Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[JillR]

And how the hell can you sit there with a straight face and release a sketch from 2 years ago now? For whatever reason...

Moving in a new direction they call it. What? Is this a video game? Where you can just start over? Mind boggling.

Why authorities hold back information
Todd Lappin, a retired Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department homicide detective, said holding back information is often key to solving the mystery.

Are there phone records? Were the girls texting or talking to anyone? What drew them to that trail? Were they planning to meet someone?
Did the man plan to kill them? Did something happened on that trail that prompted him to kill?
Did they know the suspect?

FullArticle
Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

 

[IceIce9]

I personally do not believe for one minute that the girls were planning to meet someone. Especially some stranger from social media.

That is the problem with social media. People chat with someone and then they don’t think of that person as a stranger. And the person could be pretending to be someone else entirely. A 40 year old sex offender pretends to be a teenage boy.

 

[janesmith787]

For all we know, the new sketch might not be BG at all. The police may already have that part of the case solved, but now need the evidence. The person in the new sketch could be someone linked to BG that perhaps is family or gave a false alibi. I think this latest sketch is designed to provoke some people along.

LEO are not going to make such a bold statement saying the guy in this picture IS the guy on the bridge and HE IS the murderer if it was a lie. Any DA would tear up their entire case in court with that if they lied.

They want to capture this guy and CONVICT. Everything they're doing is for the end result of a conviction and punishment.

 

[TL4S]

If you do a street view from the interstate right by where that abandoned building used to be, where the car was parked, there are other buildings, businesses, and even the water tower within direct sight. I wonder if some of the information they reassessed was camera footage from one of those, and they could see the car parked?

 

[holtzmann]

Today's fresh morning thoughts (not sure if these are helpful but people seem to like them):

• I still believe BG is local, as LE does. I don't know why they are certain, but I think that knowing the bridge and its surroundings, as well as being able to navigate the area without being seen (at least clearly enough to be identified), indicates a familiarity with the area that a transient, drifter, or passer-through would not have.
• LE has stated that the girls were killed within some minutes of Libby's video. We know the timeframe is somewhere between 2:07 (Libby's photo of Abby on the bridge), 2:30 (billboard stating the last known sighting of BG, possibly from her video's timestamp), and 3:11 (Libby's failure to answer her phone).
• I do not think BG found the girls through Snapchat. The tight timing indicates to me that he was probably already onsite and waiting. The more I think about it the less likely it seems that he specifically targeted them, as I don't think he had prior knowledge that they were going to the bridge.
• However, the timeframe does indicate that he did go to the bridge that day with violent intent. The lack of conclusive evidence up to present day (at least that which is public knowledge) would seem to suggest someone who was able to clean up enough after himself that he was prepared for whatever actions he took. I don't think this was a spur-of-the-moment or snap-decision attack.
• Therefore I would posit that BG planned to commit violence that day, but not necessarily specifically against Abby and Libby as direct targets.
• It would surprise me if he has committed a similar crime since. LE knows the scene, cause of death, position of the bodies, etc. These are evidently distinct enough that it was a necessity to keep them confidential to ensure that LE and BG would be the only ones to know the details.
• Not unusual, in my opinion. Police often simply don't release certain details to the public because they want to trap a suspect with information he shouldn't have, if he's innocent.

As a sidenote, I also want to state that personally, I don't have any real interest in analyzing the video of BG or the audio further. I think we have very small snippets for a reason, and I think to anyone outside of Delphi, it's going to be very hard to recognize or pinpoint BG's identity. The image is just too pixelated, and the audio to me seems to be a good reference for matching voice pitch and tone only.

I rewatched GH's flow video of the crime scene last night and then again this morning. I think anyone who has not done so should take a look, as it provides the best insight I have seen into the trail, the bridge, and the entirety of the location. I also think he has some very helpful commentary regarding discrepancies and misconceptions that have come up throughout the case.

Sorry for the long post. I hope my morning thoughts have been helpful.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Hi everyone -- new to WS and happy to be here: I admire both your thought processes and your commitment to justice for the victims. The murders of Liberty and Abigail have affected me to an enormous degree. I noticed a few people suggesting that, by his walk, the man in the video may have a prosthetic leg. It's a possibility, but please remember what was said at the PC: note the man's mannerisms; however, keep in mind that the deteriorating condition of the bridge probably affected the way he was walking. Apologies if I'm addressing this late in the game; I've been trying to catch up with all the previous threads!

Welcome to WS!

 

[mtnlites]

Hi everyone -- new to WS and happy to be here: I admire both your thought processes and your commitment to justice for the victims. The murders of Liberty and Abigail have affected me to an enormous degree. I noticed a few people suggesting that, by his walk, the man in the video may have a prosthetic leg. It's a possibility, but please remember what was said at the PC: note the man's mannerisms; however, keep in mind that the deteriorating condition of the bridge probably affected the way he was walking. Apologies if I'm addressing this late in the game; I've been trying to catch up with all the previous threads!

I think that's a great point. It's difficult to walk on that bridge, really difficult. I sure don't have my "normal" gait on it. I probably vary between taking very large, awkward steps and really tiny inch-by-inch ones, depending on where I'm at on there. From the waist down I can't draw too many conclusions from the video. But from the waist up...the way he holds his shoulders, how he turns his head, hands in pocket...these could be distinguishing things family/friends might notice.

I am legally blind and without glasses or contacts anything more than 4 feet in front of me is a blur. After 20 feet, I have nothing. When I was in high school I had eye surgery and couldn't wear glasses or contacts for a few days. None of my classmates had faces anymore. However, I always knew my boyfriend. If he was walking towards me, I could always tell that it was him just by the way his body moved. I couldn't see a single distinguishing characteristic on his face, could barely make out any of his clothing, but from the way he hunched forward, swung his arms, cocked his head to the side, and by his general body build I knew it was him every time. I think that's what they're hoping will happen with the people in BG's life and why they keep stressing to look at the mannerisms and build.

 

[flashy09]

One more time.... Please tell us about "the driver of a white van"?...... Link also, please....Thank you....moo

White van is a mistake...got that in my head from a podcast. At the press conference the detective made reference to an abandoned vehicle (my "white van") and looking for the driver.

 

[newyooper]

There could also be a fear of a future without that person. They may not be physically afraid of this person, but they ARE afraid of "losing" that person to prison. I know it sounds crazy to us, because we want justice, but people are complicated.

Or it's your kid. Maybe it's a college-aged kid and the parents don't want to admit their son is a murderer.

 

[MistyWaters]

Reposting this ISP News Release that our keen-eyed Jax pointed out last night in case it wasn’t noticed many pages back.

BBM

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.


I guess that the girls didn’t suffer at the hands of this coward for a great length of time is the only consolation of murder occurring within “minutes”.

I can think of only three possibilities that would account for that.
1. The girls were targeted in advance and the killer was on a deliberate mission to murder. (unlikely given their ages imo)
2. The killer was a total lunatic in a murderous and furious rage for reasons unknown but involving some type of conflict with both, either or neither of the victims.
3. The girls were targeted abduction victims who attempted to flee from a dangerous predator and were killed so as not to identify him.

Anyone feel free to add.

 

[teeandcee]

I will correct that! I have totally made the abandoned vehicle a white van in my head, I think from an old podcast talking about whether there was a white van/vehicle seen in the bridge picture.

Haha, I’ve done that with Libby’s dad. At some point I thought he was dead and thought her grandfather was her stepdad. And just 2 days ago someone had to correct me on it.

 

[cody22]

Today's fresh morning thoughts (not sure if these are helpful but people seem to like them):

• I still believe BG is local, as LE does. I don't know why they are certain, but I think that knowing the bridge and its surroundings, as well as being able to navigate the area without being seen (at least clearly enough to be identified), indicates a familiarity with the area that a transient, drifter, or passer-through would not have.
• LE has stated that the girls were killed within some minutes of Libby's video. We know the timeframe is somewhere between 2:07 (Libby's photo of Abby on the bridge), 2:30 (billboard stating the last known sighting of BG, possibly from her video's timestamp), and 3:11 (Libby's failure to answer her phone).
• I do not think BG found the girls through Snapchat. The tight timing indicates to me that he was probably already onsite and waiting. The more I think about it the less likely it seems that he specifically targeted them, as I don't think he had prior knowledge that they were going to the bridge.
• However, the timeframe does indicate that he did go to the bridge that day with violent intent. The lack of conclusive evidence up to present day (at least that which is public knowledge) would seem to suggest someone who was able to clean up enough after himself that he was prepared for whatever actions he took. I don't think this was a spur-of-the-moment or snap-decision attack.
• Therefore I would posit that BG planned to commit violence that day, but not necessarily specifically against Abby and Libby as direct targets.
• It would surprise me if he has committed a similar crime since. LE knows the scene, cause of death, position of the bodies, etc. These are evidently distinct enough that it was a necessity to keep them confidential to ensure that LE and BG would be the only ones to know the details.
• Not unusual, in my opinion. Police often simply don't release certain details to the public because they want to trap a suspect with information he shouldn't have, if he's innocent.

As a sidenote, I also want to state that personally, I don't have any real interest in analyzing the video of BG or the audio further. I think we have very small snippets for a reason, and I think to anyone outside of Delphi, it's going to be very hard to recognize or pinpoint BG's identity. The image is just too pixelated, and the audio to me seems to be a good reference for matching voice pitch and tone only.

I rewatched GH's flow video of the crime scene last night and then again this morning. I think anyone who has not done so should take a look, as it provides the best insight I have seen into the trail, the bridge, and the entirety of the location. I also think he has some very helpful commentary regarding discrepancies and misconceptions that have come up throughout the case.

Sorry for the long post. I hope my morning thoughts have been helpful.

Agreed with everything above. I also believe the perp knew that all the kids were out of school that day, and that he had a profession that allowed him to "be off" on Mondays, or freedom to travel the area, doing his job at any time....I believe he was "hunting" to finally make his " longtime thrilling fantasy plans" become real if possible...moo

 

[Owl4]

Apologies if this was shared already.

 

[scarletstar]

You know, there is at least one person that resembles the BG, and someone has a hoarse voice. However, looking at the video made me realize how germane to this place the perp. must have been. They all speak in the same dialect, many have slightly broad-based stride, and many seem to smoke.

I am now thinking that the perp must have been working/volunteering, not in LE, but something similar, a firefighter, some first response team. He is probably known to LE and likely had a good reputation.

bbm.
Yes.

 

[gregjrichards]

That is the problem with social media. People chat with someone and then they don’t think of that person as a stranger. And the person could be pretending to be someone else entirely. A 40 year old sex offender pretends to be a teenage boy.

I agree with you it must be very worrying being a parent nowadays they are being outsmarted by their kids/teens.

I wish we knew more about the girls if they were messaging boys at school etc. I have always thought that Abbey might be young for her age and not interested in boys, makeup yet. From the interviews with Abbey’s Mum she seemed to be very protective of her not allowing her to have a cell/mobile phone because of her fears. That is not a criticism at all I’m just making observations.

Liberty seemed more social and outgoing and perhaps she was interested in meeting and talking to boys. We know she was on social media and had a cell/mobile phone so if the girls were meeting anyone I suspect Liberty would be more likely to have arranged it. I may be totally wrong.

 

[flashy09]

Or it's your kid. Maybe it's a college-aged kid and the parents don't want to admit their son is a murderer.

That's what I am thinking....or just in true denial. I think maybe the alibi is like the kid said "oh, yes I was on the trail ,but home by 230". Parents believed him and gave the alibi....so and so was home at 230, even if they didn't actually see him to help get him off the hook because they *know* their son could not have done it. Something obviously made him get sketched though.

 

[IceIce9]

Apologies if this was shared already.

Some interesting points in this video.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Hi everyone -- new to WS and happy to be here: I admire both your thought processes and your commitment to justice for the victims. The murders of Liberty and Abigail have affected me to an enormous degree. I noticed a few people suggesting that, by his walk, the man in the video may have a prosthetic leg. It's a possibility, but please remember what was said at the PC: note the man's mannerisms; however, keep in mind that the deteriorating condition of the bridge probably affected the way he was walking. Apologies if I'm addressing this late in the game; I've been trying to catch up with all the previous threads!

Welcome to WS!

 

[allboys]

Even though I'm a fairly regular poster and I knew bits and pieces about this case, I am fairly new to the details. I haven't followed it closely for two years so I'm coming at it with fairly fresh eyes but I agree with you - the power of suggestion is strong. That said, to me, the first sketch fits the figure better but I also see a younger, shaven face. I also see a baseball cap, not a hoodie.

Also, as a court stenographer, I have listened to hours and hours of taped audio during my professional career and I hear "Go down the hill". I do not hear the word "guys".

What I'm most surprised about, though, is the graininess of the video and/or photo image. Even an older phone would take good video and photos. Maybe I've watched too much Criminal Minds and Dateline, but I'm surprised they aren't able to provide a sharper image, especially since they have the original.

I’ve always assumed that it’s that grainy because what is being shown to us is a zoomed in version of the original. Suggesting it was taken from farther away than it appears?

I’m not sure why, but I remember when I first saw this image 2 years ago, I always felt like it was taken from higher ground. Has it ever been clearly indicated whether this photo was taken by the girls from (on the) bridge? In looking at various images of the bridge and surroundings, it does seem like there is some higher ground, but it doesn’t really correlate with the direction he is seen walking from.

I guess I just wonder how far away the girls actually were from him when this picture was taken because I’m wondering if there is any possibility he was unaware of them when pic was taken. I guess that’s unlikely?

 

[ab01]

Reposting this ISP News Release that our keen-eyed Jax pointed out last night in case it wasn’t noticed many pages back.

BBM

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.


I guess that the girls didn’t suffer at the hands of this coward for a great length of time is the only consolation of murder occurring within “minutes”.

I can think of only three possibilities that would account for that.
1. The girls were targeted in advance and the killer was on a deliberate mission to murder. (unlikely given their ages imo)
2. The killer was a total lunatic in a murderous and furious rage for reasons unknown but involving some type of conflict with both, either or neither of the victims.
3. The girls were targeted abduction victims who attempted to flee from a dangerous predator and were killed so as not to identify him.

Anyone feel free to add.

I was under the impression that the minutes comment came directly from the ISP link that was provided. With that said I think it’s possible the within minutes might just mean shortly before the whole violent interaction took place.jmo

I believe the minutes is in reference to the interactions of BG and the girls and includes all events that happened before and during the actual murders. Jmo