Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Charlot123]

I agree with your technique. Isn’t it strange the way his left and right leg appear so differently in terms of thinness? I’m not sure if it’s just due to lighting, shift of direction he’s walking or what?

This is something very strange. I’d say, it looks like some contraption that starts from the lower midline of his pelvis and extends through the front of his right thigh, diagonally, ending at the R side of the knee joint. It is long, thin, and forms a bulge when he lifts his right thigh. He probably is thin (although I don’t see it), because his jeans are very loose around his legs, but this bulge is visible. Anything I can think of it could be makes no sense. I mean, if anyone wears a tiny pistol at the side of his knee, it could look like a strap, but I never heard of this.

 

[LadyL]

I was under the impression there were about 100 people at the event. They likely discard all female names and then those they already know by name, and investigate the few remaining names?

I don't understand what the point of signing in is, unless they also had to show i.d., because the killer could just sign a different name - any name and any phone #.

 

[Jabarn]

there is some kind of game being played..a race against time...a cat and mouse..

I can just feel it...mOO

Looking back and rethinking, perhaps the early investigation had a lot of clues, but too many chiefs.

Maybe the presser is showing the investigation is better coordinated going in one direction. Pure speculation and my opinion.

 

[kai]

Are you referring the duffle bag?

“While investigators have narrowed their search to this one man for the time being, they have expanded the geography of their search. They believe that if the man was from Delphi, someone from the town of roughly 3,000 people would have already identified him.

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.”

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

Oops, yes the duffle bag.

 

[IronOrchid]

How can any of us be sure the audio the police leaked (" Guys.... Down the hill....") was from the START of the crime, and not from the END of the crime? Everyone seems to be assuming the audio the police gave was from the start of the crime, from when the attacker first started to lead the girls "down the hill." But where is the evidence of that being true? Maybe this audio given by police was audio which was recorded by the victim's phone AFTER the attacks. Maybe this audio came from recording the attacker on a cell phone of his own, trying to get "help" around the area to get his friends to help cover his crime or hide the bodies, and he was telling them where he was.

It's speculation on my part to a certain extent (I haven't any evidence that the police outright stated that the audio came from before the attacks) and I welcome my inquiries being debunked, but I haven't seen LE coming out and saying exactly when the audio was recorded in regards to the murders. I welcome clarification if it is available. If it is not available, then I must ask this question: to what extent does the time frame of the audio impact the research and narrative surrounding the crimes?

 

[cfreyja23]

What are the chances BG is following this thread with us, possibly even posting!?

Maybe, but that would be incredibly stupid. Dennis Rader probably wishes on some level--the level where he doesn't relish the credit and attention--that he hadn't decided to communicate with police. And that's what BG would be doing indirectly by posting here.

 

[rosesfromangels]

How can any of us be sure the audio the police leaked (" Guys.... Down the hill....") was from the START of the crime, and not from the END of the crime? Everyone seems to be assuming the audio the police gave was from the start of the crime, from when the attacker first started to lead the girls "down the hill." But where is the evidence of that being true? Maybe this audio given by police was audio which was recorded by the victim's phone AFTER the attacks. Maybe this audio came from recording the attacker on a cell phone of his own, trying to get "help" around the area to get his friends to help cover his crime or hide the bodies, and he was telling them where he was.

It's speculation on my part to a certain extent (I haven't any evidence that the police outright stated that the audio came from before the attacks) and I welcome my inquiries being debunked, but I haven't seen LE coming out and saying exactly when the audio was recorded in regards to the murders. I welcome clarification if it is available. If it is not available, then I must ask this question: to what extent does the time frame of the audio impact the research and narrative surrounding the crimes?

Yes, this is a possibility. We do not know when, or to whom he was speaking. Very true.

 

[LGW88]

What are the chances BG is following this thread with us, possibly even posting!?

Then I would like to say to him, Please, please, just go on and turn yourself in. This is the end of the road for you and it is time to put an end to this nightmare. The authorities are closing in on you. So please. turn yourself in.

 

[taylorss]

Maybe, but that would be incredibly stupid. Dennis Rader probably wishes on some level--the level where he doesn't relish the credit and attention--that he hadn't decided to communicate with police. And that's what BG would be doing indirectly by posting here.

I’d bet he wishes that with every fiber of his being! Rot on behind bars, DR.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Maybe, but that would be incredibly stupid. Dennis Rader probably wishes on some level--the level where he doesn't relish the credit and attention--that he hadn't decided to communicate with police. And that's what BG would be doing indirectly by posting here.

True, but it wouldn't be the first time we had a POI (probable Perp) posting on one of these threads.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[tmar]

What are the chances BG is following this thread with us, possibly even posting!?

Well, then it will be very clear, what people think of him.
How will this affect him?
Feeling of importance perhaps.
MOO.

 

[gitana1]

I thought the same after I saw the picture of her that day. She didn't look spiffed up to meet a boy. So let me toss this out then...what if she told him that's what she was going to be doing? And I hold firm to the speculation she absolutely had hidden social media accounts.

As always, amateur opinion and speculation

To me the photo we saw of Abby that Libby took that day -both Abby's body language and the fact that Libby was taking photos, demonstrates the casual unconcern two girls enjoying the day, not the eager anticipation and electricity of the possibility of meeting someone you or your friend is interested in.

I don't think a 13 year old is too smart for the FBI. They have her devices. If she had secret social media they would have found it.

 

[apples12]

It was so difficult to understand the new request for car information in the Social Services Building that has since been torn down. I have been stewing on that since Monday. MOO it probably connects to the new sketch.

 

[weepingangel]

I’ve been considering the timing of the audio vs the video the past few days. If it was recorded separately from the video. Is this known at all?

How can any of us be sure the audio the police leaked (" Guys.... Down the hill....") was from the START of the crime, and not from the END of the crime? Everyone seems to be assuming the audio the police gave was from the start of the crime, from when the attacker first started to lead the girls "down the hill." But where is the evidence of that being true? Maybe this audio given by police was audio which was recorded by the victim's phone AFTER the attacks. Maybe this audio came from recording the attacker on a cell phone of his own, trying to get "help" around the area to get his friends to help cover his crime or hide the bodies, and he was telling them where he was.

It's speculation on my part to a certain extent (I haven't any evidence that the police outright stated that the audio came from before the attacks) and I welcome my inquiries being debunked, but I haven't seen LE coming out and saying exactly when the audio was recorded in regards to the murders. I welcome clarification if it is available. If it is not available, then I must ask this question: to what extent does the time frame of the audio impact the research and narrative surrounding the crimes?

 

[Jabarn]

How can any of us be sure the audio the police leaked (" Guys.... Down the hill....") was from the START of the crime, and not from the END of the crime? Everyone seems to be assuming the audio the police gave was from the start of the crime, from when the attacker first started to lead the girls "down the hill." But where is the evidence of that being true? Maybe this audio given by police was audio which was recorded by the victim's phone AFTER the attacks. Maybe this audio came from recording the attacker on a cell phone of his own, trying to get "help" around the area to get his friends to help cover his crime or hide the bodies, and he was telling them where he was.

It's speculation on my part to a certain extent (I haven't any evidence that the police outright stated that the audio came from before the attacks) and I welcome my inquiries being debunked, but I haven't seen LE coming out and saying exactly when the audio was recorded in regards to the murders. I welcome clarification if it is available. If it is not available, then I must ask this question: to what extent does the time frame of the audio impact the research and narrative surrounding the crimes?

I know a YouTube video where the voice capture is overplayed with the video capture, so that might be confusing. All the same, the vid was captured toward the end of the bridge where there is a downward hill and he says “down the hill,” so it makes sense the voice capture and vid were close to the same time.

The “guys” isn’t as interesting to me in what part of the country that is said for both girls and boys, but that it is said in a context of addressing more than one person.

 

[gitana1]

Has it actually been stated by LE that there is more of Libby's recording than they have released?

I believe it has indeed. And the police stated:

"Libby recorded the suspect on video with her cellphone. At the time, Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum praised the teen's actions.

“This young lady is a hero, there is no doubt. To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur," Slocum said."

Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

 

[Tillicum]

Well can someone link to a specific post in the scanner thread where we can start?

Start at pages 9 and 10. I'm finding page 10 interesting.

 

[IronOrchid]

To elaborate on the audio, what if we speculate there was one attacker initially, but also another person involved in the crime to a lesser extent? What if the person who committed the initial attack was on his own cell phone/radio and he was signaling his location to others after the initial crime.

For example:

"Hey guys..."

(Unreleased audio, possibly another person asking whoever instigated/committed the attacks, " Where are you?")

"Down the hill..."

This is speculation but such a time frame allowing for a second party could explain the audio break, in the audio leak law enforcement gave to the public. I don't know how right I am about this stuff again, but I thought it was an idea worth floating and I welcome correction. But as I have written before, without proof that the infamous "Down the hill" audio was recorded by the victim's cell phone before the instigation of the crime and not afterwards, it does stand to reason that the audio timeline is up for dispute.

 

[gitana1]

That is what I meant. That they KNOW who it is, so why can't they get what they need to arrest.

Then I wonder why don't they have enough to arrest if they have enough to put out a sketch (going on my theory they KNOW who it is)

That PC was just the weirdest thing I have ever seen and I am trying to figure it all out.

I do not st all believe the sketch is based on a specific, identified person. It's based on an eyewitness. Or witnesses.

Still, they may at this point have a strong suspicion or belief but belief does not equal probable cause.

 

[mekeritrig]

This is just pure speculation but I think the shift in the investigation could have occurred due to one of BG's friends rolling on him after being arrested for an unrelated crime.

The detail that makes me want to believe this is that the police seemed pretty sure BG is from the area. It would be a mistake to alert the suspect to the fact that you have an idea where he lives if he still has the ability to flee the State and go into hiding somewhere. I think he's either known to police and being watched or currently in custody on unrelated charges.