Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[Yemelyan]

@Yemelyan Thank you! I had not seen that interview. Yes, it does make it sound rather routing .

But then he'd do that anyway, wouldn't he?

Yeah, I believe it relates to the fact that the case is evidently "complex," to use LE's word. It is routine, IMO, to go over case files before trial and look for holes, so to speak, that could be exploited by the defense. What's not routine is that there are, by now, over 70,000 tips in this case. So it's going to need quite a lot of work and I think they are trying not to do anything that would jeopardize the case at trial. But, clearly, Carter was thinking about the investigators needing to do this task all the way back in 2019, if not earlier. In the interview, right before the section I quoted, he even said, "I need to talk about this more."

 

[Tiff23fr]

If I understood correctly, Carter will be interviewed on this NewsNationNow segment tonight. I am not sure if it is an interview clip we have already seen or not.

 

[monkeyboy13]

If I understood correctly, Carter will be interviewed on this NewsNationNow segment tonight. I am not sure if it is an interview clip we have already seen or not.

Video is in this link:

'We'll find them': Delphi murders will be solved, Indiana police superintendent says

 

[Tiff23fr]

Video is in this link:

'We'll find them': Delphi murders will be solved, Indiana police superintendent says

I find this interesting.

From Transcript in linked article above:

Rich McHugh
The audio that you released, says “guys down the hill.” Does “guys” and “down the hill” come right next to each other in the original recording?

Supt. Doug Carter
Again, there’s speculation about what that means. What was actually said? Who said it? Was it connected? Was it the same as the same voice? And again, that’s an investigative component of this and I’m not worthy to discuss it.

 

[Tiff23fr]

McHugh gets the sense they are closing in and have zeroed in on a person/persons. This is his opinion based on his interview with Carter. He stated FBI is still involved.

 

[Silver_produce0]

I’m trying not to get my hopes but there I go getting my hopes up. Two things caught my eye, in the exchanges below, italics for my emphasis. First, the addition of “at least publicly”. Just made me kind of double take. Second, saying that they learned a tremendous amount from the fake profile tips. Who knows - it could be bluster. But he didn’t have to say it, especially after saying he didn’t want to discuss any evidence.

Rich McHugh
In the past, you have said we have likely interviewed the killer. Do you still think that?

Supt. Doug Carter
I think that we’re not going to singularly identify anyone right now, at least publicly. The detectives that have been assigned to this task force have talked to hundreds if not thousands of people. And again, one day we’ll be able to tell you why we did that and who did it.

Rich McHugh
In December, he came out and said, you’re asked for the public’s help and saying, anybody who’s communicated with this Anthony Shots, profile on social media, please get in contact. Did Abby and Libby communicate with this profile?

Supt. Doug Carter
I’m not going to talk about that. But I am going to say that we learned a tremendous amount to that particular investigative course.

 

[ReadySet]

During DC's interview with Rich McHugh, on NewsNationNow, he said something to the effect (in reference to getting that last piece of the puzzle) that they would then need 60 more LEOs to go back through early tips, or every tip. Something to that effect.

 

[Marzipan]

Video is in this link:

'We'll find them': Delphi murders will be solved, Indiana police superintendent says

There sure is a lot to unpack in that one interview. Too much for my brain on a Monday night for sure. He goes all over the place, like this is some sort of international ring. I wonder if this will solve the murder of Abby and Libby. Or is it like when you start cleaning your kitchen but then you find things in your kitchen that you have to put away in other parts of your home and eventually you’ve cleaned some of every room but your kitchen still looks the same.

 

[DeDee]

I think something like that is entirely possible in terms of them bumping into BG early on at the trailhead and something happening between them.

I am not in the KAK is BG camp though, I just don’t see it personally. The guy is a creepy monster no doubts but I don’t think he is this creepy monster.

I am almost 30 years old and have no clue how I would react to someone aiming a deadly weapon at me nevermind how I would have reacted at 13-14 years old. The initial manipulation of them to do what he wanted - if a weapon was definitely involved - wouldn’t have been overly difficult imo.

I understand the hesitancy in declaring KAK as BG. BG looks shorter and not as hefty but we don't know how he looked in 2017, or at least, I don't. My latest suspect was a professional within the community with a respected career who's the opposite of KAK. KAK, being the last one to communicate with Libby, changes that.

Why was only KAK arrested when investigators know another party accessed the Dropbox file? Does this mean there was an instant messaging discussion between users?

Dropbox brings files together in one central place by creating a special folder on the user's computer. The contents of these folders are synchronized to Dropbox's servers and to other computers and devices where the user has installed Dropbox, keeping the same files up-to-date on all devices.

Dropbox's apps offer an automatic photo uploading feature, allowing users to automatically upload photos or videos from cameras, tablets, SD cards, or smartphones to a dedicated "Camera Uploads" folder in their Dropbox. Users are given 500 megabytes of extra space for uploading their first photo, and are given up to 3 gigabytes of extra space if users continue using the method for more photos.[53]

Users have devised a number of uses for and mashups of the technology that expand Dropbox's functionality. These include: sending files to a Dropbox via Gmail; using Dropbox to sync instant messaging chat logs; BitTorrent management; password management; remote application launching and system monitoring; and as a free web hosting service.[129]
Source: wiki

"Investigators also found a discussion of sharing links with child *advertiser censored* files on Dropbox with another party who is not identified in court documents."

Link from DEC 7, 2021
Family of girl, 13, slain in ‘Snapchat murder’ welcome probe into 'catfish'
.

 

[photographer4]

I’m trying not to get my hopes but there I go getting my hopes up. Two things caught my eye, in the exchanges below, italics for my emphasis. First, the addition of “at least publicly”. Just made me kind of double take. Second, saying that they learned a tremendous amount from the fake profile tips. Who knows - it could be bluster. But he didn’t have to say it, especially after saying he didn’t want to discuss any evidence.

Rich McHugh
In the past, you have said we have likely interviewed the killer. Do you still think that?

Supt. Doug Carter
I think that we’re not going to singularly identify anyone right now, at least publicly. The detectives that have been assigned to this task force have talked to hundreds if not thousands of people. And again, one day we’ll be able to tell you why we did that and who did it.

Rich McHugh
In December, he came out and said, you’re asked for the public’s help and saying, anybody who’s communicated with this Anthony Shots, profile on social media, please get in contact. Did Abby and Libby communicate with this profile?

Supt. Doug Carter
I’m not going to talk about that. But I am going to say that we learned a tremendous amount to that particular investigative course.

I’m trying not to get my hopes but there I go getting my hopes up. Two things caught my eye, in the exchanges below, italics for my emphasis. First, the addition of “at least publicly”. Just made me kind of double take. Second, saying that they learned a tremendous amount from the fake profile tips. Who knows - it could be bluster. But he didn’t have to say it, especially after saying he didn’t want to discuss any evidence.

Rich McHugh
In the past, you have said we have likely interviewed the killer. Do you still think that?

Supt. Doug Carter
I think that we’re not going to singularly identify anyone right now, at least publicly. The detectives that have been assigned to this task force have talked to hundreds if not thousands of people. And again, one day we’ll be able to tell you why we did that and who did it.

Rich McHugh
In December, he came out and said, you’re asked for the public’s help and saying, anybody who’s communicated with this Anthony Shots, profile on social media, please get in contact. Did Abby and Libby communicate with this profile?

Supt. Doug Carter
I’m not going to talk about that. But I am going to say that we learned a tremendous amount to that particular investigative course.

Sure sounds like they have someone in mind to me based on this interview

 

[paraphrase]

I find this interesting.

From Transcript in linked article above:

Rich McHugh
The audio that you released, says “guys down the hill.” Does “guys” and “down the hill” come right next to each other in the original recording?

Supt. Doug Carter
Again, there’s speculation about what that means. What was actually said? Who said it? Was it connected? Was it the same as the same voice? And again, that’s an investigative component of this and I’m not worthy to discuss it.

I brought this up a few months ago, wondering if Libby's phone continued to record, after the murder, and the killer was looking for the phone. And wondering if either "...guys..." and/or "...down the hill..." might actually be a short clip of the suspect(s) looking for the phone? Either after the murder, or later, during the search? Just thinking out loud. moo

 

[Yemelyan]

Video is in this link:

'We'll find them': Delphi murders will be solved, Indiana police superintendent says

Here's an interesting piece of the interview from Carter, he lists the people who are working on the investigation, two from Carroll County Sheriff's Office and the rest from ISP (I know there are some here who wondered who exactly from the ISP was still working on the case, and now we know):

"Please talk about those those folks that are up there continuing to do this work. The sheriff and Tony and Jerry Holman and David Vito and J. Harper. And we have so many other people from our laboratory personnel that are so committed to this. Intelligence people that deal with it, work on it every single day."

 

[Jerrod]

During DC's interview with Rich McHugh, on NewsNationNow, he said something to the effect (in reference to getting that last piece of the puzzle) that they would then need 60 more LEOs to go back through early tips, or every tip. Something to that effect.

July 17, 2017

“We are getting closer every day. I know that is cliché but we are,” said Sgt. Holeman.

_________________________________________________________

February 14, 2022

"I think we’re closer every day. We’re closer every single day. The tips keep coming. Once that completes itself, then we’re going to have to assign another 60 or 80 detectives to this and go back through every single lead that we’ve ever gotten." ~ Supt. Doug Carter

 

[photographer4]

I brought this up a few months ago, wondering if Libby's phone continued to record, after the murder, and the killer was looking for the phone. And wondering if either "...guys..." and/or "...down the hill..." might actually be a short clip of the suspect(s) looking for the phone? Either after the murder, or later, during the search? Just thinking out loud. moo

If that’s the case imagine the killer crapping himself when he first can’t find it and has to get out of there and secondly when it’s aired on tv??

 

[mom2chloe]

I understand the hesitancy in declaring KAK as BG. BG looks shorter and not as hefty but we don't know how he looked in 2017, or at least, I don't. My latest suspect was a professional within the community with a respected career who's the opposite of KAK. KAK, being the last one to communicate with Libby, changes that.

Why was only KAK arrested when investigators know another party accessed the Dropbox file? Does this mean there was an instant messaging discussion between users?



"Investigators also found a discussion of sharing links with child *advertiser censored* files on Dropbox with another party who is not identified in court documents."

Link from DEC 7, 2021
Family of girl, 13, slain in ‘Snapchat murder’ welcome probe into 'catfish'
.

I would like to think that maybe they’re making progress in the way of using the information they have to lure other predators out into the open. Obviously once they outed the ashots profile the cat was out of the bag but what they discovered in the meantime to could leads to lots of information and indictments. Fingers crossed because otherwise I don’t understand wth they’ve been waiting on. IMO

 

[cujenn81]

I find this interesting.

From Transcript in linked article above:

Rich McHugh
The audio that you released, says “guys down the hill.” Does “guys” and “down the hill” come right next to each other in the original recording?

Supt. Doug Carter
Again, there’s speculation about what that means. What was actually said? Who said it? Was it connected? Was it the same as the same voice? And again, that’s an investigative component of this and I’m not worthy to discuss it.

See — this is a prime example of what frustrates me about how this case has been, and continues to be, handled.

At the April 2019 press conference, Doug Carter introduced the updated audio clip with ”guys” added and prefaced the release by emphasizing the following:

"We're releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind, the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is not two different people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

Today, he just gives us more of the same doublespeak.

Is it one voice? Is it two?
Welllll… yes, no, maybe so.

We know so much about this guy, and we know you want to know what we know. Maybe one day we’ll tell you, but that day is not today! So, ninny ninny boo boo. We know something you don’t know.

That about sums up how I feel every time they make such bold claims and fail to back them up.

 

[paraphrase]

Here's an interesting piece of the interview from Carter, he lists the people who are working on the investigation, two from Carroll County Sheriff's Office and the rest from ISP (I know there are some here who wondered who exactly from the ISP was still working on the case, and now we know):

"Please talk about those those folks that are up there continuing to do this work. The sheriff and Tony and Jerry Holman and David Vito and J. Harper. And we have so many other people from our laboratory personnel that are so committed to this. Intelligence people that deal with it, work on it every single day."

In my prior, limited, career experience working in a law firm, child *advertiser censored* evidence could only be handled by a few specialized state troopers out of a specialized unit. These troopers had to receive psychological testing every 6 months, due to the trauma of what they witness. And if I remember correctly, they would only be assigned to that unit for a certain amount of years. Tough job, for sure.
Because there are laws preventing any dissemination or possession of child *advertiser censored*, very few people were involved with the evidence. Defense attorneys were not allowed to possess evidence, it was an issue with juries, etc. Just throwing my recollection out there.

 

[MistyWaters]

The FBI would be involved, but they wouldn't necessarily be in charge, I don't think. And if they were involved, we wouldn't necessarily hear about it.

I mean, the only things I can think of that would need that much after-arrest support would be child *advertiser censored*, sex trafficking, gun running, and drugs, and we haven't seen any evidence of the others.

ETA: I guess maybe if they identified a prolific serial killer, maybe?

Maybe I’m wrong but I thought a county sheriff’s office is in charge of crimes occurring within their county only? It’s difficult to imagine a child *advertiser censored* ring or a profiling serial killer operating solely in Carroll County.

 

[Tiff23fr]

At 32:49 is Carter’s virtual live from tonight’s episode.
Notes:
Person responsible has not reached out to investigators directly
Everything is strategic and calculated in approach
They do have evidence not released
There are not two suspects
Posting his sketch comments per the transcript:
36:46
THIS IS IS VERY STRATEGIC. AND
36:49
I REALLY BELIEVE MARNI THAT
36:52
EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO TAKE
36:53
BOTH OF THOSE SKETCHES.
36:53
REMEMBER, SKETCH IS NOT A
36:54
PHOTOGRAPH. IT WILL TAKE BOTH
36:57
OF THOSE SKETCHES AND WE'LL
36:58
PUT THEM TOGETHER. AND THEN
37:00
REMOVE THEM AND THE KILLER
37:01
WILL BE BEHIND THEM. OF THAT.
37:04
>> SORRY, GO AHEAD. ACTUALLY,
37:10
I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK, IS
37:11
THE SKETCH. HOW DOES THE
37:12
PUBLIC RECEIVE THIS
37:12
INFORMATION IS THE SKETCH, THE
37:14
ULTIMATE SUSPECT, A
37:15
COMBINATION OF THESE 2 IMAGES
37:16
PUT ON THIS BODY THAT WE'RE
37:17
SEEING ON SCREEN RIGHT NOW.
37:22
>> YES, I BELIEVE I I BELIEVE
37:23
THAT WILL BE ABLE TO PUT THE 2
37:24
OF THEM TOGETHER AND DROP TO
37:28
DROP THE SKETCH AND THAT WILL
37:28
BE THAT WILL BE THE PERSON
37:30
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF
37:30
ABBY AND LIBBY.

 

[paraphrase]

If that’s the case imagine the killer crapping himself when he first can’t find it and has to get out of there and secondly when it’s aired on tv??

Right? Remember when Doug Carter said, "We have a witness. You made mistakes."
That would definitely be a big mistake. Could searchers/witnesses have seen a man searching on his own, appearing to look for something? I also remember Carter saying that nobody saw him leave. Because he was looking for the phone? Was he there the whole time? Did he just blend in with the search party? moo