Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

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I appreciated you posting it. Picturing the layout of bridge, creek, cemetery, shed, etc. is helpful. Maps and locations are in many cases imo. This case is also over two years old and it saves those who did or do know from going back to refresh their memory. There are always also newcomers.

Even though I am pretty familiar with this case, I did not follow it on here in the beginning and it was the first I saw it. So thank you :)

Bringing back another version of the area map. For me, it was more helpful than the Google image was, to show the location of the social services building in the upper right corner.
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...-11e5-97fd-93362d1a84af/5679c07137e25.pdf.pdf
 

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An athlete? A runner? Who would be more noticeable, a man on a bike or a jogger?

Or look like an old guy with a strange gait and shed clothes and look like a young jogger? There seems to be a double meaning to those words as there often is in PCs... Motorcycle, scooter, ATV--trailered, quickly switch from one mode of transport to another... Get around the area fast... Of course that would imply some intelligence and planning.

I do not truly think any of these things other than perhaps some possible planning and foreknowledge but they are food for thought...
 
On the other hand, with crimes like this and tip line open, the LE have to listen through tons of related/totally unrelated information. Maybe, the LEs were so overloaded that they missed something, as humans do?
 
Wow, that is nuts! Did you ever contact the family with your info?

Good question. His only family was his elderly, disabled mother, whom he lived with. And I just didn't consider contacting her a prudent option. I really really really thought LE would follow-up with me. I called several times to different numbers. In fact, I think I will call them again today. Thank you.
 
I only say that it is a handgun in his pocket because there is one manufacturer that makes a firearm with a very distinctive outline that I see in BG's pocket. Had it been a simple bulge I wouldn't be as confident. Perhaps someone with imaging software and a knowledge of popular Austrian handgun frames could superimpose the image of BG and various handgun images to see if any match.

Got it. It's just that for me, there is not enough clarity to determine a distinct outline of anything. Which for me is evident by the fact that people have seen tripods and walkers and catheters and puppies and all number of things in his pants or coat or whatever. There's never been a consensus.

The image was from a distance and was zoomed in and when zoomed in there aren't enough pixels for me to determine such detail. And as others have said, the authorities have used the best imaging software they can to provide us as clear an image as possible. No other software can make up for the lack of pixels.

IMO he could have a pack of smokes, an angle, a sandwhich, a gun, keys, a potato or half a number of other things in his pocket. I can't make out enough to detail to figure that out one way or another. Certainly not a type or certain brand of gun.

But if others can, hey, more power to you!!
 
Or look like an old guy with a strange gait and shed clothes and look like a young jogger? There seems to be a double meaning to those words as there often is in PCs... Motorcycle, scooter, ATV--trailered, quickly switch from one mode of transport to another... Get around the area fast... Of course that would imply some intelligence and planning.

I do not truly think any of these things other than perhaps some possible planning and foreknowledge but they are food for thought...

I think, they meant something different, this guy was seen at one place in am, somewhere else in 15 min, was seen in many places around the town, and then disappeared, and then popped up, suddenly, and later perhaps joined the search team, or so?
 
They almost certainly know what the vehicle looks like.

If they describe the make, model, and color, people will come out of the woodwork to report seeing it.

It’s possible that they want to know if anyone spotted a person associated with that vehicle.

If a witness can accurately describe the vehicle, then they may have important information

I hope that you are right and that it is not just a vague memory of a car and if it was light or dark.
I flip flop back and forth on whether they know or not.
 
:) :) :)

This case totally grew on me. (And I only joined Webseluths to find one person who disappeared).

It would be nice if people joked more. Today I saw the girls’ photos...such nice faces. The round cheeks of Libby reminded me of a kid I once knew. And their wide smiles...

And we all understand what has happened, don’t we? The ugliness, the darkness.

Jokes will be good...

I agree. Some levity is needed at times in such tragic cases. My favorites are when reading a remark makes me chuckle out loud. It makes my day and breaks up the tenseness of some of the details in many of these crimes.

I joined too over one case.

I have always known of this one though with Abby and Libby--a small midwestern town, a day off school, most of us are taught there are safety in numbers/buddy system, did not work out that way in this case. I pray for justice for these two children. He had it right in the recent PC, some coward killed two little girls. Big man in his own head like any bully or control freak? Not to me.

CCC. If he turns out to be from a different county, that can always be adjusted... :)
 
Mitochondrial DNA, MDNA can be extracted from a hair that has been naturally shed. MDNA, which cannot be used for individualization, can narrow the source of the hair down to a certain family group (MDNA is passed from mother to all offspring).

LE may have sifted through the debris gathered and found a naturally shed hair and has been pursuing the ancestry data bases. LE can determine general age range from a naturally shed hair. A naturally shed hair cannot reveal definite identification that would stand up in court.

LE also may have some partial nuclear DNA which revealed telomere length (the end caps of DNA) which would reveal relative age. This might have steered LE to the new BG, but has not provided enough certainty for an arrest.
 
Good question. His only family was his elderly, disabled mother, whom he lived with. And I just didn't consider contacting her a prudent option. I really really really thought LE would follow-up with me. I called several times to different numbers. In fact, I think I will call them again today. Thank you.

In cases like this, I would call FBI.
 
In cases like this, I would call FBI.

I couldn't agree with you more, Charlot123. SeattleStew might want to do that as an option.
Its up to an individual's preference of course!

You just never know.

Honestly, You don't want to be playing with your grandchildren in 50 years, and find out a name which you sent in, decades prior, ACTUALLY has now been found out to be the perp. ( by more advanced DNA, deathbed confession, etc.)

Always call in your tip to your local FBI field office, or submit it online. At least then, you can be sure someone objective and not so local, got the information.

Maybe someone who was manning the tip line was related to the perp? (Covering for a loved one? Protecting the family name? etc.) You never know. Obviously, you don't want to inundate LE with stupid stuff.

But if your tip makes sense, (and SeattleStew: Yours does!) , then you might want to contact the FBI field office in your nearest city.

JMO.

eta: word
 
In the fall of 2016, as was my usual habit (and still is), my dogs woke me up about 5am for me to let them out in the backyard to go potty. I let them out the backdoor, make a pot of coffee, grab a cup when ready, and then go sit on my back deck and watch the dogs and drink my coffee while listening to the news on the radio.

My back deck and yard look across the back alley to a government agency building (I live in the city) where I can see the back door, which is also the employee entrance. As per usual I noticed an employee arrive to work (his usual time, per my observations in the past) walk past the door, and towards the opposite end of the building, toward the parking area.

Three minutes later, I hear a gun shot.

Unfortunately, hearing gun shots is a common occurrence here. Not necessarily at 5:50am though. So, I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear sirens just a few minutes later. I went back inside after about five minutes, and started my day.

Later that day, I read that a person (a well known neighbor who often was seen out walking at all hours, nice person, no criminal history) had been shot and killed just two blocks from my house. After reading the news report, the timing made it clear that I had heard that fatal shot. The victim was discovered deceased on the sidewalk by a gentleman who had seen a man fleeing the scene with a particular description that could resemble the employee I had seen just a few minutes before I heard the gun shot. That person had been walking toward where the victim was found, and could possibly (elapsed walking time) have witnessed, known something, or even have been the killer IMO.

I called in what I had seen to the tip line. Never heard anything back from anyone. The murder is still unsolved. I often wonder if my tip ever made it to an investigator. I have called twice more over than last almost three years, and have never heard back from anyone to follow up.

My point is, maybe the guy I saw had nothing to do with the murder, but that whole morning is indelible in my mind, even though what I saw happened prior to the murder. I think because that morning later became associated with such a horrific crime, the details of that morning have stuck with me all this time. I think LE is hoping someone saw something that day that seemed ordinary, but because such a heinous crime was committed later that day, even the ordinary is indelible for them, for example a car parked at the DCS lot, and that person can provide valuable seemingly mundane details, that will lead to the killer.

Long post, sorry, but wanted to share a perspective of how one's memory can hang on to seemingly small details. I purposely did not share those here in this post because I am still hoping that what I observed may help to bring answers to this person's family and friends.

I wish someone had at least talked to you about what you had observed. Maybe they know somehing that made what you observed not related, to them. Or maybe you should call that tip in one more time. Or better, send an email.
 
I couldn't agree with you more, Charlot123. SeattleStew might want to do that as an option.
Its up to an individual's preference of course!

You just never know.

Honestly, You don't want to be playing with your grandchildren in 50 years, and find out a name which you sent in, decades prior, ACTUALLY has now been found out to be the perp. ( by more advanced DNA, deathbed confession, etc.)

Always call in your tip to your local FBI field office, or submit it online. At least then, you can be sure someone objective and not so local, got the information.

Maybe someone who was manning the tip line was related to the perp? (Covering for a loved one? Protecting the family name? etc.) You never know. Obviously, you don't want to inundate LE with stupid stuff.

But if your tip makes sense, (and SeattleStew: Yours does!) , then you might want to contact the FBI field office in your nearest city.

JMO.

eta: word

Really great points!
 
ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

BBM.

I've been thinking about this statement for the best part of two days, and I cannot for the life of me parse it. Maybe I need to go back to 8th grade myself, and work on my reading comprehension.

Does it mean LE received pertinent information, but they don't know from whom?

Or that they know the identity of the person who gave it to them, but in the light of some new development they want to revisit that person's entire story/alibi – and for some reason LE cannot locate any record of the original statement to verify what they remember being told?

I know LE has interviewed a lot of witnesses and received even more tips, but it sounds as though some information they thought they had established has now come into doubt ... and/or cannot be properly sourced or located. Did a set of files go missing? Or was some witness misidentified early on, and now they are desperately seeking to establish that person's authentic identity so as to corroborate the 'information' he provided in light of subsequent discoveries? Or maybe worst of all, did the person literally "give them the information they were looking for" – not the truth, but what the interviewer expected of him/her, assumed to be truthful and even obvious given the person's absolute trustworthiness?
Any way you slice it, it's bad.

If a witness somehow concealed his true identity early on during an interview, or if a solid citizen blatantly lied to LE, and LE only just discovered this betrayal of trust which succeeded in steering them away from the killer's trail for 2 years, that would explain a lot of the tone during the presser.

*MOO. Also, edited for redundancy/clarity.

BBM. This explains almost all of the remarks, tone and anger. Imo. It is at the top of theories with me. Maybe also they were steered away from the trail but have been onto the right one for longer than we or he knows... I hope anyhow.

I think there was much said that only the killer understands. Even the vehicle and the lot could be something as simple as they know. The hours they give may show they know. We do not know that, but he may. "You want to know what we know" and something like "one day you will". They provide something they know to show him they know. Maybe they are looking for no vehicle or driver (although someone knowing would be a bonus as a witness), they have to play their word games for the public but the presser is really for him. The new sketch, they know. You never thought we would change investigation direction (paraphrasing). They know. They are letting him know they know. At least know much of it, maybe not all.

Then again, as I always do with too open of a mind I guess, this could all be tactic and they have nothing.

However, I too try to be optimistic. I think they went balls to the wall with some risk and I think they know. Whether they are building the case or have enough, I do not know. I do think they know who he is though. And he knows now that they know... Or worries that they do...

I hope :)
 
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Regarding the car. . .
What if no one actually witnessed a car there? What if they only found evidence of a car being parked there?
Something along the lines of motor oil, tire tracks, leaky radiator, skid marks, dumped out ashtray or other detritus, etc. I can't recall if I've seen this theory before, but it just sort of popped into my head. MOO

ETA: That would explain the lack of any specific info about the type/color/age/etc. of a "specific" car.
 
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Good question. His only family was his elderly, disabled mother, whom he lived with. And I just didn't consider contacting her a prudent option. I really really really thought LE would follow-up with me. I called several times to different numbers. In fact, I think I will call them again today. Thank you.

It's really a detailed tip. The kind LE wants when they ask for tips!

But I would email it instead of calling I think. You can practically cut and paste what you wrote here.
 
I truly can't see how anyone can detect with any level of certainty what's in BG's pockets.

But otherwise you make some interesting points. I like your points about organization versus disorganization and possible COD.

One thing that throws me about the whole thing is how little time he had. LE stated that the girls were murdered within minutes of his image being captured on Libby's phone.

Which indicates to me the murders were captured on the recording.

If so, I think maybe either he was interrupted in some manner or his main goal was killing them versus sexual assault or causing prolonged torment.

I'm trying to think what the Zodiac killer in California did. I think with some he killed them without warning and quickly. Makes me think of the recent guy out here in So Cal. who was trying to kill - it appears- campers in a local park, and ended up killing Tristan Beaudette who was in his tent with his two toddler daughters.
Yes, the time factor is perplexing to me, LE saying that the murders occurred shortly after the video capture? What is shortly?? Has anyone calculated how long it would take to walk from that point on the bridge to the spot their bodies were found? Surely, he did not carry them there. Forgive me if this has already been hashed over.
 
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