Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

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Marzipan said:
There sure is a lot to unpack in that one interview. Too much for my brain on a Monday night for sure. He goes all over the place, like this is some sort of international ring. I wonder if this will solve the murder of Abby and Libby. Or is it like when you start cleaning your kitchen but then you find things in your kitchen that you have to put away in other parts of your home and eventually you’ve cleaned some of every room but your kitchen still looks the same.
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Been there, done that. :p
 
I don't know if what I remember is it or not but the news has made me question somethings.

I remember early on that DN worked different places. He was at one time working for a woman. Her son loaned him a truck, iirc, to sleep under the bridge near her home for a few days? Does anyone remember it fully? TIA Just trying to connect a group at this point.
 
Ya know what just occurred to me? The searchers didn't know what they had stumbled on right? I assume this means the area where they found the girls was probably not super gory or weird at a glance. Somehow I assume this means lack of blood evident at the scene to the searchers. Maybe the kids were partially covered up hiding any blood that may have been there. Or maybe they were choked or could their necks have been broken? Or even more odd a poison of some kind or forced overdose of something?

Don't have any idea why one would do any of these things and am aware HLN over the weekend referenced an edged weapons for some reason. But how did the searchers who found them not know what they had stumbled on immediately? It couldn't have been blood everywhere or they'd have known right away.
 
paraphrase said:
Right? Remember when Doug Carter said, "We have a witness. You made mistakes."
That would definitely be a big mistake. Could searchers/witnesses have seen a man searching on his own, appearing to look for something? I also remember Carter saying that nobody saw him leave. Because he was looking for the phone? Was he there the whole time? Did he just blend in with the search party? moo
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Ive made this observation before, it seems like the easiest thing would be to blend with the searchers. Especially if he didn’t have time to leave. Maybe he couldn’t leave because people showed up searching
 
iamnotagolem said:
Ive made this observation before, it seems like the easiest thing would be to blend with the searchers. Especially if he didn’t have time to leave. Maybe he couldn’t leave because people showed up searching
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If he blended in with searchers then we can assume he didn't have blood on his clothes etc. And that is possible to me since searchers didn't immediately know what they had stumbled on when they found the kids. It could not have been a gory bloody scene or they'd have known immediately what had happened. I don't know who declared the kids deceased or who was present when that happened. I don't know how they determined this vs just sleeping. Maybe they tried to wake them (saying names or shaking them) and then checked for a pulse. I don't know but if they didn't immediately realise they had entered into a fresh crime scene then the scene couldn't have made it that obvious.
 
LE have said everyone on YOuTube etc has it wrong and no one is correct on how the girls ended up where they were found. We have assumed down the hill was said at the end of the bridge for obvious reasons. We have assumed the perp and kids would have gotten wet in the creek crossing if they ran across right? What if that's not how they got across? Any chance he used a float of some kind to take them across? Maybe he used a float to get out the general area too. Who knows. This case keeps me up at night. I can't imagine what thinking about it must do to the families and friends of the kids or the LE who work on it every day.
 
photographer4 said:
Ya know what just occurred to me? The searchers didn't know what they had stumbled on right? I assume this means the area where they found the girls was probably not super gory or weird at a glance. Somehow I assume this means lack of blood evident at the scene to the searchers. Maybe the kids were partially covered up hiding any blood that may have been there. Or maybe they were choked or could their necks have been broken? Or even more odd a poison of some kind or forced overdose of something?

Don't have any idea why one would do any of these things and am aware HLN over the weekend referenced an edged weapons for some reason. But how did the searchers who found them not know what they had stumbled on immediately? It couldn't have been blood everywhere or they'd have known right away.
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I think that when searchers initially found the girls, it was not evident at first glance that a crime had happened. Also, if the searchers thought they were looking for girls who had been out in the cold all night, your brain will try to fit what you see into that scenario. You might not be able to process what you actually see, if your brain is fixed on another scenario. I agree that it could not have been a very bloody crime scene. I think the girls might just have been lying there as if they we sleeping, and only at close examination you would discover that a crime had happened. I think this is part of the signatures. Maybe it was a violent crime, but after the fact the killer spend time to make it look like something else. Maybe this is also why the crime scene is referred to as “odd”, because with what had happened to the girls, how they were killed, you would expect the crime scene to look different?
 
Update:

Niner said:
Tuesday, February 15th:
*Modification Hearing (@ 11am CT) – IN – 13 year old (August, 19, 2019 & goes back a year, Flora) - *Mark Joseph Edward Sandifur (36/now 38) arrested & charged (8/21/19) with 3 counts Level 4 felony charges of child molesting & 1 count of Level 1 felony charge of child molesting. Plead not guilty. $100K Surety bond (10% cash). Bond posted by mother & released (9/13/19).
Warrant out for arrested (11/18/21) for violation of probation. Warrant for arrest served (11/23/21) & is in custody.
Trial was set to start on 7/26/21 (thru 7/28/21), but plead guilty on 5/18/21. Sentenced (6/2/21) to 4 years of probation.
Court info from 8/23/19 thru 11/23/21 reference post #782 here:
IN - Mark Sandifur, charged with child molesting, Flora, 28 Aug 2019
11/29/21 Update: Initial hearing re petition to revoke. Order on 1st & 2nd petition for revocation of probation. Evidentiary hearing is set for 1/14/22 @ 10:30am. Motion filed: Verified Motion to Reduce Bond filed by Sandifur. Order set for hearing on 12/21/21. Motion for continuance re bond hearing. Bond hearing motion for continuance-granted. Originally hearing on 12/21/21 is rescheduled to 12/27/21 @ 10:30am.
1/3/22 Update: Modification hearing originally scheduled on 1/14/22 was rescheduled to 2/15/22 @ 11am.
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We need to be careful with MS; here's what he pleaded to:

06/02/2021 = Judgment
Judicial Officer: Diener, Benjamin A.
01. 35-42-4-3(a)/F1: Child Molesting where def. is at least 21 years of age
• Dismissed with Prejudice
02. 35-42-4-3(b)/F4: Child Molesting-Fondling or touching with child under 14
• Dismissed with Prejudice
03. 35-42-4-3(b)/F4: Child Molesting-Fondling or touching with child under 14
• Dismissed with Prejudice

04. 35-46-1-4(a)(1)/F6: Neglect of a Dependent def. places dependent in situation that endangers the dep
• Plea by Agreement
05. 35-44.1-2-2(a)(3)/F6: Obstruction of Justice def. knowingly or intentionally in an official proceedi
• Plea by Agreement
 
The way I heard it, the bodies were spotted from across the creek. Most searchers are warned ahead of time, if they see something, FIRST, CALL back to central command and DO NOT APPROACH THEM yourself... that's for an official/LE to do.

My gut feeling is the 2 that initially spotted what they thought were the girls on the other side of the creek (north side as seen from the south side), probably did not go across the creek themselves. They probably called to the command center and were asked their exact location, are the girls moving?, etc. Then they were probably TOLD NOT TO MOVE... and that others/LE trained would have then gone to the spot from the north side of the creek to actually discover them close up.

In many cases with organized searches, the outcome is expected to be bad... with a high chance the victim's death resulting from a criminal act.. therefore better be sure not to contaminate the area with lay people trampling around all over the crime scene.

My gut tells me since the 2nd search was better organized the next day, that they briefed all searches as to what they were to do and what they were not to do if they saw anything unusual.

They should CALL or walkie talkie FIRST.. And Do not move in on your own. Even if the girls had a terrible accident, like falling off the bridge as they had probably been suspected of happening, you don't want lay people dangerously wading out into the creek to rescue someone.. CALL FIRST.. Then trained LE and/or EMTs, etc. would be dispatched quickly from command center.

Bottom line: I don't think the crime scene was compromised by any of the official search team. Just my opinion.
 
Tealgrove said:
Did anyone catch this?

Doug Carter says “ we’ll meet THEM soon.

THEM - that’s plural.

Is that a slip?

It’s got me thinking…..again.
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I read the transcript of the interview first and saw this and thought hmmm. Then I watched the video and I didn't hear "them" I heard a folksy "they'll meet 'im" - it definitely wasn't a clearly articulated "him" but it wasn't "them" either.

The transcript did make some other mistakes, like "J. Harper" when it's actually "Jay Harper," and there were a few others I noticed.
 
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The other thing that really bugs me is that even though everything looks like BG trapped them on the south end of the bridge then forced them down the gravely embankment at the end of the RR tracks DOWN THE HILL there, I still cannot wrap my head around him being able to cross that creek with either 1 or 2 girls in his arm, up the other bank and them not being able to get away from him. At that point, the girls knew he was not LE or a pissed off property owner but they knew this was a dangerous predator.

Maybe they did break away for a moment but then he caught up and caught one of them after they slipped on the slick embankment? That forced the other one to come back to defend her friend.

Those poor, poor girls. I just want to mess that guy up really really badly.
 
Tealgrove said:
Did anyone catch this?

Doug Carter says “ we’ll meet THEM soon.
THEM - that’s plural.
.
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It's a great thought, but 'they' isn't just plural now. For ten years or more, use of a plural pronoun for a single person has been spreading.

"If a camper sees a snake, they should avoid approaching it."

It sounds truly horrible to me, but languages get simpler over time--the way Latin morphed into Italian and other languages. This is one change that is already common, like the use of "hopefully" in the sense of "it is to be hoped." And turning transitive verbs into intransitives (e.g., "the software launches next week" instead of "the software will be launched next week.") Standard spoken English has changed a great deal, IMO, in the last 50 years. Don't even get me started on the loss of the subjunctive. :-/
 
Justice101 said:
The other thing that really bugs me is that even though everything looks like BG trapped them on the south end of the bridge then forced them down the gravely embankment at the end of the RR tracks DOWN THE HILL there, I still cannot wrap my head around him being able to cross that creek with either 1 or 2 girls in his arm, up the other bank and them not being able to get away from him. At that point, the girls knew he was not LE or a pissed off property owner but they knew this was a dangerous predator.

Maybe they did break away for a moment but then he caught up and caught one of them after they slipped on the slick embankment? That forced the other one to come back to defend her friend.

Those poor, poor girls. I just want to mess that guy up really really badly.
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In regards to them being able to get away, it's very difficult to try and comprehend what would have been going through their minds and body at that stage. They were 13-14 years old and probably knew they were in real danger.

A massive spike in fear does a huge amount to the body in a real short time. Heart rate goes through the roof alongside blood pressure, muscles begin to tighten, breathing gets quicker. Meanwhile other parts of the body are being told by the brain to slow down. It all causes havoc in your system. It's simple to think that they should have ran or made a break for it, but in that moment there is no guarantee their bodies would have let them.
 
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