Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[MsBetsy]

Why is there so much discussion over a shoe? I don't see how it matters one way or another if/when a shoe was identified..

I missed most of the discussion but I think some were wondering if identifying one of the victims by the shoes they were wearing indicated that the bodies were covered up or unrecognizable.
I think another poster questioned it for a different reason but you are probably better off going back and reading because I don't remember the specifics.
I think the searcher just asked what color shoes she was wearing to make sure it was the girls bodies before stating that they were found.
I doubt anyone knows quite what to say when finding two dead bodies in the woods.
I don't think it necessarily means anything in particular other than that was the first thing that came to the mind of someone who was shocked and likely horrified at what they had found. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Sorry if I’ve missed this, but do we know exactly what type of shoes the girls were wearing? I’m noting that the shoes didn’t come off in the water or during the struggle, etc?

I'm not sure LE has ever revealed what kind of shoes they were wearing or whether they were found wearing them or not. At least not that I remember. Imo

 

[mekeritrig]

I'm not sure LE has ever revealed what kind of shoes they were wearing or whether they were found wearing them or not. At least not that I remember. Imo

LE hasn't revealed any details about any piece of physical evidence found at or around the crime scene.

 

[MsBetsy]

LE hasn't revealed any details about any piece of physical evidence found at or around the crime scene.

Except for the phone, I think. Imo

 

[Confusion]

It has always bothered me that there was no crime scene tape marking an area down the hill path.

I wonder if she shoved it in her waistband or handed it off to abby

BBM
That's one of the reasons I believe they crossed back over the bridge and never went into the creek.
________

I'm not real interested in shoes, so I'm just going to throw out another jumbled mess and hope something makes sense to some people. Mainly just my thoughts on different things.

I've been wondering if the girls didn't know him, but did recognize him from around town, school or somewhere they spent time. If they did discuss the "weird guy", it may be that they'd seen him on other days and had commented on him being weird.

I've also been wondering about the phone. Is it possible that continually recording for 10-15 minutes or longer, after taking pictures and possibly shooting other short videos, could have caused the battery to die before DG tried calling? It's possible that BG was already gone by that time, although I'm not sure how likely it is. I've been curious to know what her ring tone was like since it sounded like others were trying to call/text her after he was there looking for them. I'm wondering if it would have been loud enough for him to hear if the phone was undamaged and the battery head power.

The next thing is the car. The thing that makes the most sense to me is that someone saw it park/ed there. If one of the witnesses had seen him entering or exiting a car, they'd most likely have a color, condition, age range (old, late model, new, junker, etc.), and possibly the make and maybe model. They may not have said anything sooner, although they probably did a lot of research on it, because mentioning it might make it to obvious who the witness was and s/he was afraid to have BG know. By now, I'm guessing, and hoping, that he doesn't really remember who might have seen him with/in his car.

I had my DNA testing done, and it says that I have many 2nd and 3rd cousins I've never heard of; their last names don't even sound familiar. I know that 3 of my relatives I do know have uploaded their data to the same site I did (and had it done at the same place) so I do know they're fairly accurate (it said my niece's son was possibly the grandchild of one of my siblings). That said, it BG ha a couple, or more, relatives who have done the testing, it's possible that they know the family name, but there are two or more households that showed up on the list. If both households have family members in BG's age range, they may not know which one to look at. If that's the case, it does increase the chance that someone suspects him a bit and maybe has a bit of a conscience.
All MOO, again.
Okay, enough for one post. I should go to bed before it's time to get up. I hope something in this post gives someone some ideas of things to talk about.

 

[FrostedGlass]

We know what kind of shoes Abby was wearing from the pic of her on the bridge. No one, to my knowledge, has ever said what kind of shoes Libby was wearing.

 

[Harmony 2]

You are correct with your last sentence. I never make any money posting here on WS, but sometimes Harmony gives me a cup of coffee and a vanilla frosted donut in the early morning hours.........Hint,hint, hint.....mooo

Coffee has bean the grounds of many a heated and strong discussion.

Good morning everyone!

Indiana State Police‏Verified account @IndStatePolice
Do you have the information needed to solve the murder of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi Indiana? Take a moment to look over the website below. Your tip could help bring justice for http://in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

 

[weepingangel]

I recently read or heard that specific info (Libby’s shoe color/style)....I’ve been going back through the first news articles /videos ...maybe it was mentioned in an early description of the missing girls ?
Moo for now I guess until I can find a link
Black Nikes

ETA link msm source at the very end of this report

We know what kind of shoes Abby was wearing from the pic of her on the bridge. No one, to my knowledge, has ever said what kind of shoes Libby was wearing.

 

[Not a Belle]

In reading and thinking and just generally trying to figure out what I think about this case, I am torn between wanting to believe that LE is close (or getting closer) to solving this, and coming back to that seeming like unwarranted optimism. I want very much for the investigation to be at the point of needing what I think of as one magic clue (an exaggeration of course) to tie it all together, but that seems too good to be true. I fear that it will never be solved, and that is agonizing; I can’t imagine how it must be for the girls’ families.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I recently read or heard that specific info (Libby’s shoe color/style)....I’ve been going back through the first news articles /videos ...maybe it was mentioned in an early description of the missing girls ?
Moo for now I guess until I can find a link
Black Nikes

ETA link msm source at the very end of this report

Thank you for digging up that youtube.

I was wrongly remembering discussions where it was decided that Abby had on black Nikes.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

BBM
That's one of the reasons I believe they crossed back over the bridge and never went into the creek.
________

I'm not real interested in shoes, so I'm just going to throw out another jumbled mess and hope something makes sense to some people. Mainly just my thoughts on different things.

I've been wondering if the girls didn't know him, but did recognize him from around town, school or somewhere they spent time. If they did discuss the "weird guy", it may be that they'd seen him on other days and had commented on him being weird.

I've also been wondering about the phone. Is it possible that continually recording for 10-15 minutes or longer, after taking pictures and possibly shooting other short videos, could have caused the battery to die before DG tried calling? It's possible that BG was already gone by that time, although I'm not sure how likely it is. I've been curious to know what her ring tone was like since it sounded like others were trying to call/text her after he was there looking for them. I'm wondering if it would have been loud enough for him to hear if the phone was undamaged and the battery head power.

The next thing is the car. The thing that makes the most sense to me is that someone saw it park/ed there. If one of the witnesses had seen him entering or exiting a car, they'd most likely have a color, condition, age range (old, late model, new, junker, etc.), and possibly the make and maybe model. They may not have said anything sooner, although they probably did a lot of research on it, because mentioning it might make it to obvious who the witness was and s/he was afraid to have BG know. By now, I'm guessing, and hoping, that he doesn't really remember who might have seen him with/in his car.

I had my DNA testing done, and it says that I have many 2nd and 3rd cousins I've never heard of; their last names don't even sound familiar. I know that 3 of my relatives I do know have uploaded their data to the same site I did (and had it done at the same place) so I do know they're fairly accurate (it said my niece's son was possibly the grandchild of one of my siblings). That said, it BG ha a couple, or more, relatives who have done the testing, it's possible that they know the family name, but there are two or more households that showed up on the list. If both households have family members in BG's age range, they may not know which one to look at. If that's the case, it does increase the chance that someone suspects him a bit and maybe has a bit of a conscience.
All MOO, again.
Okay, enough for one post. I should go to bed before it's time to get up. I hope something in this post gives someone some ideas of things to talk about.

bbm
Re the phone ringing of Libby's phone: She knew, her dad would call, when it was time to end their Monon High Bridge visit. Perhaps she was even so proactive to turn her phone to "silently" in time?
Re the way across creek: If the girls didn't run across the creek onto RL's property escaping the perp, then maybe they indeed were abducted for some hours (by some car plus driver), maybe the phone indeed pinged around town, maybe indeed the girls were brought back (after being somewhere unknown) to RL's property. The "criminal act" began, when Libby was recording BG, but an abduction is a criminal act too (not only assault/murder).
IMO MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The owner then would have had to have given a very plausible explanation for his being there.Perhaps a well known and respected member of the community
LE must have believed it and put it in a no further action pile.
Something must have made them go back and realise they should have looked at this person more closely .
No wonder Carter was angry !Some one ,perhaps personally known by him and Unconditionally trusted, had the ability to steer the investigation in the wrong direction.
Hope now they are back on track an arrest will come very soon.

Now imagine, it wasn't only a respected member of the community, but even beyond that! It is possible, IMO.

 

[TL4S]

I keep concentrating on Supt. Carter's instructions to observe the gait and voice of BG. I believe it is someone well known and from a family respected in the community. I do not think a known drug user. I have one suspect in mind and this person has led somewhat of a public life. I am stumped as to motive. Perhaps like a timebomb waiting to explode and could have been over something as simple as girls giggling over something. Just my most recent thoughts. I usually dismiss rumors and speculation theories as they seem more like a 1600 witch hunt. Hope justice comes soon for the girls. Such a terrible loss for the families and the world.

I feel differently about Carter's comments. IMO, he did NOT want observers to focus on the gait, as he emphasized it was not the suspect's natural walk due to bridge conditions. And the "down the hill" recording has been available to the public since nearly the beginning, even before the first sketch was released, IIRC. The screen shot of BG on the bridge and a description (which overall hasn't changed), has also been public since the start. If this guy was prominent in the community, I think something (clothing, voice, time/location, evidence in the unreleased video/recordings) might have ID'd him already. JMO

 

[acutename]

BBM
That's one of the reasons I believe they crossed back over the bridge and never went into the creek.
________

I'm not real interested in shoes, so I'm just going to throw out another jumbled mess and hope something makes sense to some people. Mainly just my thoughts on different things.

I've been wondering if the girls didn't know him, but did recognize him from around town, school or somewhere they spent time. If they did discuss the "weird guy", it may be that they'd seen him on other days and had commented on him being weird.

I've also been wondering about the phone. Is it possible that continually recording for 10-15 minutes or longer, after taking pictures and possibly shooting other short videos, could have caused the battery to die before DG tried calling? It's possible that BG was already gone by that time, although I'm not sure how likely it is. I've been curious to know what her ring tone was like since it sounded like others were trying to call/text her after he was there looking for them. I'm wondering if it would have been loud enough for him to hear if the phone was undamaged and the battery head power.

The next thing is the car. The thing that makes the most sense to me is that someone saw it park/ed there. If one of the witnesses had seen him entering or exiting a car, they'd most likely have a color, condition, age range (old, late model, new, junker, etc.), and possibly the make and maybe model. They may not have said anything sooner, although they probably did a lot of research on it, because mentioning it might make it to obvious who the witness was and s/he was afraid to have BG know. By now, I'm guessing, and hoping, that he doesn't really remember who might have seen him with/in his car.

I had my DNA testing done, and it says that I have many 2nd and 3rd cousins I've never heard of; their last names don't even sound familiar. I know that 3 of my relatives I do know have uploaded their data to the same site I did (and had it done at the same place) so I do know they're fairly accurate (it said my niece's son was possibly the grandchild of one of my siblings). That said, it BG ha a couple, or more, relatives who have done the testing, it's possible that they know the family name, but there are two or more households that showed up on the list. If both households have family members in BG's age range, they may not know which one to look at. If that's the case, it does increase the chance that someone suspects him a bit and maybe has a bit of a conscience.
All MOO, again.
Okay, enough for one post. I should go to bed before it's time to get up. I hope something in this post gives someone some ideas of things to talk about.

maybe L had her phone on vibrate so there was nothing for BG to hear. I think if she had any chance, she would have answered it, IMO, so he had the girls ''threatened" or restrained.

Everyone sees things in BG's coat and pants... is there a murder weapon? No one has any ideas about him taking things out of the scene or discarding them. Some one thought maybe a bag brought with him. If you are BG and you arm yourself with stuff going in, do you have the time and attention span to carry items out? Expect LE knows more about this.

 

[Sneaker33]

I know, but it seems like a strange question at the moment of discovery. I can understand later, to confirm, but in the moment, it seems like searchers would know what they found without knowing the color of Libby's shoes.

As I type this, I wonder if they saw the color from the shoes, but in an obscured location so the rest of the body was not seen....so once they got confirmation of the color, they knew.

If the found the bodies before the "color," I can't imagine they needed to know the shoe color Libby wore that day.

ykwim?

jmo

I am very sure at least the police knew exactly what Libby was wearing but still wanted to confirm (likely protocol) before identifying a deceased person.

 

[susiQ]

I feel differently about Carter's comments. IMO, he did NOT want observers to focus on the gait, as he emphasized it was not the suspect's natural walk due to bridge conditions. And the "down the hill" recording has been available to the public since nearly the beginning, even before the first sketch was released, IIRC. The screen shot of BG on the bridge and a description (which overall hasn't changed), has also been public since the start. If this guy was prominent in the community, I think something (clothing, voice, time/location, evidence in the unreleased video/recordings) might have ID'd him already. JMO

My guess is it's not a "prominent" individual per se, but someone that comes from a respected family, and that doesn't necessarily mean privileged. JMHO

ed: punc.

 

[Brubon]

If Libby's shoe was soaking wet LE would know the girls DID cross the river. If dry, then they walked back over the bridge as Confusion surmises. LE knows infinitely more than we do, as they should. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I know, but it seems like a strange question at the moment of discovery. I can understand later, to confirm, but in the moment, it seems like searchers would know what they found without knowing the color of Libby's shoes.

As I type this, I wonder if they saw the color from the shoes, but in an obscured location so the rest of the body was not seen....so once they got confirmation of the color, they knew.

If the found the bodies before the "color," I can't imagine they needed to know the shoe color Libby wore that day.

ykwim?

jmo

Oddly enough, shoes are a major identifier in descriptions.

 

[enelram]

The owner then would have had to have given a very plausible explanation for his being there.Perhaps a well known and respected member of the community
LE must have believed it and put it in a no further action pile.
Something must have made them go back and realise they should have looked at this person more closely .
No wonder Carter was angry !Some one ,perhaps personally known by him and Unconditionally trusted, had the ability to steer the investigation in the wrong direction.
Hope now they are back on track an arrest will come very soon.

This shows the value of having investigators from outside the
small town. More objective searching and not prone to excusing
people due to the 'family' they're from or the reputation around
town. I do believe this is the prime reason for the delay in solving
this.

 

[acutename]

Oddly enough, shoes are a major identifier in descriptions.

maybe not so odd- most people could wear a variety of sized clothing - maybe it is a bit tight or baggy, but your shoes are probably more specifically sized. MO

Also you might have on several layers of clothes but you are most likely only wearing one pair of shoes.