43:21 in the clip you shared.

 

[margarita25]

BBM:

Kegan Kline: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

The Instagram page used by anthony_shots is still active, but the account is privatized.

The page says it has 11 posts, 77 followers and was following 343.

“new account, follow meAlaska born, Indiana raised. Travel living. LA NY business travel. ,” it reads.

View attachment 326269

 

[Deathsgrandaughter]

Anna Williams didn't tell Gray this. Someone else talked to Anna Williams, and says this is what Anna told them.

Gray explains this at 43:21 in the clip you shared.

I know this is a third hand description of the video, but it increases in plausibility when he says the video ends after that, which has been confirmed now. MOO

 

[Countem]

5 Years After Murders Of Abigail Williams And Liberty German In Indiana, Court Documents Uncover Previously-Unknown Details

BBM

Police previously shared a short clip – only one and a half seconds of the recording that Libby made – in which a man is heard saying, “Down the hill.”

But CNN has learned the video is actually 45 seconds long. It is not clear what it shows.

There are also new details about the timeline of the murders – and how quickly it all may have happened. The girls were dropped off at the trial at 1:35 p.m., and 2:07 p.m., Libby shot some pictures and posted two images to Snapchat.

Six minutes later was when Libby shot the video showing a man in close proximity. The girls’ bodies were found the next day.

Here is a link to the original CNN story (video only).

Video: New details in unsolved Delphi, Indiana, killings uncovered - CNN Video

 

[BNA]

MOO.... No way KAK was physically fit enough at any time in the last decade to be able to navigate rough, woodsy terrain like that found in the area of this crime. I see no way that he could possibly be our perp.

BBM:

.

 

[BigTexas]

Never underestimate what a person can do if he is experiencing a big rush of adrenaline. It is possible.

IMO

 

[AC4RD]

MOO.... No way KAK was physically fit enough at any time in the last decade to be able to navigate rough, woodsy terrain
.

JMO: I think you meant "in the last decade" as hyperbole, but have you seen the younger photos of him? The arrest photo shows a LOT of weight gain from 2018 and an earlier photo, see link:
https://kuzenski.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/kak-sizes-01.jpg

 

[somequestions]

I totally see your point on this, and am glad you shared it. I just feel that the hero title has to have particular meaning for LE for some reason. You'd be a hero if you did something intentionally. Eg: a fire happens and you run in and rescue the occupants. That is heroic because you've intentionally risked your own safety to do so. Vs just passively capturing a person on a video in the background. LE has really made sure to tell us she was a hero. That might be semantics sure, but I like to think it means she had sensed something or had reason to think something was up with BG and she went out of her way to capture him as best she could, as safely as possible for her own reasons. Either way, both kids are heroic in my view. I love this group - always a fantastic discussion!

I think getting the video was heroic and smart.

I could be completely wrong about what I think about the police investigation at this point, but I can only base everything off what I think. At the beginning the video was seen as a boon to the investigation. I think police gave up on it too quickly before turning to sketches. I still cannot "see" a young man aged 18-40 in the video.

This case is a great example of what is known as situational awareness. Unfortunately, the video is too grainy and pixelated to provide a detailed description of the person on the bridge. But maybe Libby got enough of him that someday someone recognizes his walk, body type, or voice.

I do not know how this case will turn out. But the lesson here is that two young teenage girls were aware of their surroundings. Be aware of your surroundings and practice situational awareness. In the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, it may end up solving their own murders.

 

[Yemelyan]

I've gone back to read earlier posts and found it curious that A and L didn't go shopping after making the extra money from doing the filing paperwork. Maybe they planned to go later after exploring the trails. Wasn't it Libby's gramma that said she would take them shopping? Moo

The grandma did say she would take them shopping, but she worked from home and apparently her workday wasn't over yet. The implication from family interviews is that the shopping trip would have been an option for later that afternoon/evening.

 

[crussell821]

MOO.... No way KAK was physically fit enough at any time in the last decade to be able to navigate rough, woodsy terrain like that found in the area of this crime. I see no way that he could possibly be our perp.

.

I keep seeing some version of this, but as a fellow obese person, I’m able to do lots more physical activity than people assume. And he’s quite a bit younger than me. MOO

 

[TL4S]

I'm kind of leaning towards 2:07 being the actual time L took A's photo and posted it to SC, then BG entering onto the north side of the bridge soon after (I'm just not feeling the south end U-turn scenario, but admit I could be very wrong).

If he got on within a minute or so of that photo and crossed at a quicker pace than they did, I think the girls would know he was coming up behind them before they even got to the south end. And I'm almost certain he likely did cross faster. Remember, it took the girls a half hour to walk 1800 feet from drop-off spot to SC photo location. They were dawdling. They could have seen him earlier on the trail, or he could have been shouting at them from the bridge, catching up to them quickly, whatever. So when L got to the end, she turned around and started the video because they were already creeped out.

Just going by what people who have crossed the bridge report, it takes about 5 minutes at an average pace, so 43 seconds of video means BG likely was on the last 1/5 of the bridge. He would have been in view well before that, imo, so to me, that supports the idea that L purposefully took the video as he approached vs. happenstance captured him in the background as A talks about him being behind her. Jmo.

 

[JnRyan]

JMO: I think you meant "in the last decade" as hyperbole, but have you seen the younger photos of him? The arrest photo shows a LOT of weight gain from 2018 and an earlier photo, see link:
https://kuzenski.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/kak-sizes-01.jpg

I look at those two photos - on the left and in the middle - and it reminds me of a guy who came out for our football team when I was in HS. In fact this guy probably had a larger girth than those photos of KAK. I remember being on the track during spring conditioning. He was the fastest lineman and could out sprint some of our RB's and WR's. He ended up hurting his knee in an event unrelated to football and consequently didn't make the team. Years later my HS had an offensive tackle that weighed over 270# and he was also a state champion tennis player. He ended up in the NFL eventually. I still don't think KAK did it, but I've learned to never underestimate the big man.

 

[kai]

Maybe someone behind the "Anthony shots" profile posted a picture on social media from the bridge area and the girls recognized the area and went to see if he was still there. It might not have been a planned meeting, but more of a spontaneous "let's go see and look for him" thing.
I previously thought the girls posted a picture on SM and BG saw it and showed up, but I think the timeline is too tight now for that.

 

[magnetic]

Bolded by me for reference.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with this comment.
Regardless if Libby did or did not film BG on purpose, IMHO she is still a hero for doing it.

ETA: It, the video, has been a blessing in so many ways. And I personally feel that if the video wasn’t captured the case wouldn’t have progressed as far as it has. And although it has been 5 years, we still don’t know what LE has on BG. But we do know BG’s approx height and weight. We know that’s he had a kill kit of some kind inside of his jacket. We know what is race is (or there about). We know what his voice sounds like. And more.

I agree it has been a blessing, at the very least we can exclude at least 1/2 the population, BG is not a female. If no audio or video I would honestly think some teens did something to the girls. Male or female teens or both. I would really be thinking that.