IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #16

[Cryptonite]

Another theory, we have a large power lines going up stretching several miles from other side of Kokomo to Reynolds several people and construction Going on,where these people from.they are not locals,some that erect the towers were off that day because it was windy jmo

 

[melsmemories]

Another theory, we have a large power lines going up stretching several miles from other side of Kokomo to Reynolds several people and construction Going on,where these people from.they are not locals,some that erect the towers were off that day because it was windy jmo

This would make sense. A worker off for the day may have decided to do a little hiking

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[tomvansac]

Thanks for the info on how your company required em. I work at a plant that builds stuff and although we don't wear them, we are pretty aware of keeping the floors clean and clear. Did your plant require them just for some categories of workers?

Tell ya what, if these are fairly thick bootiebutlers you might be on to something.

The first company I worked for here in Indiana required employees in the department I worked in to wear them. Judging by the images, you might be on to something. They wrapped around the bottom 1/3 of my trail boots, and had little plastic thingies on them eerily similar in placement as what I thought were shiny eyelets in the pics. The band around a bootiebutler would be roughly where the light band is around the foot wear in the two images.

MOO, if this is true, is the girls may have been spooked by that feature, as well. Why would someone wear bootiebutlers while out hiking/walking? In this case, maybe to conceal wear patterns/shoe prints from the soles, say on the bridge. This is a tactic which has been used in quite a few murders in the past. A heavy enough material in a bootiebutler would partially or even totally conceal the pattern of the sole on dry or even wet soil.

Good catch!

 

[k0nfuzed]

Right..but who knows how "buried" his username, etc..is. Pay as you go Smart phone with all false info..bogus username..you get where I'm going? JMO


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You have to sign up with either a phone number or email, so anyone on the viewer list who they cant verify they should definitely be looking for information on depending on how they signed up. If it is email they should at least be able to get some records from the provider on IP and location

 

[k0nfuzed]

Right..but who knows how "buried" his username, etc..is. Pay as you go Smart phone with all false info..bogus username..you get where I'm going? JMO


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Even if you use a fake user name on Snapchat the police can track you down. They'll have your IP address & other identifiers attached. Companies like snapchat don't let you use TOR or other masking services and I doubt the guy was only using his device on public wifi networks. It's very difficult to remain truly anonymous on the internet once law enforcement gets involved, if the crime is serious enough.

this is correct. snapchat is only available on android or iphone and they can easily track you down based on the device you installed the application on. anyone who viewed her posts that day should be on a short list to cross off any possible suspect

 

[Cryptonite]

This would make sense. A worker off for the day may have decided to do a little hiking

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If u drive from another state u won't drive back home ,they probably being put up in motel some where for the week,a day off hmmm

 

[emilie42]

POLL:

1-Drifter
2-SK
3-1 sp for a meet up; girls thought he was a teen when they talked to him online
4- 2 sp's for a meet up; the girls thought they were teens when they talk to them online
5-sex trafficking attempt
6-chance encounter

My feeling is #2 or #3 or some combo thereof. The suspicion that BG seems to have stuff on him (concealed items) that don't make sense for being there innocently suggests that the attack was planned (although maybe not for these girls specifically) and purposeful. The theories about the girls waiting around for some kind of meet-up seem to fit with the timing and the girls' behavior, so I can't rule that out. What actually made me move that down my list was watching the grandfather's video interview and the personality profile of Libby that emerges from that (a somewhat nerdy girl who really loves science) and it's harder for me to fit that in with a girl who would set up meetings with strangers for who-knows-what reasons. If it was a meet-up I'd actually find it more plausible that they got caught up in something else by accident (like delivering something for someone; maybe they thought it was mysterious and fun and didn't realize it was actually very potentially dangerous). I sort of played with that idea when I was thinking about the mention of looking for a duffel or backpack, as though LE thought something like that could be missing and that it would provide evidence. If there is more than 1 perp I think it likely that it was a something-gone-wrong situation (they witnessed something, or got involved in something accidentally), whereas if it was a premeditated assault I think it's just the one guy. I can't figure out how it could be sex trafficking attempt that ends with them so quickly and violently killed.

Another thing, regarding the possibility of another suspect being a woman, and what about the "couple" spotted earlier, wouldn't the witness (the woman who spoke with LE, who saw a "guy" and the couple) have at least identified that BG was part of that couple? The way her statement sounded it was like she already knew they weren't possibilities. Although now that I think of it, her statement was published so early on in this that it may have even been before we even had the photo of BG. Apologies if all of this has been covered before.

 

[tomvansac]

I knew some guys that travelled around the country hooking up large microwave dish antennae to tall towers. They did it using helicopters to carry the dish antannae up to its attachment point where guys hanging off the top of the towers with safety harnesses would connect them. Gutsy work but paid really well. Come to think of it, some of those communications guys dressed down and some of the tower companies issued "thank you" jackets in that same blue color. One crew was killed doing this work in Texas when I knew them.

Another theory, we have a large power lines going up stretching several miles from other side of Kokomo to Reynolds several people and construction Going on,where these people from.they are not locals,some that erect the towers were off that day because it was windy jmo

 

[labam99]

this is correct. snapchat is only available on android or iphone and they can easily track you down based on the device you installed the application on. anyone who viewed her posts that day should be on a short list to cross off any possible suspect

The problem is did they have enough time to do this? The bodies were found at 12:45 PM on the 14th... the last snapchat was on 2:07 PM on the 13th.... they would have had little over an hour to get that shortlist before it would automatically be permanently deleted

 

[Theforeigner]

LE, in both Abigail/Libby and Lyric /Lizzie murder cases, know the cause of death and the killers MO in the two cases,
and thereby probably have a very good idea about the motive of the murders.
This info is absolute vital info when it comes to consider if the two cases are linked.
We don't know this info, but due to that LE does they by know probably know if the cases could be linked or not.

I also still believe that LE have the killers DNA in both cases, and a DNA match would of course be the ultimate evidence
of a possible connection between the two cases. And if no DNA match, evidence that the cases probably are not connected.

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, who is in change with the Delphi case, clarified his on-air comments from a Thursday interview during a Fox59 report, noting he didn't intend to confirm or deny that investigators collected DNA evidence in the double homicide investigation of Abby Williams and Liberty German.

So the fact, IMHO, is that Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, in order to protect the investigation, just does not want anyone outside LE to know wether they have the killers DNA or not, especially not the killer.

Here is more on the DNA issue:
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...riff-clarifies-reports-dna-evidence/98351378/

 

[k0nfuzed]

The problem is did they have enough time to do this? The bodies were found at 12:45 PM on the 14th... the last snapchat was on 2:07 PM on the 13th.... they would have had little over an hour to get that shortlist before it would automatically be permanently deleted

Yeah they should have the logs of who viewed anything she posted for up to a month.

https://storage.googleapis.com/snap-inc/privacy/lawenforcement.pdf

b. Logs of Previous Snaps, Stories, and Chats
Snapchat retains logs for the last 31 days of Snaps sent and received, for 24 hours of posted Stories, and for any unopened Chats or those saved by a sender or recipient. The logs contain meta-data about the Snaps, Stories, and Chats, but not the content.
Process required for logs of previous Snaps, Stories, and Chats: This information is available pursuant to a court order under 18 U.S.C. § 2703(d) or a federal or state search warrant.

 

[labam99]

Yeah they should have the logs of who viewed anything she posted for up to a month.

https://storage.googleapis.com/snap-inc/privacy/lawenforcement.pdf

b. Logs of Previous Snaps, Stories, and Chats
Snapchat retains logs for the last 31 days of Snaps sent and received, for 24 hours of posted Stories, and for any unopened Chats or those saved by a sender or recipient. The logs contain meta-data about the Snaps, Stories, and Chats, but not the content.
Process required for logs of previous Snaps, Stories, and Chats: This information is available pursuant to a court order under 18 U.S.C. § 2703(d) or a federal or state search warrant.

They have 31 days even for the snapchat stories? I believe the pics posted were for stories, which only last 24 hours? Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[k0nfuzed]

They have 31 days even for the snapchat stories? I believe the pics posted were for stories, which only last 24 hours? Correct me if I'm wrong

if someone posts a snap story, you as a user only have 24h to view it

law enforcement has up to 31 days to request the metadata (user account info, time, device info) of who viewed the snap story

so if law enforcement requested the metadata from snapchat within 31d of it being posted to a snap story they will be able to retrieve that metadata and know each user account, time, and device that it was viewed from and narrow down who were her actual friends and if anyone is unidentifiable or matches the suspect

 

[rsd1200]

JUST a theory..MOO..
The Snapchat pic has stuck in my head as more than a casual photo op. In the beginning, someone posted that they thought the girls looked like they were "waiting." Put that on the back burner..
I think the perp is familiar w the area on purpose. Not necessarily local to Delphi, but close enough to drive there pretty quick. He could have scouted the area out on foot, as well as via photos just like we have. I don't think he'd want to go there more than a time or two..wouldn't want to be noticed. To go to the spot where the girls were found without knowing about it ahead of time, well that could have landed him in someone's backyard.
I agree with the ideas about him parking in the cemetery, since it's been reported that a vehicle could be somewhat hidden.
Now, going back to Snapchat..Libby took pics and posted them from 2 views of the bridge..what was in front of them & what was behind. If this was a catfish case in any possible way, the perp could have gotten word that they'd be there at 1..and given Libby instructions to post pics that no one was around when they got to the bridge. So they do that. I'd assume he's already close by in a vehicle. He gets the snapchat and parks at the cemetery and does the walk in to the bridge, probably passing by the place he plans to take them. Maybe even leaving a "kill kit" on site. He arrives and perhaps upon seeing him enter the tracks from the woods, Libby knows it's him..but it's not who she's expecting. As he approaches, she starts video. Her frame of mind may have been "We are out of here, but I'm reporting THIS guy," before he had even spoken a word to them..and thought they were just going to get outta Dodge.
Now in the other hand, the Snapchat pic could be as ominous as the video. If Libby WAS able to post that snap from the bridge, then ideally she could send a text or dial 911. Did they maybe see the perp lurking and wanted to document to tell someone later? But weren't scared enough to call or text anyone. And when he came close by she started up the video for the same purpose? My guess is he assumed or knew one of them would have a phone and regardless of if they'd gotten a pic, he'd toss it in the river..end of evidence. Or so he thought.
I feel like the cemetery would be a good escape route, especially if he knew the girls had a pick up time in a short while. I believe the crime was over or nearly over when family began looking and calling out for them. I believe it was sexual and I believe it was very violent. I do not subscribe to the theories of "not intending it to happen" and I don't believe it was a simple strangulation. IMO, he used the girls as leverage against on another and a taser wouldn't be out of the question to incapacitate them both while zip tying them to keep them from running. If Libby's phone was still w her, it surely would have been going off if the sound was on. Perhaps that prompted a toss in the river. Anyway, IMO, he made haste in getting out to the cemetery and out of the area. From the time the girls were supposed to be picked up until midnight that night, I believe the presence of people would have been enough that SOMEONE would remember seeing him leaving. And hey, maybe I'm all wrong and they DID see someone walk off..hence the quest for tips about hitchhikers, etc. sorry for the ramble. Just my thoughts.


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I'm pretty much on board w/you. I think they saw him, got nervous, took the snapchat photos and possibly even started away but he came back around and had a firearm. They didn't know what to do at that point and went with him. The snapchat photo and audio was maybe a hope that a friend would see it, or the person who dropped them off, and realize they were in trouble. I think they thought they were going to meet a boy(s) near their age. He catfished them.

 

[labam99]

if someone posts a snap story, you as a user only have 24h to view it

law enforcement has up to 31 days to request the metadata (user account info, time, device info) of who viewed the snap story

so if law enforcement requested the metadata from snapchat within 31d of it being posted to a snap story they will be able to retrieve that metadata and know each user account, time, and device that it was viewed from and narrow down who were her actual friends and if anyone is unidentifiable or matches the suspect

Alright thank you, that's good to know

 

[Elainera]

LE, in both Abigail/Libby and Lyric /Lizzie murder cases, know the cause of death and the killers MO in the two cases,
and thereby probably have a very good idea about the motive of the murders.
This info is absolute vital info when it comes to consider if the two cases are linked.
We don't know this info, but due to that LE does they by know probably know if the cases could be linked or not.

I also still believe that LE have the killers DNA in both cases, and a DNA match would of course be the ultimate evidence
of a possible connection between the two cases. And if no DNA match, evidence that the cases probably are not connected.

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, who is in change with the Delphi case, clarified his on-air comments from a Thursday interview during a Fox59 report, noting he didn't intend to confirm or deny that investigators collected DNA evidence in the double homicide investigation of Abby Williams and Liberty German.

So the fact, IMHO, is that Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, in order to protect the investigation, just does not want anyone outside LE to know wether they have the killers DNA or not, especially not the killer.

Here is more on the DNA issue:
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...riff-clarifies-reports-dna-evidence/98351378/

Leave him wondering, not knowing if he's 'safe' or if he should be nervous. Good strategy!

 

[darlinikkisiks]

Oopsie poopsie, was just trying to lurk [emoji51]

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[Falling Down]

I grew up in a an Indiana town of about 1500 people and can tell you a bridge like this one and the woods around it would be a hot spot hangout. If I were the police the first thing I'd do is track down people who went to the near by high school who are around 30-50 years old and ask them of their experiences at the bridge and in the woods. Who did they hang out with there, who did the encounter there, were there any trouble making people from surrounding towns who would do drugs, abuse animals or bully other people there. Someone felt comfortable enough in that wooded area to traverse the steep hills and knew for sure they would have privacy to do this awful crime. What gave them that confidence? It had to be experience. If the guy is a loner now, he probably wasn't a total loner when he was younger. He probably bullied (or got bullied), hunted, fished, etc.. in that very area. Tracking down people and their old memories at this stage wouldn't be easy but I think that would be one of the best ways to find bridge guy.

...which fits in with my theory that BG knows that park, and the area around it. I'd bet dollars to donuts he's fished the creek many times, but perhaps not in recent years.

I see posts here about the guy not being very sophisticated, a dummy, etc. How did this guy, assuming he worked alone, pull it off? He would have to be at least 110 IQ, in my book, possibly much higher.

All this talk of he was in the park after dark, he lived in the woods for weeks, etc., make me laugh. This is not a big park, at least not where I come from. This is not a park to get lost in. It's fairly small, has maybe a few hidden spots like where the girls were found (on private property, which BG may have already known about) , but it's surrounded by private/residential properties and a cemetery. I've stumbled across abandoned shelters in parks in parks which are surrounded by densely-populated areas. Parks which are 3-4 times the size of this one.

Two of those urban parks are where a serial killer, and a couple, left their vicrims, dumped them. Perhaps even in broad daylight. One is a former railroad property (!), and the other is a large, urban park, with multiple streams and creeks running through it.

This guy is a pro. MOO is he watched the bridge from afar, maybe or at least two hours, and from roughly where the girls ended up. The incident happened, which I won't elaborate upon for the nth time, for brevity's sake. within a matter of minutes once the perp set out on his mission, setting the wheels in motion after setting his trap. From intial contact to death may have been under 25 minutes, maybe under 20 or even 15, judging by the distances.

This is a game to these sickos. Additionally, who's to say he didn't already know the local LE response times, and maybe was banking on the family members not even calling LE for an extended period of time. Which tells me time was on his side, and he knew it.

Cased the park for weeks or even months. Knew Delphi schools were off that day. Has watched the same YouTube videos we have watched, videos made last year and in previous years. I shudder just thinking about it. He must know that park, and the immediate area around it

 

[LucyRocket]

I'm pretty much on board w/you. I think they saw him, got nervous, took the snapchat photos and possibly even started away but he came back around and had a firearm. They didn't know what to do at that point and went with him. The snapchat photo and audio was maybe a hope that a friend would see it, or the person who dropped them off, and realize they were in trouble. I think they thought they were going to meet a boy(s) near their age. He catfished them.

Libby did not take a picture 'of him'. Libby took a picture which happened to capture him. Look at the picture she took of Abby. Taken from a fair distance, and yet the image is so clear. 'HE' was not the subject of the image the police have released. He just happened to be somewhere in the background. This wasn't deliberate on Libby's part AT THIS STAGE

 

[tomvansac]

Seems like he could have grown up in the area and was maybe back for a visit or on business and decided to lurk in the park awaiting innocents.
I hope he rots in h*ll forever in pain. Come to think of it, he's probably living his own version of it right now and I sure hope it will only get hotter for him pretty soon. May those young girls rest in peace !

...which fits in with my theory that BG knows that park, and the area around it. I'd bet dollars to donuts he's fished the creek many times, but perhaps not in recent years.

I see posts here about the guy not being very sophisticated, a dummy, etc. How did this guy, assuming he worked alone, pull it off? He would have to be at least 110 IQ, in my book, possibly much higher.

All this talk of he was in the park after dark, he lived in the woods for weeks, etc., make me laugh. This is not a big park, at least not where I come from. This is not a park to get lost in. It's fairly small, has maybe a few hidden spots like where the girls were found (on private property, which BG may have already known about) , but it's surrounded by private/residential properties and a cemetery. I've stumbled across abandoned shelters in parks in parks which are surrounded by densely-populated areas. Parks which are 3-4 times the size of this one.

Two of those urban parks are where a serial killer, and a couple, left their vicrims, dumped them. Perhaps even in broad daylight. One is a former railroad property (!), and the other is a large, urban park, with multiple streams and creeks running through it.

This guy is a pro. MOO is he watched the bridge from afar, maybe or at least two hours, and from roughly where the girls ended up. The incident happened, which I won't elaborate upon for the nth time, for brevity's sake. within a matter of minutes once the perp set out on his mission, setting the wheels in motion after setting his trap. From intial contact to death may have been under 25 minutes, maybe under 20 or even 15, judging by the distances.

This is a game to these sickos. Additionally, who's to say he didn't already know the local LE response times, and maybe was banking on the family members not even calling LE for an extended period of time. Which tells me time was on his side, and he knew it.

Cased the park for weeks or even months. Knew Delphi schools were off that day. Has watched the same YouTube videos we have watched, videos made last year and in previous years. I shudder just thinking about it. He must know that park, and the immediate area around it