Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Charlot123]

IMHO, it was an extremely bloody crime scene.

God. Poor families.

 

[Boro55]

This is RTV6 helicopter video from the afternoon they found the girls. If you start at the 19:00 mark you'll see two searchers in the water next to the bank near where the girls were found (located about 50' from the bank in the woods per reports). Next is a line of searchers crossing the creek. It's not terribly deep. At the 20:27 mark one of the searchers reaches down into the water, like he found something, the water appears to be about shin deep on him. The searchers are shown again around the 26:00 or a little after in much deeper water (waist deep on some) but still walking. If you have time to watch the entire video it will give you a better lay of the land.

Nice post i have not seen this before, what i find interesting is when the camera starts panning right @ about 22 seconds and passes by the old building before being torn down.
this video is of the day of the search feb14th?, then look at the area by the old building i swear i see what looks like a white vehicle sitting there?

maybe someone good at the video enhancement like redbeard can give us a better look!

 

[MsBetsy]

But, the bodies were located UP stream and 60 feet (or so) from the water's edge. Plus, I don't want to offend anyone, but that would be a lot of weight to move. moo

I have always wondered if he dragged the bodies across the creek to wash them of DNA evidence, and also to wash any blood off of himself.
A big man like that could easily drag them, one at a time, 50 or 60 feet.
Jodi Arias, and other murderers, dragged or carried victims who were heavier than themselves.
So I think he was capable, and since they were found so close to the water, it's possible that he did attempt to get rid of evidence this way. Jmo

 

[TTF14]

I have always wondered if he dragged the bodies across the creek to wash them of DNA evidence, and also to wash any blood off of himself.
A big man like that could easily drag them, one at a time, 50 or 60 feet.
Jodi Arias, and other murderers, have dragged or carried victims who were heavier than themselves.
So I think he was capable, and since they were found so close to the water, its possible that he did attempt to get rid of evidence this way. Jmo

I don't see this happening in broad daylight when kids are off school. Way too risky unless he was planning to kill anyone and everyone he encountered that day.

 

[NancyDrew3]

I would not exclude the sale of related photos or video on the dark web with respect to previous comments related to video on this topic. GoPro type of technology, unfortunately, can easily be used for something like this. And also unfortunately, others with similar abnormal tendencies will pay money to view it. Serial killers, who need power over others, also often take mementos from victims to relive the killing, as we know. The GSK in California was found to have a large collection of objects from victims. I assume the ISP and FBI are looking or have looked into these aspects. I also sincerely hope if there is a related illegal *advertiser censored* ring that it gets taken down as well and the participants held accountable.

 

[Jax49]

I have always wondered if he dragged the bodies across the creek to wash them of DNA evidence, and also to wash any blood off of himself.
A big man like that could easily drag them, one at a time, 50 or 60 feet.
Jodi Arias, and other murderers, have dragged or carried victims who were heavier than themselves.
So I think he was capable, and since they were found so close to the water, its possible that he did attempt to get rid of evidence this way. Jmo

I've convinced if they were moved 50-60 feet from the creek, drag marks would have been visible and as best I can tell, they weren't. Of course, he could be a lot stronger than I think but people who crossed the creek mentioned how slippery it was. moo

(I've been totally wrong before, so it won't surprise me if I am now.)

 

[SilentRogue]

MOO. I agree, old school: Opportunity, motive, means.

New school: Placing the defendant at the scene or with the instrument of the crime is half the battle.

 

[kiaatcher]

I have always wondered if he dragged the bodies across the creek to wash them of DNA evidence, and also to wash any blood off of himself.
A big man like that could easily drag them, one at a time, 50 or 60 feet.
Jodi Arias, and other murderers, have dragged or carried victims who were heavier than themselves.
So I think he was capable, and since they were found so close to the water, its possible that he did attempt to get rid of evidence this way. Jmo

Also, imagine the amount of adrenaline one must have after killing, and how that could have impacted his ability to move dead weight that far. Humans are capable of doing the impossible in such high-intensity situations.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Regarding steroids (prednisone, not the weight lifter kind), while I don’t see any sensible reason to consider them, they can make you hostile and moody. I’ve been on them many times. The time I was on them for months I was a raging lunatic. They gave me insomnia, mood swings, low blood sugar, and rage. I was truly temporarily insane.

But did you kill someone?

 

[travelbug]

My take with the NEW DIRECTION and JUST GETTING STARTED is that they are just getting started with putting together their case now for the DA. They've already pinned it to someone specifically IMO. Now it's time to build the necessary evidence house

I agree, the press conference was a warning to the perp "we know who you are and will be watching you like a hawk, so don't try anything". The realization of the "who" may have been like finding the spider in a web. Now they are putting the pieces together of how many may have been caught in that web. If the family recognized the male in the new sketch, LE may have asked them to be silent for 2 weeks while they build their case.

 

[CoreyRocks]

WS has a small thread about a missing person in Indiana. 23 year old man missing, this month, about 50 miles away.

 

[x_files]

Can anyone think of a case where a murderer felt guilty years after the crime and turned themselves in?

I cannot.

I believe since the Press Conference the Detective mentioned THE SHACK, was a reference to the suspect being religious with a strict religious upbringing. I immediately thought they referring to a religious man or a son of a preacher. The detective hopes their guilty conscious will force them to turn themselves in esp. if they aren't a psychopath but still have some consciousness or empathy in them. Maybe even to spare their parents more grief. But I fear the parents may be in denial or helped cover up the crime (afterward. Son confesses. Father does nothing. Prays to God.)
The mention of that film right before Easter when sons returning from college, gather to attend church and visit family. The timing of the PR is extremely important to get the family to start thinking about those young girls again to tug their heartstrings.
The newer sketch does indict a young teen/adult or a youthful babyface adult. So, started thinking he was a teen or young adult two years ago, either had no school that day or wasn't in college just yet.
Lives close to Delphi or in it.
What happens in two weeks? College classes end and son returns home for the summer.

 

[MsBetsy]

Nice post i have not seen this before, what i find interesting is when the camera starts panning right @ about 22 seconds and passes by the old building before being torn down.
this video is of the day of the search feb14th?, then look at the area by the old building i swear i see what looks like a white vehicle sitting there?

maybe someone good at the video enhancement like redbeard can give us a better look!

Those video enhancements were very good, but I think they were removed because it was against the rules.
I don't know about the car, though.
I haven't seen the helicopter video. Is it posted here somewhere?

 

[jobid]

Sorry if this has been discussed (I’m trying to keep up!!) - if they now believe the monster is local, local ties, visits, etc..., is there a threat to other local girls? I don’t recall any ‘warning’ - but I’d sure as hell keep my daughters under lock & key... because if no warning, does it suggest the girls were targeted?

 

[x_files]

I really wasn’t on board with those saying LE has a person in mind, but now I am. I do think it is going to turn out to be a betrayal of the community. I hope this goes quickly.




Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby so why don't you kill me?

I also have full confidence LE knows exactly who did the crime. They are hoping the parents of the young man come forward first.
I, however, feel it may be a team, father and son.
Father and son went to the park that day to enjoy a nice walk, and son did something father helped cover it up out of fear or both are predators that work in tandem.

 

[Boro55]

Those video enhancements were very good, but I think they were removed because it was against the rules.
I don't know about the car, though.
I haven't seen the helicopter video. Is it posted here somewhere?

i thought i linked it in my previous response(expanded)

 

[CSIDreamer]

Probably a good idea to skim, rather than skipping every other page. That way, we don’t miss posts like this.

Or you can make sure it gets bumped to an even numbered AND an odd numbered page.

 

[x_files]

Sorry if this has been discussed (I’m trying to keep up!!) - if they now believe the monster is local, local ties, visits, etc..., is there a threat to other local girls? I don’t recall any ‘warning’ - but I’d sure as hell keep my daughters under lock & key... because if no warning, does it suggest the girls were targeted?

I would definitely stay vigilant if I was a local. If the killer is in college. Classes are out for summer in approx. two weeks. No evidence the two girls were targeted vs a random crime of opportunity. So, he could strike again.
Any missing persons/sexual assault/assault crimes in neighboring cities? In about 20-30 minutes radius in the past five years?

 

[cfreyja23]

Found on a victim, yes. Found in a random place in public, not so much.

I disagree. If his DNA is anywhere near the crime scene, even on something that would at first be considered unrelated to the crime scene, like a coke can, that ties him to the area. And of all the places in the world, DNA probably lasts the least outdoors, so one could infer that the DNA was left relatively recently (as opposed to an innocent person who visited the trails months before and dropped the can). Can a skilled defense attorney raise doubt from that DNA sample? Sure, but the standard isn't beyond all doubt, it's reasonable doubt. If I was juror in that case, it would be strong circumstantial evidence for me.

 

[Jax49]

Those video enhancements were very good, but I think they were removed because it was against the rules.
I don't know about the car, though.
I haven't seen the helicopter video. Is it posted here somewhere?

This is the link I use.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154523478509092