Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Joolz1975]

If liberty started recording him and the phone in her pocket so he wouldn't see it, which is the reason I think he didn't take it, at what point would she take it out and stop recording, without him noticing, not that I think she would even have the opportunity? Jmo

I don't think she did stop it.

 

[fred&edna]

You are remembering correctly. It was said in an interview of Libby's GF on the night that they were still listed as "missing". I watched that recently as it was linked by a WS poster. It was the first I had heard that they initially thought that Libby might have tried to go to visit her mom. And I also, like you, was wondering how they thought she would have tried to get there.

Thank you for confirming the info. I was trying to find old posts about it... Without much luck.

 

[rosesfromangels]

A bit of (amateur) thinking out loud…

My strongest speculation all along has been that Abby was catfished online, and she intended to meet up with a cute teenage boy in a remote area. Libby, her faithful friend, came along for support and safety. We know the outcome.

I 100% believe this was well planned ahead of time. It appears the Perp came well prepared with his murderous tools under his jacket, stuffed down his pants, and in that fanny-looking pack. Perhaps he had a gun, stun gun, knife, or hatchet. I believe there were other “tools” as well. Seems like he was accustomed to carrying gear, such as a hunter would.

He was confident, knew the area well, and had conducted dry runs. The area he picked must have worked from an acoustic perspective, and he would have checked that out ahead of time as well. No one heard their crys, or at least that hasn’t been reported in the press. The sound did not carry, and he knew it wouldn’t.

So how are they connected? Clearly he knows the area very, very well. How did, and why did he connect with Abby if my theory is correct? i’ve heard some reports that Abby didn’t have a phone or wasn’t active on social media. Baloney. All kids that age figure out a way, and use programs their parents have absolutely no idea about whatsoever. They use friends phones, library computers, whatever. They are sneaky, and tech savvy. They cover their tracks well.

I think this is someone loosely tied to her family that doesn’t live in town, but knows the town well. LE has suggested this as well. I believe they were communicating, (albeit she thought he was a cute teen boy), and arranged to meet. We know the rest.

I would think about anyone even loosely attached to Abby’s family that might have paid special attention to Abby. Gave her a little nickname, brought her gifts/candy, teased her, tickled her, gave her piggy back rides, and so forth. Handsy. That’s where Id look. The one everyone says - "Gee, Sam is so good with kids!" That guy. (No offense to the Sams of the world). I don't think she knew him well, but he had occasion to be at her family home. Again, some loose connection.

Of course this is all amateur opinion and speculation!

 

[allboys]

Went through every frame (48 frames) and noticed a big artifact (rectangle) in some of them. It may evoke there is something. However, you can see in this (frame) image, there is no bag:

View attachment 181439

Funny, I still very clearly see the bag. It’s just not out to the side quite as much in this frame.

But admittedly, when seeing videos that have been “fine tuned” in various cases, sometimes even if the goal is to bring out clarity, I know it can have the opposite effect...making things appear that aren’t really there. I wonder if GH sees a bag. I’ve only heard a small fraction of his commentary on this case/video/audio evidence.

 

[Joolz1975]

A bit of (amateur) thinking out loud…

My strongest speculation all along has been that Abby was catfished online, and she intended to meet up with a cute teenage boy in a remote area. Libby, her faithful friend, came along for support and safety. We know the outcome.

I 100% believe this was well planned ahead of time. It appears the Perp came well prepared with his murderous tools under his jacket, stuffed down his pants, and in that fanny-looking pack. Perhaps he had a gun, stun gun, knife, or hatchet. I believe there were other “tools” as well. Seems like he was accustomed to carrying gear, such as a hunter would.

He was confident, knew the area well, and had conducted dry runs. The area he picked must have worked from an acoustic perspective, and he would have checked that out ahead of time as well. No one heard their crys, or at least that hasn’t been reported in the press. The sound did not carry, and he knew it wouldn’t.

So how are they connected? Clearly he knows the area very, very well. How did, and why did he connect with Abby if my theory is correct? i’ve heard some reports that Abby didn’t have a phone or wasn’t active on social media. Baloney. All kids that age figure out a way, and use programs their parents have absolutely no idea about whatsoever. They use friends phones, library computers, whatever. They are sneaky, and tech savvy. They cross their tracks well.

I think this is someone loosely tied to her family that doesn’t live in town, but knows the town well. LE has suggested this as well. I believe they were communicating, and arranged to meet. We know the rest.

I would think about anyone even loosely attached to Abby’s family that always paid special attention to Abby. Gave her little nicknames, brought her gifts/candy, teased her, tickled her, gave her piggy back rides, and so forth. Handsy. That’s where Id look. The one everyone says - "Gee, Sam is so good with kids!" That guy. (No offense to the Sams of the world).

Of course this is all amateur opinion and speculation!

I saw an interview where Abby's mum was asked this question and she said if the girls were planning to meet someone that Abby would have taken more care of her appearance that day as she had a messy bun, an old t shirt, Libbys sweeter and old jeans on (or words to that effect) she did not believe the girls were meeting anyone.

It's a good theory but surely LE would have evidence off their social media etc..if any arrangements to meet were done online.

 

[Boxer]

And there have been many crimes where LE "knew" who the perpetrator was but could not gather enough evidence to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. The justice system is not a process of "truth finding" unfortunately. The system works best for those with the ability to spin the evidence and sway a jury, not for those seeking the truth. imo

MOO The police need enough suspicion based in evidence to create probable cause in order to get a warrant to collect evidence.
Police and DA know the rules well and have no problem getting a judge to issue a warrant when its justified.

 

[tmar]

Moo, but I think that if I were the witness that provided the younger looking sketch, that is now the person of interest, I would have been very vocal about it early on.

But if you were vocal, you could be 'removed' due to your knowledge, by the suspect OR any of his supporters.
The suspect, so adept at disguise, could do this, and you would perhaps never know.
LE keep such matters confidential.
We have all heard how any possible leaks from the public with input on possible suspects, has led to major problems for these innocents.
Similarly with a witness.
Their identity is not exposed.
MOO.

How I wish K-9s were more of a regular part with LE. Wouldn’t it have been interesting to have let a dog sniff around the site after the bodies were removed and then walk past each searcher? I wonder if a dog may have stopped at one particular searcher.

If the searchers interviewed (on video) and there are others, were sniffed by these clever K9 dogs, we could have had an immediate result.
A previous poster fully described interest he/she has shown in two of these searchers by their mannerisms.
MOO.

 

[gitana1]

I think we need to be careful about ascribing motives to others based on our own experience as “normative” human beings. What appears to be true is the presence of an abnormal gait. I am with others who noticed that earlier as well. Why is not clear to me. One simple explanation could be the load this POI appears to be carrying, combined with the need to step intentionally due to the bridge structure. However, to then ascribe avoidance of risk as a reason a person with such a gait might not cross such a bridge is mixing filters. Serial killer traits include high impulsivity and high need for risk.

An expert reveals the 12 key traits common in serial killers, and some of them might surprise you

But didn't LE state to watch his mannerisms but that his gait was odd due to walking on the bridge?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I saw an interview where Abby's mum was asked this question and she said if the girls were planning to meet someone that Abby would have taken more care of her appearance that day as she had a messy bun, an old t shirt, Libbys sweeter and old jeans on (or words to that effect) she did not believe the girls were meeting anyone.

It's a good theory but surely LE would have evidence off their social media etc..if any arrangements to meet were done online.

I thought the same after I saw the picture of her that day. She didn't look spiffed up to meet a boy. So let me toss this out then...what if she told him that's what she was going to be doing? And I hold firm to the speculation she absolutely had hidden social media accounts.

As always, amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Wild Rose]

If liberty started recording him and then put the phone in her pocket so he wouldn't see it, which is the reason I think he didn't take it, at what point would she take it out and stop recording, without him noticing, not that I think she would even have the opportunity? Jmo

Edited to fix typos

I always thought he might have flashed a badge for compliance. I remember at a beginning presser how completely upset a row of LE was, so that's what made me think that. Betrayal of the badge maybe IMO. She might have slipped her phone away if she thought she was going to be arrested for trespassing, then you have to put out your hands. I hope they catch him soon.

 

[moonlessnight]

I agree that it is hair, and blown far forward to the eyebrows (such a horrible haircut, IMO).

Im looking at the image again as if that is thick hair blown forward like Justin Bieber.
and I cannot unsee it...it's NOT A HAT. that is very a distinctive haircut.

and yes I believe the killer is threatening to kill again and the visibly shaken LE is evidence of this ongoing struggle.

there could also be other dangers surrounding this person, maybe vulnerable children, wives, frightened persons who have tipped them off. could be that the parabon doesn't age the suspect so you have to pick the age you think is closest to the photo. But that cop was as nervous as a cat during that presser...he was nervous and appeared TORMENTED.

this killer I think would enjoy the attention and the power .he would enjoy threatening
Delphi.

I hope they all stay safe and keep their girls at home. mOO

 

[margarita25]

Has it been stated by LE that the backpack in question was thought to have belonged to BG? Maybe Abby or Libby had a backpack with them that was missing at the crime scene. Jmo

Are you referring the duffle bag?

“While investigators have narrowed their search to this one man for the time being, they have expanded the geography of their search. They believe that if the man was from Delphi, someone from the town of roughly 3,000 people would have already identified him.

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.”

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

 

[flashy09]

If you mean why can't they force DNA if they "know" who it is, they may feel they know but they still need probable cause.

That is what I meant. That they KNOW who it is, so why can't they get what they need to arrest.

Then I wonder why don't they have enough to arrest if they have enough to put out a sketch (going on my theory they KNOW who it is)

That PC was just the weirdest thing I have ever seen and I am trying to figure it all out.

 

[margarita25]

“Saturday, thousands of people attended a public visitation for the girls, who were laid to rest Sunday. Visitors have been placing flowers at the Monon High Bridge where the girls were last seen for much of the past week.“

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide
PUBLISHED: FEB 20TH, 2017 - 12:55PM (EST)UPDATED: FEB 23RD, 2017 - 2:07PM (EST)

I wonder if he is one out of the “thousands”.

 

[cluciano63]

They must have cleared this other man of the original sketch just recently to not alert the public he was no longer a suspect sooner, I guess? Wonder why it took two years and happened to correspond with deciding on the new image?

 

[CoreyRocks]

Delphi: Unseen photos of Libby & Abby

Wow. Beautiful pix. I'm crying.

 

[apples12]

Just had a peek I'm going to save that thread for tommorow.

MOO The police need enough suspicion based in evidence to create probable cause in order to get a warrant to collect evidence.
Police and DA know the rules well and have no problem getting a judge to issue a warrant when its justified.

MOO I believe the police have this case solved. I don't know their reasoning for how it is unfolding but I trust it will soon be over.

 

[MistyWaters]

You are remembering correctly. It was said in an interview of Libby's GF on the night that they were still listed as "missing". I watched that recently as it was linked by a WS poster. It was the first I had heard that they initially thought that Libby might have tried to go to visit her mom. And I also, like you, was wondering how they thought she would have tried to get there.

Yes I remember too, Libby’s other grandfather from Flora talked about that as a possibility. When reliable teenagers go missing I think it’s absolutely natural to dream up any possible reason rather than imagine the very worst.

Feb 17, 2017
“DB said the local area was a place where 'kids play until sunset and then they come home' and that he believed the Monon High Bridge was a 'hangout'.

He added: 'I've never been there but the girls had taken my wife Chris out there last summer I believe.'

He said that he and his wife had a call from family in Delphi on Monday afternoon, alerting them to the fact that the girls had gone missing.

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

'You don't know – a 14-year-old girl, she could have had an argument. Things like that go through your mind.

'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

'And then they'll get tired and come back tomorrow morning or they'll call. Something like that.'

However, Bridge said that his granddaughter was conscientious and he didn't believe that she would have simply lost track of time....”
Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[LeeLeeBird]

Regarding the 2/22 SP Carter’s Press Conference in Delphi, IN:

I keep thinking about his reference to
“two little girls…two children…”

Carter was trying to make BG feel more awful and beastly, more remorseful & guilty by reiterating that they were “children…little girls”, not young women.

If any of you Websleuthers were to actually hang out with Abby and Libby-- or know them in real life; would any of you consider calling Abby and Libby “little girls” or “children”?

I might refer to them as “middle-schoolers” or “kids”, "teenagers", “pre-teens”, or (just) “girls”, “young ladies” or “young women”. I would not call them “little girls”. MOO.

Carter was attempting to appeal to this side of BG’s psyche…the oath BG took to protect "little girls", "children", the community.
IMO: LE thinks that BG is a father, uncle, brother, cousin or care provider to a little girl (or little girls or children). Or, LE Feels that BG is a teacher, pastor, coach. A person who is considered a trusted, sworn protector of the people
(& little girls); or even LE of some sort, state trooper, etc.

IMO:
LE has a strong idea to who BG is via familial DNA—familial DNA that is pinpointed to a particular family cluster that lives in Delphi.
(Like how California LE eventually found the Golden State Killer).

Tracing DNA via familial lineage must be painstaking, must have many dead-ends, must be months-long work.

As stated during the PC, Carter said,
“A question to you: What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children!”

Again:
“What will those closest to you think of you when they find out”…
LE knows that BG is from a tight family, or a brethren, or a community that cares deeply about family/community relationships.

IMO & MOO:
They think BG is NOT a loner,
BG has people that care for him.

 

[Miigo]

What are the chances BG is following this thread with us, possibly even posting!?