Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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If LE released details of the "staging" perhaps it could help solve this case?

LE obviously holds back information from the public for "operational purposes" but if the killer has done some weird stuff it is likely that acquaintances or friends of BG could have a light bulb moment if this info was released.

Maybe it is a signature thing he has done as a "joke" before or has drawn a picture of this before?

Maybe LE does not need help from the public, they may already know who committed these crimes. Otherwise they should release more information to the public.
 
If LE released details of the "staging" perhaps it could help solve this case?

LE obviously holds back information from the public for "operational purposes" but if the killer has done some weird stuff it is likely that acquaintances or friends of BG could have a light bulb moment if this info was released.

Maybe it is a signature thing he has done as a "joke" before or has drawn a picture of this before?

Maybe LE does not need help from the public, they may already know who committed these crimes. Otherwise they should release more information to the public.
From Detective Willy's post above:
"Maybe LE does not need help from the public, they may already know who committed these crimes. Otherwise they should release more information to the public." I totally agree!!
I listened to a recent interview with Police Superintendent Carter (the extended version.) His references "we have this amazing ability to communicate", "able to glean information literally from around the globe," "countries around the world we talk with".... "with such violence and such horror some good's come out of this." And PSCarter no longer referring to one person but "them" and "They're watching. They're watching."
In my humble opinion, it has to be this>>>>>>
Just wanted to add KAK...You opened Pandora's box and you ain't gettin' any deals. Once high-tech Interpol steps in, "Your goose is cooked" in 15 different languages.
Oh, and this is the link to the interview:
 
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IMO, the explanation for his fake alibi makes no sense. His driving offenses occurred in the morning and in the late afternoon. If he need an alibi about driving illegally, why pick a totally different time that just happened to coincide with the crime? IMO the explanation would only make sense or be reasonable if the alibi was sought for the times he actually was away from his home.

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

JMO
Would love to know who the phone call at 2:09 was to or from.
 
If LE released details of the "staging" perhaps it could help solve this case?

LE obviously holds back information from the public for "operational purposes" but if the killer has done some weird stuff it is likely that acquaintances or friends of BG could have a light bulb moment if this info was released.

Maybe it is a signature thing he has done as a "joke" before or has drawn a picture of this before?

Maybe LE does not need help from the public, they may already know who committed these crimes. Otherwise they should release more information to the public.

For lack of released details, my working theory, which fits with most of what little has been said, is that the killer(s) staged the victims to appear as if they killed each other, and/or in some other more vulgar display. That would explain the "shocking" description, the "how you left them is not how they are" comment, and possibly the signature as well. Perhaps other victims have been left in a similar state in the past. (shrug)

And I 100% agree with the "lightbulb moment" analysis, but I don't know what they know, and maybe they know something that makes that theory worthless. I hope to see a resolution soon.
 
IMO, the explanation for his fake alibi makes no sense. His driving offenses occurred in the morning and in the late afternoon. If he need an alibi about driving illegally, why pick a totally different time that just happened to coincide with the crime? IMO the explanation would only make sense or be reasonable if the alibi was sought for the times he actually was away from his home.

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

JMO
 
Just my opinion and sad conclusion after 5+ years:
-No matter what LE says, either to the killer or about the killer, about how much they know about the killer, about their wishes that the killer sleeps well, LE has no idea who the killer is because if they did that person would be in jail right now.
-LE is not working the child p*rn part of this first, rounding up all the perverts in Indiana, before they arrest this killer of two young girls. They don’t know who the killer is because if they did he would be in jail right now.
-LE is not dotting “i’s” and crossing “t’s” in preparation of arresting the killer because if they were surely by now all that punctuation and stylized writing would be finished and the killer would be in jail by now.
-By now, LE has been looking into KAK‘s connection for at least two years maybe more…who knows they hid all that from us for a long time…yet LE still is trying to figure out who else used a_shots profile, trying to connect the dots to Delphi the day of the murder. LE does not have answers for that or the killer would be in jail by now.
-LE says this case is bizarre and strange and different so it’s hard to solve. Is it? We don’t know that. Maybe if we knew what was so strange about it, somebody would recognize that strangeness and know who did this. The killer is not in jail.
-LE has changed direction in this case at least twice but the killer is not in jail.
-The murders occurred in a small town, by, according to LE, someone associated with that small town yet no one recognizes him and the killer is not in jail five years later.
-LE knows a lot more than we do. They’ve accumulated a lot of information but the killer is still not in jail.
LE has made some huge mistakes in this case. They continue to do that.
 
Just my opinion and sad conclusion after 5+ years:
-No matter what LE says, either to the killer or about the killer, about how much they know about the killer, about their wishes that the killer sleeps well, LE has no idea who the killer is because if they did that person would be in jail right now.
-LE is not working the child p*rn part of this first, rounding up all the perverts in Indiana, before they arrest this killer of two young girls. They don’t know who the killer is because if they did he would be in jail right now.
-LE is not dotting “i’s” and crossing “t’s” in preparation of arresting the killer because if they were surely by now all that punctuation and stylized writing would be finished and the killer would be in jail by now.
-By now, LE has been looking into KAK‘s connection for at least two years maybe more…who knows they hid all that from us for a long time…yet LE still is trying to figure out who else used a_shots profile, trying to connect the dots to Delphi the day of the murder. LE does not have answers for that or the killer would be in jail by now.
-LE says this case is bizarre and strange and different so it’s hard to solve. Is it? We don’t know that. Maybe if we knew what was so strange about it, somebody would recognize that strangeness and know who did this. The killer is not in jail.
-LE has changed direction in this case at least twice but the killer is not in jail.
-The murders occurred in a small town, by, according to LE, someone associated with that small town yet no one recognizes him and the killer is not in jail five years later.
-LE knows a lot more than we do. They’ve accumulated a lot of information but the killer is still not in jail.
LE has made some huge mistakes in this case. They continue to do that.

To an extent, I agree with you. There's always the point that knowing isn't the same as proving, but I can't imagine someone who has done this such a spotless record that he or she can't be arrested for SOMETHING that allows them to dig deeper and connect the dots.

I'm willing to bet that within LE, just like here, there are still to this day competing theories/suspects.
 
I agree. I also wonder just how much KK knows. It seems to me that it's beyond mere coincidence that KK, under the guise of Anthony_Shots, talked to Libby the very evening before the murders. He also stored CSAM on dropbox, which suggests that may have been sharing them with one or more fellow pedophiles. After the murders, he conducted multiple internet searches. Why was he so curious? IMO, he knows far more than what he says, and his lies and actions are indicative of that.
 
If LE released details of the "staging" perhaps it could help solve this case?

LE obviously holds back information from the public for "operational purposes" but if the killer has done some weird stuff it is likely that acquaintances or friends of BG could have a light bulb moment if this info was released.

Maybe it is a signature thing he has done as a "joke" before or has drawn a picture of this before?

Maybe LE does not need help from the public, they may already know who committed these crimes. Otherwise they should release more information to the public.
Completely agree, unless the evidence is exculpatory.
 
Just my opinion and sad conclusion after 5+ years:
-No matter what LE says, either to the killer or about the killer, about how much they know about the killer, about their wishes that the killer sleeps well, LE has no idea who the killer is because if they did that person would be in jail right now.
-LE is not working the child p*rn part of this first, rounding up all the perverts in Indiana, before they arrest this killer of two young girls. They don’t know who the killer is because if they did he would be in jail right now.
-LE is not dotting “i’s” and crossing “t’s” in preparation of arresting the killer because if they were surely by now all that punctuation and stylized writing would be finished and the killer would be in jail by now.
-By now, LE has been looking into KAK‘s connection for at least two years maybe more…who knows they hid all that from us for a long time…yet LE still is trying to figure out who else used a_shots profile, trying to connect the dots to Delphi the day of the murder. LE does not have answers for that or the killer would be in jail by now.
-LE says this case is bizarre and strange and different so it’s hard to solve. Is it? We don’t know that. Maybe if we knew what was so strange about it, somebody would recognize that strangeness and know who did this. The killer is not in jail.
-LE has changed direction in this case at least twice but the killer is not in jail.
-The murders occurred in a small town, by, according to LE, someone associated with that small town yet no one recognizes him and the killer is not in jail five years later.
-LE knows a lot more than we do. They’ve accumulated a lot of information but the killer is still not in jail.
LE has made some huge mistakes in this case. They continue to do that.
Yes and No, but good points

When dealing with crimes of a sensitive nature, sometimes certain things may need be kept from the public, like a suspect name etc..I will however say that I feel Delphi police have withheld too much info on this particular case.

There's certainly a need to exclude potential frauds , we all know that and that could be due to them having a suspect connected to one of the victims, which is a very good lead , but things such as the manner of death could provide a lead , for ex, a homicide here took almost 10 years to solve, because the PD, didnt reveal that the victim was stabbed, years later the suspects wife remembered, her (now) husband coming home that night covered in blood, saying he got into a fight, he was so convincing that when he burned his clothes to get rid of possible HIV, she believed him

You really only need keep a small amount away from the public .

In most of these type cases, the offenders name surfaces, usually within the first 1-2 weeks , (usually within the first 48 hours actually) but though they may be questioned, theres not enough evidence to arrest them on the charges in question.

It helps greatly if you have a suspect in custody on a subsequent charge, that way you have them in custody, and can question them more, all the while investigating further, and building the DA's case, and if you are able to link the suspect in question to any other crimes, in any other places, he has resided, you strengthen your case, even more, because if the case, fails you can have him tried for another.

But they have to do whatever they can to prevent a potential mistrial. In which this leak, of information could be detrimental.

Any type of leak or misstep, and a potential killer could be walking free, in many instances the police may carry still actively looking for a suspect, checking on the hundreds of leads that come in , and quite a few are dead ends, all the while they are working the case in question.

But to the general public it looks as if the police aren't doing anything , or mishandling the case ... which is understandable, especially if its your child .

Also on top of that unless they dedicate a task force, which in my experience usually only lasts a few months to a year , the detectives, are also handling any number of other cases, that come in .

Just to give a behind the scenes
 
If LE released details of the "staging" perhaps it could help solve this case?

LE obviously holds back information from the public for "operational purposes" but if the killer has done some weird stuff it is likely that acquaintances or friends of BG could have a light bulb moment if this info was released.

Maybe it is a signature thing he has done as a "joke" before or has drawn a picture of this before?

Maybe LE does not need help from the public, they may already know who committed these crimes. Otherwise they should release more information to the public.

I tend to agree, where this case is concerned. I've often wondered whether the convictions of the ISP officers who headed up this inquiry from the beginning began to hamper it. Releasing as little info as possible, the theatrical press conferences, the insistence on making those ancillary arrests when public cooperation was so critical, and so on.

I get that some info needs to be held back, including profoundly intimate details regarding the seemingly brutal treatment of Abby and Libby, but at times LE in this case seems to have viewed the public as a positive hindrance to investigation, and not a useful if limited tool.

Let today be the day indeed -- but with all possible resources at your disposal in order to make today that day.
 
Just a guess...but ahead of the time before the video of BG walking towards them. "At 2.09pm, Liberty, known as Libby, used her mobile phone to upload a picture of Abby walking on the iconic bridge to Snapchat. "
Which when read with the RL affidavit is pretty crazy for such a small area for people to be using their phones at the same minute.
 
Just a guess...but ahead of the time before the video of BG walking towards them. "At 2.09pm, Liberty, known as Libby, used her mobile phone to upload a picture of Abby walking on the iconic bridge to Snapchat. "

What’s the source of this time? How did it change from 2:09 to whats been reported since the very beginning….2:07?

“At 2:07 p.m., German posted a photo of Williams, her friend and hiking partner, walking across the historic bridge.”
 
Yes and No, but good points

When dealing with crimes of a sensitive nature, sometimes certain things may need be kept from the public, like a suspect name etc..I will however say that I feel Delphi police have withheld too much info on this particular case.

There's certainly a need to exclude potential frauds , we all know that and that could be due to them having a suspect connected to one of the victims, which is a very good lead , but things such as the manner of death could provide a lead , for ex, a homicide here took almost 10 years to solve, because the PD, didnt reveal that the victim was stabbed, years later the suspects wife remembered, her (now) husband coming home that night covered in blood, saying he got into a fight, he was so convincing that when he burned his clothes to get rid of possible HIV, she believed him

You really only need keep a small amount away from the public .

In most of these type cases, the offenders name surfaces, usually within the first 1-2 weeks , (usually within the first 48 hours actually) but though they may be questioned, theres not enough evidence to arrest them on the charges in question.

It helps greatly if you have a suspect in custody on a subsequent charge, that way you have them in custody, and can question them more, all the while investigating further, and building the DA's case, and if you are able to link the suspect in question to any other crimes, in any other places, he has resided, you strengthen your case, even more, because if the case, fails you can have him tried for another.

But they have to do whatever they can to prevent a potential mistrial. In which this leak, of information could be detrimental.

Any type of leak or misstep, and a potential killer could be walking free, in many instances the police may carry still actively looking for a suspect, checking on the hundreds of leads that come in , and quite a few are dead ends, all the while they are working the case in question.

But to the general public it looks as if the police aren't doing anything , or mishandling the case ... which is understandable, especially if its your child .

Also on top of that unless they dedicate a task force, which in my experience usually only lasts a few months to a year , the detectives, are also handling any number of other cases, that come in .

Just to give a behind the scenes

Thanks for the pat on the head.

I am aware that there are legitimate reasons to withhold information from the public and that actual investigation takes place without my knowledge and that wider considerations have to thought about as far as prosecution etc. I have tremendous respect for LE in general.
My opinion is however, after watching this case unfold from day one and admittedly, like the rest of us, from the outside, that LE has done a poor job on every level, from focusing the investigation to communication. They are always “on to something” but nothing never happens.
Five years out is a long time.
LE doesn’t have a clue.
The families deserve better.
That is just my opinion.
 
Thanks for the pat on the head.

I am aware that there are legitimate reasons to withhold information from the public and that actual investigation takes place without my knowledge and that wider considerations have to thought about as far as prosecution etc. I have tremendous respect for LE in general.
My opinion is however, after watching this case unfold from day one and admittedly, like the rest of us, from the outside, that LE has done a poor job on every level, from focusing the investigation to communication. They are always “on to something” but nothing never happens.
Five years out is a long time.
LE doesn’t have a clue.
The families deserve better.
That is just my opinion.
And that is absolutely a valid opinion, it certainly appears given what we are privy to that this investigation has stalled, I agree .

And given what we knew prior to this information being released, about a suspect, the general public being kept in the dark, was infuriating .

However once I heard they had a suspect i did a 180, I now believe they are building the case, against this individual thats why little to no new info was released, and the composite was re-released the, looking completely different , then removed completely in other words, they are asking if anyone saw someone looking more like the suspect they already had , (indirectly) without tipping off they had someone in their sights, and they are now asking anyone who had online contact with this fake personality to come forward.

It appears they are "onto something"

Why its taking so long is another thing , there could be several factors, the COVID pandemic didnt help matters any, COVID put many courts down for long time, for ex, ours and many other courthouses in the area were not handling criminal cases, for almost a year and a half, police departments, went on skeleton crews, so that may have something to do with the process.

Id be interested in what develops with this suspect down the road
 
Less than 6 months ago, LE first came out with the a_shots ask, 2 months ago, most of the suspect description was removed from the FBI page, and just over 1 month ago, LE expanded their list of SM applications used by a_shots. All tips were directed towards the A&L tip line and BP stated that LE told her they believe it was SM related (can someone repost that link, because I can't find it).

IMO, this is a very active line of investigation, and perhaps has been all along. Obviously, we don't know who all the players are, but the same IP addresses linked to the a_shots user(s) devices are seemingly linked to the the largest CSAM case in IN state history, linked to L (before and after the murders, including from Vegas), and is now likely linked to the Delphi case.

I don't know why so little has been released, or why it's taking so long, but I am hopeful that justice for A&L includes the takedown of not only their killer, but also a whole slew of CSAM users.
 
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IMO, the explanation for his fake alibi makes no sense. His driving offenses occurred in the morning and in the late afternoon. If he need an alibi about driving illegally, why pick a totally different time that just happened to coincide with the crime? IMO the explanation would only make sense or be reasonable if the alibi was sought for the times he actually was away from his home.

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

JMO
Exactly- it suggests that at the very least he (perhaps) already knew about this crime before anyone else did.
 
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