Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[StarryStarryNight]

My new idea. What if LE knows who it was, but the way they got information was accidental and not anything that can be even mentioned in court, much less stand there. There are many ways of data mining, after all, some are legal, some not, and some are simply hush-hush. I wonder if after they got this information, they, indeed, sent the suspect’s DNA to compare with whatever scanty amount they got from the CS, and it matched…but like a 111-marker Y would match a 12-marker one. (A non-match does rule the person out, but a match can indicate a whole group). I also think it happened somewhere in the end of 2018, so between the time they got their info and the time of the PC in April of 2019, they, indeed, hoped to get something tangible by putting a pressure on someone (a partner?), but it didn’t pan out. So in April, LE came out with all their “homework”, such as “the right sketch”, etc., but nothing to show and no name to spell out. Furthermore, I suspect the person is an upstanding citizen, so there is no way they can imprison him for something unrelated. Maybe they hoped he’d pop up in the CSAM group, but he did not. So there is a stalemate, and hence RI said “if he does something else again”. He probably has somehow suffered, didn’t get a promotion, life put on hold, but he had not been brought to justice. And they know what tip they are waiting for, but no one has called. JMO.

I have thought for a long time that LE was hamstrung by some mistake they made early on that rendered some evidence unusable. I‘ve resisted any idea that LE actually knows who the killer is.
Your scenario though actually makes sense to me. I don’t especially think the killer has to be an upstanding citizen though. I actually would say that he’s not. Your idea though could explain a lot including why we keep running into spells where nothing seems to be happening. Like now.

 

[sunshineray]

In the 194 page redacted KAK interrogation released by The Murder Sheet the officer mentions to KAK that what they found in his phones led to Indiana's largest investigation into online child *advertiser censored* in the state.

I just watched in past month or so a true crime show/movie that had the police assuming the criminal's identity online, not just his monikers but his actual name. They made it part of a plea deal and he signed on the dotted line. I wish I could remember the name of the show but have wracked my brain to no avail...a hacker maybe?

Anyway...

Abby and Libby were killed and shortly after March 25th's search warrant at KAK's father's house and a huge statewide investigation springs up from that. It's possible smaller ones were already in the works as it was the FBI who pointed local LE to KAK but the information on KAK's phones sparked something much larger.

Could LE have made the same kind of deal early on with KAK? You won't go to prison but you need to let us become you. Your phones, your online personas, your dropbox are all under our control now. If you muck it up in anyway it's prosecution and off to jail you go. Maybe that's why he wasn't arrested back then?

Maybe the whole anthony_shots parr got put aside univestigated or misinterpreted? The thing that stands out as having to be wrong to me is that LE knew soon after that March 2017 search warrant that KAK communicated with Libby the day she died and didn't follow up on that fact.

I'm thinking that was the early error that allowed the Kline's to fly under the Delphi investigation. That connection wasn't made or didn't get passed on, stayed within the larger investigation and got lost there?

Maybe new eyes were brought in after that December 2018 DNA (that Tobe Leazenby talked to RadarOnline about) was sent to Quantico and eliminated a favored suspect?

Just some thoughts, AJMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

In the 194 page redacted KAK interrogation released by The Murder Sheet the officer mentions to KAK that what they found in his phones led to Indiana's largest investigation into online child *advertiser censored* in the state.

I just watched in past month or so a true crime show/movie that had the police assuming the criminal's identity online, not just his monikers but his actual name. They made it part of a plea deal and he signed on the dotted line. I wish I could remember the name of the show but have wracked my brain to no avail...a hacker maybe?

Anyway...

Abby and Libby were killed and shortly after March 25th's search warrant at KAK's father's house and a huge statewide investigation springs up from that. It's possible smaller ones were already in the works as it was the FBI who pointed local LE to KAK but the information on KAK's phones sparked something much larger.

Could LE have made the same kind of deal early on with KAK? You won't go to prison but you need to let us become you. Your phones, your online personas, your dropbox are all under our control now. If you muck it up in anyway it's prosecution and off to jail you go. Maybe that's why he wasn't arrested back then?

Maybe the whole anthony_shots parr got put aside univestigated or misinterpreted? The thing that stands out as having to be wrong to me is that LE knew soon after that March 2017 search warrant that KAK communicated with Libby the day she died and didn't follow up on that fact.

I'm thinking that was the early error that allowed the Kline's to fly under the Delphi investigation. That connection wasn't made or didn't get passed on, stayed within the larger investigation and got lost there?

Maybe new eyes were brought in after that December 2018 DNA (that Tobe Leazenby talked to RadarOnline about) was sent to Quantico and eliminated a favored suspect?

Just some thoughts, AJMO

That was a huge blunder by LE to dismiss the KAK search so quickly. It’s mindboggling to me LE, led onto KAK by the FBI, went to the house looking for info on Delphi and just walked away from it. The statement by the FBI agent that there was no connection to Delphi is baffling considering that’s why they went there. I don’t even think they looked at his devices until 2020.
LE has a lot of explaining to do on why they pivoted so quickly away from KAK, so maybe they did corral his online persona. That would at least explain the gap. Then once they went through his devices, they realized there was more there.

 

[AC4RD]

Surely suspects could be ruled out by DNA and no more time and effort spent on them?

Yes! *If* 1.) the DNA sample is technically good--not mixed, not degraded, and 2.) if the DNA sample is definitely from someone involved in the murders, and not just a possibly random bit of touch DNA, and 3.) if they have suspects to test against the sample and have a warrant to get the suspect(s) to give samples. As I understand it, otherwise it's just one more investigative tool.

It appears to me that we don't know IF they have solid suspects, much less how much time and effort they might be spending on them. I'm hopeful that the KAK catfishing news represents a solid step forward in the investigation, but I'm not even certain about that--it might be totally unrelated. (IMO probably isn't, but we don't know enough to be sure about that, either.) JMHO.

 

[Melmo]

In the 194 page redacted KAK interrogation released by The Murder Sheet the officer mentions to KAK that what they found in his phones led to Indiana's largest investigation into online child *advertiser censored* in the state.

I just watched in past month or so a true crime show/movie that had the police assuming the criminal's identity online, not just his monikers but his actual name. They made it part of a plea deal and he signed on the dotted line. I wish I could remember the name of the show but have wracked my brain to no avail...a hacker maybe?

Anyway...

Abby and Libby were killed and shortly after March 25th's search warrant at KAK's father's house and a huge statewide investigation springs up from that. It's possible smaller ones were already in the works as it was the FBI who pointed local LE to KAK but the information on KAK's phones sparked something much larger.

Could LE have made the same kind of deal early on with KAK? You won't go to prison but you need to let us become you. Your phones, your online personas, your dropbox are all under our control now. If you muck it up in anyway it's prosecution and off to jail you go. Maybe that's why he wasn't arrested back then?

Maybe the whole anthony_shots parr got put aside univestigated or misinterpreted? The thing that stands out as having to be wrong to me is that LE knew soon after that March 2017 search warrant that KAK communicated with Libby the day she died and didn't follow up on that fact.

I'm thinking that was the early error that allowed the Kline's to fly under the Delphi investigation. That connection wasn't made or didn't get passed on, stayed within the larger investigation and got lost there?

Maybe new eyes were brought in after that December 2018 DNA (that Tobe Leazenby talked to RadarOnline about) was sent to Quantico and eliminated a favored suspect?

Just some thoughts, AJMO

I think the documentary you are thinking of is called Enemies of the State.

 

[Wondergirl]

I would be *shocked* if the Kline and Chadwell families were entirely unknown to each other as Peru is, IMO, tiny.

Also … how deep is Deer Creek by MHB? Is it feasible that someone boated down the Wabash from, say, Peru to Dear Creek? (Apologies if boat theories have been done to death in earlier threads. I’m just remembering that, at one point, JBC had kayaks according to his FB.

At 3pm on Feb.13th, 1.5 miles upstream from the recovery location, the depth level was recorded at a little over 3 feet.

The flow of the river and it's cfm's are very important in the determination of the evidence found in the river.

Experiments could have been performed to determine if articles of clothing could have been found near the bridge according to the flow of the river, or would have to have been discarded where they were found.

 

[Ravenmoon]

That was a huge blunder by LE to dismiss the KAK search so quickly. It’s mindboggling to me LE, led onto KAK by the FBI, went to the house looking for info on Delphi and just walked away from it. The statement by the FBI agent that there was no connection to Delphi is baffling considering that’s why they went there. I don’t even think they looked at his devices until 2020.
LE has a lot of explaining to do on why they pivoted so quickly away from KAK, so maybe they did corral his online persona. That would at least explain the gap. Then once they went through his devices, they realized there was more there.

I believe that they (the police) didn't realize just what they had when they seized KAK's devices- initially.

I am wondering if it took longer than we realize for them to recover information that was deleted and uninstalled by KAK.

In the meantime, JMO- they had someone else in their sights. This individual was arrested, and I cannot remember WHY ...but, once arrested- they were able to clear him from being a POI. If memory serves me correctly- the news conference in 2019 took place within a couple of months after this arrest and him being cleared.

So- my thoughts are that between the slow recovery of information, data and links to the A_S profile plus the clearing of this other person- it began the "change of direction."

Just over one year later , a new person was assigned the case- and then.......KAK is arrested and questioned about his potential involvement in Delphi. Clearly, we can gather from the document that was released by Murder Sheet- police believe and were trying to extract information about a person very close to KAK.

I , personally, don't believe the case has come to a halt.
The release of information to the public has.

They know who did this... but, as they say, the wheels of justice turn slowly.


AMOO MOO JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think the documentary you are thinking of is called Enemies of the State.

Yes thank you!

 

[TheVisual]

I have gotten no messages since 1:59 AM Thursday. Is the page just quiet or is something wrong with the new website?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have gotten no messages since 1:59 AM Thursday. Is the page just quiet or is something wrong with the new website?

Quiet.

 

[Schatz]

Of interest - new docs filed for Chadwell’s appeal in the Lafayette case. Of note, per one of them Chadwell has PTSD and borderline personality disorder.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Schatz]

Of interest - new docs filed for Chadwell’s appeal in the Lafayette case. Of note, per one of them Chadwell has PTSD and borderline personality disorder.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Here are the documents.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So reading those documents it appears Chadwell’s attorneys are trying to have his child molestation charges thrown out because of a technicality, namely that those charges were melded in with other charges So they are saying he was charged twice for them (not the usual definition of double jeopardy). Am I reading this right?

 

[Schatz]

So reading those documents it appears Chadwell’s attorneys are trying to have his child molestation charges thrown out because of a technicality, namely that those charges were melded in with other charges So they are saying he was charged twice for them (not the usual definition of double jeopardy). Am I reading this right?

I found this interesting, too. But yeah, a technicality I think. Much good May it do him. (None.)

 

[Schatz]

So reading those documents it appears Chadwell’s attorneys are trying to have his child molestation charges thrown out because of a technicality, namely that those charges were melded in with other charges So they are saying he was charged twice for them (not the usual definition of double jeopardy). Am I reading this right?

Who is the verified attny I like … @Alethea ? Would love thoughts.

 

[FrostedGlass]

According to the doc, they were aware that double jeopardy may be an issue and that's why they vacated Count 4 (kidnapping), Count 5 (criminal confinement), Count 6 (battery), and Count 7 (strangulation).

 

[minazoe]

Did they take TK's phone? also I can't imagine them not jumping on all this like a dog on a bone ...I mean isn't that the number one thing they are looking for? The SUSPECT????? I mean how does the SUSPECT get forgotten about and his phone is in the freaking kitchen for 3 weeks ....he is clearly the number one suspect..KAK or both KAK And his Dad... this is worse than the sketches..just defies the logical course of police work..

here you have phone records, and an admission.

all I can think of is JBC and how or why he does or doesn't fit in this and maybe he does..maybe he is the problem...maybe they have to link him somehow to truly solve it.

I only say this because they still haven't said word one about him.

I only know whoever wore the ski mask is the killer...a guy with a ski mask in the bushes and then another whole different guy on the bridge is like lightning striking twice..no way.

seems almost impossible that KAK isn't involved.

I would ask him if he sold Libby's address to someone.

mOO

 

[minazoe]

he was googling about DNA..they say they have DNA so what is the prob? obviously it doesn't match or it's not enough and it's inconclusive. Does this case now hang on this DNA? is it mitochondrial?

now for not feeling KAK fits the kind of killer you imagine, think again. I ask you to look at his antiseptic Facebook and his meticulous photography. everything has a clean crispness and order...very professional
and impressive in a way as it shows some sophistication about aesthetic.

so I say he is not as appears.

now JBC is my idea of who this killer is, but for those of you who say , no , the killer is methodical, professional, devious..then have a look at KAK's Facebook..even with all the lies on there..on the surface..the way he makes his world appear to the outside is nothing like the garbage stuff of A-Schotts..

the AShotts stuff is almost intentionally garbage ...is the only way I can out it...mOO

 

[HistoryNut]

Did they take TK's phone? also I can't imagine them not jumping on all this like a dog on a bone ...I mean isn't that the number one thing they are looking for? The SUSPECT????? I mean how does the SUSPECT get forgotten about and his phone is in the freaking kitchen for 3 weeks ....he is clearly the number one suspect..KAK or both KAK And his Dad... this is worse than the sketches..just defies the logical course of police work..

here you have phone records, and an admission.

all I can think of is JBC and how or why he does or doesn't fit in this and maybe he does..maybe he is the problem...maybe they have to link him somehow to truly solve it.

I only say this because they still haven't said word one about him.

I only know whoever wore the ski mask is the killer...a guy with a ski mask in the bushes and then another whole different guy on the bridge is like lightning striking twice..no way.

seems almost impossible that KAK isn't involved.

I would ask him if he sold Libby's address to someone.

mOO

I've always believed there were two killers. It would have taken at least two people to prevent the girls from escaping. I also agree that KAK has got to be involved in some way.

 

[Yvettea]

Saw this today: Two recent cases have captured his attention, Holes said: The Delphi slayings in Indiana — “that’s a serial predator, somebody who needs to be caught”

2,000 serial killers in US, says man who caught Golden State Killer

I don’t know this to be true but something I’ve wondered.