Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[Deleted member 230385]

I keep going back to the vehicle "abandoned" at the social service building on the 13th between noon and 5pm. Who would have seen that vehicle or even noticed it? LE wasn't called until after 5pm about the girls being missing so that vehicle would have been gone.

Makes me think that during the course of the day (prior to the girls even going missing) a patrol car saw the vehicle parked at the building which was no longer occupied and found it out of sorts and called it in to run its tags. I hardly think the casual person passing by that building would take note of the vehicle being parked there especially having such specifics as to the time of noon til 5pm.

I wonder if there were any signs posted on that property (social service building) saying something like "No parking", "vehicles parked here will be towed at owners expense", "no trespassing" and so on. Such a sign at that property would make a patrol vehicle check out a vehicle parked there.

I recall that a Delphi local commented somewhere that she herself would park in the lot when walking the trail. Does anyone else remember this? I got the impression that it wasn’t unusual to park there for whatever reason. It does have easy walking access to the trail.

I also wonder if family members noticed the vehicle parked there during their preliminary search, prior to 5pm.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If LE says it, I'll believe it. Otherwise, everything else is just rumor to me.

I agree. Rumors are just that and LE is our best source. However, at this point, I don’t necessarily believe everything LE says anymore either. Not that I think they are purposely lying, but they have admitted to being off target for the last 2 years, so my confidence is a bit shaken. I’m concerned they may have missed something the last two years, they dismissed a lead or only half-heartedly followed it because they were so invested in the first sketch guy and whatever scenario that included. I hope lessons have been learned and they are close now to arresting the killer.

 

[teeandcee]

If the car parked at the abandoned building is the killer’s I wonder why he’d park out in the open like that knowing he could park more privately near the trail.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

A witness saw the vehicle late in the morning, before Noon. The individual is a civilian.

I drove by the building in August of 2017, no signs were posted, and it was a building that was easy to miss. Same as the parking area where the girls were dropped off, easy to miss. You'd have to be looking for it in order to notice, and take note of, it.

No tags were run of the vehicle parked there, we'd know by now, in fact we would have known early on. LE stated early on they thought BG hitch hiked out of there, which I thought was ludicrous. Turns out at least one witness contacted LE in the those first couple of weeks about a vehicle parked at the abandoned building, but it wasn't until last week that LE mentioned it publicly. I find this odd, although similar tactics have been used in other high-profile investigations. Note they didn't give a description. the description I've seen is kinda vague.

JMO

In my rabbit hole search yesterday looking for the mystery teen witness to the “man in Black”. I ran across an early report, right after the discovery of the bodies/autopsy that they were looking for information in any cars seen in the area during the time of the crime.
So a local may have noticed something then.
I so wish a patrol had seen the car and ran the plates. Likely we wouldn’t still be waiting for arrest today.

 

[Deleted member 230385]

Regarding the prominent chin discussion... the other feature that stands out to me in the suspect sketch is the short amount of space between his upper lip and nose. MOO.

 

[FinePrint]

A witness saw the vehicle late in the morning, before Noon. The individual is a civilian.

I drove by the building in August of 2017, no signs were posted, and it was a building that was easy to miss. Same as the parking area where the girls were dropped off, easy to miss. You'd have to be looking for it in order to notice, and take note of, it.

No tags were run of the vehicle parked there, we'd know by now, in fact we would have known early on. LE stated early on they thought BG hitch hiked out of there, which I thought was ludicrous. Turns out at least one witness contacted LE in the those first couple of weeks about a vehicle parked at the abandoned building, but it wasn't until last week that LE mentioned it publicly. I find this odd, although similar tactics have been used in other high-profile investigations. Note they didn't give a description. the description I've seen is kinda vague.

JMO

Before noon?

 

[ocgrad]

A witness saw the vehicle late in the morning, before Noon. The individual is a civilian.

I drove by the building in August of 2017, no signs were posted, and it was a building that was easy to miss. Same as the parking area where the girls were dropped off, easy to miss. You'd have to be looking for it in order to notice, and take note of, it.

No tags were run of the vehicle parked there, we'd know by now, in fact we would have known early on. LE stated early on they thought BG hitch hiked out of there, which I thought was ludicrous. Turns out at least one witness contacted LE in the those first couple of weeks about a vehicle parked at the abandoned building, but it wasn't until last week that LE mentioned it publicly. I find this odd, although similar tactics have been used in other high-profile investigations. Note they didn't give a description. the description I've seen is kinda vague.

JMO

I've seen locals say it is not an uncommon place to park to access the trail. Is it possible that someone else parked there and when asked to report what they saw they remembered the other vehicle(s) around them that day?

 

[NancyDrew3]

What's everyone's thoughts about the fact that the ISP left a laptop desktop/background up on the projector screen for all to see for a time at the press conference? There were a lot of files/icons on that screen, all named.

Was this an accident or on purpose? Thoughts?

In my industry, showing your desktop to customers during a presentation is not the professional standard of conduct, due to the possibility of unintentionally communicating information about other customers, particularly under non-disclosure agreements. Given ISP and FBI involvement, I would not expect this to have happened nor for it to be up there as long as it was if it were unintentional, particularly to a world-wide audience.

 

[DancingMuse]

If the car parked at the abandoned building is the killer’s I wonder why he’d park out in the open like that knowing he could park more privately near the trail.

You make an excellent point, Teeandcee;

BG could have walked home.

BG could have gotten picked up by a friend (or co-worker, relative, significant other) either by pre-arrangement or calling them to drive out & get him .

 

[Deleted member 230385]

If the car parked at the abandoned building is the killer’s I wonder why he’d park out in the open like that knowing he could park more privately near the trail.

IMO he wouldn’t want to park at the trailhead because anyone else walking the trail might notice him getting in or out of his vehicle.

 

[FinePrint]

I recall that a Delphi local commented somewhere that she herself would park in the lot when walking the trail. Does anyone else remember this? I got the impression that it wasn’t unusual to park there for whatever reason. It does have easy walking access to the trail.

I also wonder if family members noticed the vehicle parked there during their preliminary search, prior to 5pm.

Yeah, to me it seems like a place I would park too especially if that little drop off area is filled up. Just was wondering if there were "no parking" signs posted there. Per @Falling Down as of 8/2017 there was not.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Several photo and video experts have addressed this on various platforms. They've explained the pixelation and impurities that come from cropping the video to get the image still. Someone else went there and measured the distances and found that if that was Abby's arm/shoulder then half of her would literally be off the bridge in that shot. While none of that is official, the cases that have been made are enough to convince me. I don't think that's Abby's arm.

I hope one day that we will get to see that video in a trial. Abby was thin and the video was taken from an angle so I still believe it’s her.

Do you have any links to these experts? I would love to hear what they have to say on this subject.

 

[K9Enzo]

In my industry, showing your desktop to customers during a presentation is not the professional standard of conduct, due to the possibility of unintentionally communicating information about other customers, particularly under non-disclosure agreements. Given ISP and FBI involvement, I would not expect this to have happened nor for it to be up there as long as it was if it were unintentional.

Yes! Safeguards. I would be terminated.

 

[bkgregg5]

In my industry, showing your desktop to customers during a presentation is not the professional standard of conduct, due to the possibility of unintentionally communicating information about other customers, particularly under non-disclosure agreements. Given ISP and FBI involvement, I would not expect this to have happened nor for it to be up there as long as it was if it were unintentional.

Did anyone happen to screenshot the tv screen when this was on? The file folders up on screen? I noticed it as well and thought it was unusual.

 

[ocgrad]

I agree it's pretty much irelavant I'm going to stop mentioning sketch 1.

It's so hard to get something out of your mind that you have assumed is correct for so long though.

I feel like I need a partial lobotomy to get that picture out of my mind.

I was reading about sketches, botched attempts, the FBI FACE software program, etc. One difficulty with sketches is that after seeing a sketch, witnesses find it more difficult to recognize an actual suspect in a lineup because they have accepted the sketch as who they saw not what the person actually looks like!

 

[Ajl48]

If the car parked at the abandoned building is the killer’s I wonder why he’d park out in the open like that knowing he could park more privately near the trail.

He may have been more familiar with that place, and felt more comfortable parking there. It also meant he didn't have to cross the bridge again to get back to the trail lot and escape. Cuts the possibility of being seen returning from the crime scene in half really.

 

[Gumbeaux]

Some one said they thought there was something like a cleft lip repair or scar something on the picture of the suspect.They said some one said that on the panel today.Did anyone else see this and do you know what that person said?

@Joolz1975 The quote above is the original one I was responding to. Given the wording, I did not know what “panel today” Ms. Suzanne was referring to (and the HLN special report was days ago).

Apologies, but I wasn’t clear based on the verbiage of the post. I did watch the entire HLN special report, and their discussion was that the most distinguishing feature of the sketch is a disproportionately long chin.

BBM

The HLN show has been discussed in depth over the last few days with very few links been shared.

I think it's obvious the poster was on about that show even if at first she was not very explicit about it so can't see that she has broken the TOS and if she has then dozens of other posters surely have over the past two days also.

To the poster that asked I've seen snippets of the show on you tube but not actually the sketch artists point of view so not sure about the things you mentioned but I do remember the eye detail and the possible cleft lip coming up in discussion back on the previous thread so might be worth looking back. As I say I havnt seen that portion of the HLN show so whether the points were raised by the experts on the show or posters on here made that assumption about the eyes and lips I don't know.

 

[Gardener1850]

Found this article in the Seattle Times dated 18th of May 2018
Talbott was identified through genetic genealogy, the same technique that led to the arrest last month of Joseph James DeAngelo, the alleged serial rapist and killer known as the Golden State Killer in California.

After DeAngelo’s arrest, some scientists and ethicists expressed concerns about law enforcement identifying suspects through the DNA of relatives, who used sites such as Ancestry.com or 23andMe to generate their own DNA profiles and then uploaded them to GEDmatch, a public genetic-genealogy website, The New York Times reported.

In April, investigators from Snohomish and Skagit counties announced they had sent DNA from Van Cuylenborg’s killer to Parabon NanoLabs, which provided scientific approximations of what the killer might look like based on traits embedded in his genetic code.

From there, a digital file containing DNA genotype data derived from the crime scene was uploaded to GEDmatch, and promising matches were found for two of Talbott’s relatives, according to the Sheriff’s Office.


Parabon’s CEO, Steve Armentrout, said Friday his lab began offering genetic genealogy two weeks ago. He said the privacy concerns that have been raised are based on misconceptions and noted Talbott’s DNA profile was never made public on GEDmatch, never appeared in any queries, and complied with the site’s use

What’s crazy, is that they’ve identified over 40 suspects since that article was published.

Another one announced yesterday, and seemingly, one or two a week now.

Amazing stuff.

Novel DNA technique leads to arrest in 1994 cold case murder of young mom

OT: For those interested in the subject we have a thread here tracking cases solved by the genetic genealogy methods used by Parabon: DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.

Also see the thread for DNA Doe Project Discussion (DDP uses the same genetic genealogy methods as Parabon to solve Unidentified Deceased cases): DNA Doe Project - General Discussion

 

[FinePrint]

He may have been more familiar with that place, and felt more comfortable parking there. It also meant he didn't have to cross the bridge again to get back to the trail lot and escape. Cuts the possibility of being seen returning from the crime scene in half really.

Welcome to WS Ajl48!

 

[Jerrod]

If Carter was made aware of the unattended vehicle early on, he wasn’t forthcoming about it at the one-year anniversary:

FOX59 asked whether the killer fled in a vehicle or did he simply walk away?

Carter answered, "Um, likely. Walked a certain distance, yes. We don't have any indication that he was close by where he parked a vehicle, because we don't have any information on a vehicle."

New tips, new subpoenas in new year of hunting for Delphi killer

 

[ocgrad]

I'm not buying, either.

moo

I'm going with the FBI composite sketch didn't take into consideration he is covered or disguised.
That they produced a sketch that looked like a guy who was soon arrested and sentenced to 157 years almost seems targeted. And while LE officers detest when fellow or former officers betray the trust, they will want to stay away from anything suggesting they created a sketch with a suspect in mind rather than using the pure input of witnesses or even admitting that their software was flawed. Better to just say, He's not the guy.