Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[Gunslinging Granny]

The County has came into possession of that property for some future project/reason, with that money they have gathered for the restoration of that Bridge and area ?....moo

Here's one article about restoration of state paths and the Monon Bridge.
$1.2M to restore Monon High Bridge trail, scene in Delphi teens’ murder

 

[neesaki]

@Charlot123

Sorry, I butchered the quotes because I was being an idiot and a noob. However; The thing you should know is that I am indeed an atheist from MA. And, that is why I don't identify with who I think could commit such a crime.
Anyways, I am replying below. Great profile on me btw. You nailed it!



You said:


"He is probably way less mature than his biological age. Probably a teenager in an adult body, and lots of these questions are the norm for teenagers."

I say:

Oh, I am sure his emotional age was that of a teenager whether it's due to hard-wiring, sexual abuse, whatever. I think it's fair to say that many people outgrow their religious upbringing once they mature, and start to question the purpose of their very existence. I do believe this person still fears that there's still possibility of some type of judgement by a higher power. And, those are certainly things that crop up during adolescence, but left unresolved for 20 years (As I think this offender in 30 something).... Well, something has to give. And, I don't think this person had many outlets for their sexual urges. And for a long time. Using a prostitute was too dirty and beneath him. Though that was about his only chance...


You said:

Re: torture instruments (I lost this in C&P land)


I say:

I don't agree. I don't think these were "torture" instruments -- though they were certainly for sinister intentions. They were instruments designed to subdue and sexually assault someone, tamper with the crime scene, and clean themselves up enough to emerge from the woods without blood spatter. I think the offender planned this to be a sexual assault, blitz attacking an unsuspecting person -- like a jogger/hiker -- before they could see his face. But, understood the very (sick) possibility that he may have to escalate his crimes if he was identified, or things didn't go exactly as planned. I do not believe the girls were tortured. I would guess there may have been postmortem mutilation, but it was more a desire to disguise the true motives for the crime. I believe these were soft kills.


You said:


I also have the feeling that he was daydreaming about a sadistic, erotic, encounter, for many years. Maybe since high-Middle school. What people in the town he used to live in might remember would be some anonymous letters mentioning some torture elements ("a rope. A lighter. A knife" - just as an example). Or possibly, he shared these dreams with peers. Anyhow, people wrote it off as part of him being "odd", but they may remember it now.

I say:


I don't think so. I think his erotic fantasies were consensual until his 20s. Likely with women who politely smiled at him, or, female friends he could never strike up the nerve to ask out. But, years of sexual frustration stewed into an immense dislike of women. Women didn't really reject him --- but, he ones perceived as such, when in reality he never pursued them. And, I don't think he shared such details beyond expressing his disdain for women. This person will never confess on his own... unless to spare his life.... not sure if Indiana has the DP?!? I don't think he's told a soul about the killing, but obviously he is following them. He might spontaneously bring up the case -- around his few friends, over a beer, but not much beyond that. My 2 cents.

Last edited: A moment ago

Thank you for your post , you make some very interesting points that make me think even more... if that’s at all possible... about this case.
I also want to say Welcome to Abby’s and Libby’s thread, as we all seek justice for these precious innocent girls.

 

[margarita25]

(You guys are going to kill me, sorry I have to post one more revised version of the thread index; a poster was kind enough to alert me that I had left out one more thread. Thank you! Please see post below to include Thread #69, “revised 2”, also available in the media thread.

 

[margarita25]

I’ve compiled a list of all the WS discussion threads for Abby and Libby to date, 1-98 (revised 2):

Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4
Thread #5
Thread #6
Thread #7
Thread #8
Thread #9
Thread #10
Thread #11
Thread #12
Thread #13
Thread #14
Thread #15
Thread #16
Thread #17
Thread #18
Thread #19
Thread #20
Thread #21
Thread #22
Thread #23
Thread #24
Thread #25
Thread #26
Thread #27
Thread #28
Thread #29
Thread #30
Thread #31
Thread #32
Thread #33
Thread #34
Thread #35
Thread #36
Thread #37
Thread #38
Thread #39
Thread #40
Thread #41
Thread #42
Thread #43
Thread #44
Thread #45
Thread #46
Thread #47
Thread #48
Thread #49
Thread #50
Thread #51
Thread #52
Thread #53
Thread #54
Thread #55
Thread #56
Thread #57
Thread #58
Thread #59
Thread #60
Thread #61
Thread #62
Thread #63
Thread #64
Thread #65
Thread #66
Thread #67
Thread #68
Thread #69
Thread #70
Thread #71
Thread #72
Thread #73
Thread #74
Thread #75
Thread #76
Thread #77
Thread #78
Thread #79
Thread #80
Thread #81
Thread #82
Thread #83
Thread #84
Thread #85
Thread #86
Thread #87
Thread #88
Thread #89
Thread #90
Thread #91
Thread #92
Thread #93
Thread #94
Thread #95
Thread #96
Thread #97
Thread #98

 

[KentuckyMama]

This is what's been rattling in my head today. Do we know anything about the woman who gave the details for the OBG sketch five months after the fact? What made her believable and what if she was, in fact, trying to influence things? What if the lady who provided the details for OBG sketch recently changed her story?

What if the lady who helped provide info for the old sketch ends up being related to or friends with the younger sketch

 

[Boxer]

as far as the pronunciation of the i/e sound in the midwest, there is a specific accent - such as seement, instead of cement, the word pen sounds like pin, and roof sounds like ruff. Does the word "hill" not sound midwestern? I think there is a lilt in the was BG says the word - almost like he's making it 2 syllables - heyill.

MOO the two syllable "hill" seems like something linguists must study extensively.

RL has a distinct accent and his "hill" is like a "hee-ill."
BG says "hill" more like the word "heel."

I assume they have had the best working on it. Police may have more of a sample of his speaking to work from, I hope they do.

 

[MassGuy]

Its significant to someone who knows him and recognizes his voice.....

Exactly. The purpose of that audio, is the hope that someone who knows him, will identify him.

I’m sure tips are flooding in, that go against that purpose.

They want names, not a linguistic analysis that offers an opinion on where he is from.

No harm doing it on here of course, but it’s so subjective that it probably doesn’t get us anywhere.

 

[ab01]

What if the lady who helped provide info for the old sketch ends up being related to or friends with the younger sketch

I think its pretty unlikely

I think its far more likely that the witness either simply saw someone that was recently found to be unrelated to the crime

Or was simply misremembering and thus led to the sketch being inaccurate

 

[zencompass]

so what I'm wondering is, does his way of saying "guys", "down", and "hill" sound midwestern? or is there something different about it?

I tend to think the interest in the audio is the difference in vocal range for the word "guys" and that it ends with a higher intonation and the lower range for "down the hill" that ends with a low intonation. But how is that significant?

Perhaps it is significant because when he said the word "guys", he hadn't shown them the threatening item (knife, gun). He was getting their attention to look.

Then when he says "down the hill" there is a deadly serious sound to it.

These are just my thoughts on why the voice "falls".

 

[wary]

I’m curious about the way BG swallows the vowel in the word ‘the.’ He does it enough that, a few threads back, people were claiming they couldn’t even hear the word. Is that any part of any particular regional accent?

 

[ejtheintj]

I believe that him being religious or not is unimportant. He probably is, so what? It is all superficial. Morality he does not understand.

Answer: I don't think this offender is really that religious at all. I am simply talking about someone that isn't 100% atheistic. Morality is subjective and can take on multiple interpretations.


I don’t think he was abused. But I would not bet on it, either way. What I feel is that emotionally, he is stuck in the age when he started having erotic dreams, and he never progressed further. He may be “developing his dream world”, but this is all.


I don't disagree about the dreams and his progression.



in my world, subdue and sexually assault an unwilling, unsuspecting person, is torture. She would have ended with PTSD for the rest of her life.

I am certainly not disputing the psychological ramifications. I *have* PTSD myself.



Now, about organized/disorganized killers. Honestly, we don’t know how our famed “organized” killers started. About Ted Bundy and Green River Killer, there were suspicions that they both made their first kill around 13, and it was not of an organized way.

Ridgway obviously stabbed a kid at a young age. I had never heard they suspected he actually succeeded on another - but certainly wouldn't shock me. I think Bundy did indeed kill that local girl - he was their paperboy if memory serves.

 

[Charlot123]

Child killers usually have a tougher time in jail... there is some honor among thieves... here's hoping that will be the case for him...

Much as it is horrible, I am against them being tortured in jails.

They are horrible people. We have to become a better society. I think that after a while, he’ll turn into a pale shadow of a human being anyhow, no need to give him hard time. Life is enough.

 

[Boxer]

I think its pretty unlikely

I think its far more likely that the witness either simply saw someone that was found to be unrelated to the crime

Or was simply misremembering and thus led to the sketch being inaccurate

MOO someone seen on the trail that didn't not check in with police about being there that day sounds very suspicious.

 

[Boxer]

Much as it is horrible, I am against them being tortured in jails.

They are horrible people. We have to become a better society. I think that after a while, he’ll turn into a pale shadow of a human being anyhow, no need to give him hard time. Life is enough.

Using other criminals to deliver physical "justice" is avoidance of the people's responsibility, or it's some kind of made up excuse by prison staff because they can't control the place.

DP or max security - life no parole. Restitution. Punishment needs to be fairly administered to be respected.

 

[2Hope4]

the more I think about it I think he must have had a gun........he wouldn't say "guys..down the hill" while he had a knife to Abby's neck.....because he already had her under control....

a gun can obtain immediate attention and obediance....

so I think he at first brandished a gun.....told them not to scream or he would shoot them.....at that point, they were probably cooperative....

I don't think the word "guys" and the "down the hill" are the same conversation or sentence. I think 'guys' might be something like Are you waiting on those guys? Are those guys with you? It just has a different tone or feeling to me than "down the hill". It may be because we know what happened to the girls though. Maybe down the hill is the same in that something like we're going down the hill and to that tree, or I watched you down the hill until you got on the bridge. We don't have a way of knowing what the context of the few words, thus I wonder how much bias we're giving the words. Does that make sense?

 

[moonlessnight]

yup.

In more recent times, I think there's a possibility he changed his appearance some between when he passed the girls on the trail, and when he put the wheels in motion to go after them.

JMO

 

[ab01]

MOO someone seen on the trail that didn't not check in with police about being there that day sounds very suspicious.

No doubt about that

Depending how accurate sketch1 was it may have not been until recently when GA Fbi looked at the case that they realized that someone who had been already cleared was most likely depicted in sketch 1

Or it could be that the witness was simply mistaken about the Characteristics of the person they saw

both seem plausible to me

JMO

ETA or it could be that BG looked different to the witness bc he was disguised with an eye patch, oversized shoes, voice box, fake nose, toupee, baby goat in his coat or poodle, tripod in pant leg, gas mask....i'm probably missing some

 

[Charlot123]

I very am sorry that you have PTSD...

About atheism - we can’t discuss religion in greater details here, but we are not going to dispute this issue with you, either

However, I believe that inner morality is something inborn, and that human reactions do not depend on religiosity/lack thereof. It this guy repented and confessed, and found inner strength for the confession in his belief, we could discuss his faith and how it helped him. Where we stand today, I don’t see any faith.

 

[Evinrude]

Living in a town with two very prominent colleges, I was able to bring a few ms photos of BG to have them (pics) enlarged a bit with high tech equip (just a little better than my X) with faculty that I know.
Not that I have 20/20 vision, but what was clear to me was the silhouette of a pistol in the right front pocket of BG, thick brownish brown hair with a lot of body to it and an undershirt that has a large letter “P” on the front. Prior to this, I thought the “p” was possibly laces from a hoodie, large nylon zip ties perhaps......but never a imagined a “P” on the umdershirt



Purely my speculation and that of my fellow peers.

 

[moonlessnight]

there is a tiny little extra sound in "hill", like there's a y in the second half - hiyel - even though he says is fast.


ETA - and in the GH enhancements, when he has the voice slowed down 3 times, you can hear the word hill ends on a slightly higher note than it started on. The word "the" is almost just an L - like a slurred touching of the tongue to the front teeth.

MOO the two syllable "hill" seems like something linguists must study extensively.

RL has a distinct accent and his "hill" is like a "hee-ill."
BG says "hill" more like the word "heel."

I assume they have had the best working on it. Police may have more of a sample of his speaking to work from, I hope they do.