Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[TL4S]

You bring up some very valid points, Margarita. And, I believe you are correct about shoes being an important aspect of the investigation.

Your post reminded me of the first PC, where LE stated the crime scene was "very complicated". (The link for the full PC can be found on page one of the Media Thread for any new readers: IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION). There were probably hundreds of shoe prints to sort through at and near the crime scene.

At the time of their discovery, it was only believed the girl's were lost and possibly injured. Because the search teams included volunteers from the community (who may not have been aware of the importance of footprint evidence), it must have been very difficult for LE to sort through all of the tracks.

I haven't read much about the searches, but I get the sense from a lot of posts here that searchers were very near the bodies off and on that day before finding them? Is that correct?

If so, it tells me that the scene was not extraordinarily bloody (I hate even saying that). It sort of dissuades me from some of the more messy theories...

 

[bam]

My closest city has a population of 5k so IDK. Theres alot of people in the rural county that i know of but as a kid probably would not recognize or even know for that matter MOO

Even though Delphi is small town it is off of interstate I-65 and close to Lafayette, Indiana which is a college town Purdue University.

 

[ab01]

Even though Delphi is small town it is off of interstate I-65 and close to Lafayette, Indiana which is a college town Purdue University.

Yep I agree, hard to know everyone

 

[Boxer]

Case Search - MyCase

A poster asked about whether old DA Ives returning to the DA office was a rumor. Here is the court doc from Ives swearing back in 4/2/2019.

 

[Jax49]

I haven't read much about the searches, but I get the sense from a lot of posts here that searchers were very near the bodies off and on that day before finding them? Is that correct?

If so, it tells me that the scene was not extraordinarily bloody (I hate even saying that). It sort of dissuades me from some of the more messy theories...

I don't believe the searchers were ever close that night. IIRC, they expected the girls to be lost on the trails or downstream. moo

ETA: Instead, they were found on private property and upstream.

 

[margarita25]

Now, we know that sometimes perps want to insert themselves into the investigations, participate in searches/vigils, etc.

In this case I’m not so sure this is the case. We know he likely has ties to Delphi but these could be past ties. What I’m saying is that while it’s possible he attended the searches, it’s also highly possible imo that he got the heck out of dodge after the murders.

 

[TL4S]

I don't believe the searchers were ever close that night. IIRC, they expected the girls to be lost on the trails or downstream. moo

ETA: Instead, they were found on private property and upstream.

But what about the next day? The day they were found?

 

[margarita25]

I haven't read much about the searches, but I get the sense from a lot of posts here that searchers were very near the bodies off and on that day before finding them? Is that correct?

If so, it tells me that the scene was not extraordinarily bloody (I hate even saying that). It sort of dissuades me from some of the more messy theories...

Iirc it was @Steleheart that mentioned early on that blood might not have been that clearly visible due it’s potential of blending in with the leaves.

 

[Jax49]

But what about the next day? The day they were found?

Not sure I understand the question.

 

[Jax49]

Iirc it was @Steleheart that mentioned early on that blood might have not been that clearly visible due it’s potential blending in with the leaves.

Do you remember what looked like bloody leaves at the crime scene? I "know" I saw it, but I can't remember if there was an evidence marker, or not. Anyone?

ETA: I remember discussing it many threads ago.

 

[margarita25]

Do you remember what looked like bloody leaves at the crime scene? I "know" I saw it, but I can't remember if there was an evidence marker, or not. Anyone?

Hmmm...not sure Jax...

 

[TL4S]

Not sure I understand the question.

I know they were out searching for the girls the afternoon and evening they first went missing, and I know they were searching more along the trail, thinking they were just lost. But the searches must have fanned out further the next day. So in the hours immediately before the bodies were located, were searchers searching the immediate area they were found? People were talking about shoe prints all over, so I was wondering if this meant the searchers were walking all around the girls before finally noticing them?

 

[x_files]

Before I sign off for the night:

I just want to give a shoutout to the poor souls that have fielded the thousands of meaningless social media tips

God knows I wouldn’t have the patience for it

You'd be surprised I think websleuth posters would be best suited for sorting through tips.

 

[x_files]

1. Hiding. if identifying photos have been removed especially if they look like the sketch of the suspect, or if they connect the person to Delphi and everything is suddenly private that’s waving huge red flags in my opinion.

2. It’s possible the person is being harassed but I go by the old adage those with nothing to hide hide nothing.

I tend to agree but if you are innocent, getting creepy strange messages you might want to hide posts for your own safety!

 

[Jax49]

I know they were out searching for the girls the afternoon and evening they first went missing, and I know they were searching more along the trail, thinking they were just lost. But the searches must have fanned out further the next day. So in the hours immediately before the bodies were located, were searchers searching the immediate area they were found? People were talking about shoe prints all over, so I was wondering if this meant the searchers were walking all around the girls before finally noticing them?

Wish I knew for sure, but I don't think so.

All I remember for sure, is the story about a searcher seeing two deer and noticing the girls because of the deer. moo

 

[x_files]

bbm
Re the phone ringing of Libby's phone: She knew, her dad would call, when it was time to end their Monon High Bridge visit. Perhaps she was even so proactive to turn her phone to "silently" in time?
Re the way across creek: If the girls didn't run across the creek onto RL's property escaping the perp, then maybe they indeed were abducted for some hours (by some car plus driver), maybe the phone indeed pinged around town, maybe indeed the girls were brought back (after being somewhere unknown) to RL's property. The "criminal act" began, when Libby was recording BG, but an abduction is a criminal act too (not only assault/murder).
IMO MOO

or killer took the phone on Feb. 13th drove around town with it on purpose or carelessly then returned the next day after the battery died, and wiped it down placed in the search area near the girls. Do we know who found them?
It would all depend if he picked up phone with gloves or bare hands, if phone was wiped down from all prints.

 

[Boxer]

I don't believe the searchers were ever close that night. IIRC, they expected the girls to be lost on the trails or downstream. moo
ETA: Instead, they were found on private property and upstream.

Searchers went to RL's home 2/13/17.
If they walked to his house instead of driving - that walking path would likely be from the official trail end at the north end of the bridge, parallel to the road between the road and the creek. This path would have them walking behind the cemetery.
If they walked behind the cemetery the searchers were at one point on top of the escarpment that drops down to flat where girls were found.

 

[margarita25]

Thinking about shoes, tracking, and leaves, I’m wondering if this is what may or may not have been challenging as far as immediately locating the girls: if there were leaves down everywhere on top of the soil, then footprint impressions may not have been clearly visible.

Conversely, there are expert trackers, Border Patrol, etc, who can tell if “one leaf is out of place”, so I have seen them use “leaves” as potential movement/disruption/direction indicators. Considering volunteer searchers found the girls, not sure that would even have played a role.

Does this have anything to do with locating BG? No...or perhaps it does. How much of a role would the leaves have played in capturing one of BG’s footprints? Perhaps leaves were not conducive to capturing soil prints, but maybe bloody footprint(s) were captures/retained on a leaf/leaves.

I think a photo of the crime scene is in order again. I’d also like to “google walk” somehow the exact path from the bridge to where they were found. Does anyone know of a resource or perhaps specific GH video which does this? Tia.

 

[margarita25]

lol! You gave me a good laugh.

(I’m sure LE got a kick out of that as well, if they’re reading here )

 

[Snoop Sister]

Delete please