IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #16

[tomvansac]

very good point ladymoffat!

 

[margarita25]

(Bomb threat, my foot...)

 

[IndependentFeed]

Entertaining the hitchhiker theory, you can see how the bridge might draw curiosity from someone not familiar with the area. It's almost a mile from the pedestrian bridge to the monon high bridge but it is almost a straight shot. It is possible to accidentally find the location bridge guy ended up. It exposes him to a lot of risk though if there are other people walking that nearly mile long path as well as being reported on by the person who gave him a ride.

The reason I say it's easier to find by accident on foot than via car is the entrance to the the parking / drop off area on W 300 N road is small, easy to miss and since the re-routing of SR 25 a few years ago it requires a few turns instead of one simple turn. If you moved out of town for a few years during the construction of this new SR 25 it might even have you confused. GPS devices with map data from 2013 and before would be totally useless as the changes to the roads are significant.

Parking at the drop off area is extremely limited, only a few cars could fit in there at a time and if he parked there it would be risky. So few people park there that you'd likely remember any car in the area if you shared parking. The 2 ground level photos shown above are the parking area, you can see the now famous Monon High Bridge sign in one of them. The gate is usually closed and of course cars are not allowed on that path. If you're driving down W 300 N and blink, you could miss the entrance and be driving off into country back roads for miles without realizing you screwed up.

You can access the bridge from the cemetery by going off the beaten path but that requires quite a bit of familiarity with the area and likely ill intentions as you have to go on private property and go through an opening in a fence to get there.

In my opinion, if someone came here to do something like this. They would drive and they would park at the cemetery. Pull in behind one of those trees and you'd have direct access to the woods, be largely hidden from people driving by, hidden from people parking at the usual locations & only exposed if someone happened to be visiting the cemetery that day. The other, safer option would be parking at someone's residence nearby but I don't want to speculate on individuals. If you're a local from a town like Camden, Flora, Kokomo, Frankfort, Logansport, etc.. you could enter/exit to & from the east, get on the backroads and avoid SR 25 if you wanted to avoid potential cameras & large amounts of traffic.

 

[ladymoffat]

very good point ladymoffat!

If you mean about a sketch, it was actually marduk who made the point 😊

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[loading]

I would think that they'd have already made an arrest if it was a Snap friend or Catfish situation? Besides I think the fact that she felt the need to film debunks this theory. Filming has become such an impulse behavior for young people because of Snapchat. You see something unexpected, you document it. I think the situation would have played out differently if it was expected.

 

[kbsweet911]

That's a nice theory but the problem I see with it is, if he knew they had snapchat, and were posting pictures with it, he would know they had a phone on them, and if he knew that I just believe he would have either taken it with him or destroyed it all together, he would not want that potential evidence out there. JMO

He may have thought he DID destroy the phone. We don't know for sure how LE retrieved the video/still from Libby's phone. I think if he was tech savvy at all, then taking the phone would be a bad idea. I once retrieved one of my kids' phones from a mud puddle after about 24 hours (true story) and we were able to dry it out in rice. It didn't work perfectly, but everything on the Sim or SD (whatever) was A-1. And that was with a wee bit of help from Verizon..not the FBI.


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[labam99]

I would think that they'd have already made an arrest if it was a Snap friend or Catfish situation? Besides I think the fact that she felt the need to film debunks this theory. Filming has become such an impulse behavior for young people because of Snapchat. You see something unexpected, you document it. I think the situation would have played out differently if it was expected.

I completely agree with this and it's why I discount the catfish theories about these murders, the online trail would be hard to cover if it were a catish situation(especially in this day in age). He'd be in custody already had that be the case

 

[tomvansac]

Yes, i agree. should go back through lists to at least two years before 2012 which would be 2010. ( i was reading too fast first time. Sorry is late out here in California too.)

First time poster, but following (when I'm able) since Day One.
I don't know if it's been covered yet, but have the list of all employees from the packing plant(s) in or around Evansdale, Iowa (I'd say going back at least two years prior to L & L's murders - the records should still be available) and the list of all employees from the packing plant(s) in and around Delphi been compared to see if there is anyone who has worked at both plants at one time or another?

 

[DeDee]

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRyan
True and they said that the searchers found the girls bodies by following footprints so they must have some prints as evidence.

whoa ... I totally missed this piece of info earlier

a set of footprints ... not three sets of footprints? did he carry them? drag them?

The set of prints could be from when BG left the scene of the crime [CS]. Never heard about drag marks and LEO may not tell us that part anyway. If BG began dragging 50' from the edge of the creek bed, well, then, that's a long way to drag someone. Wouldn't 30' or 20' have been far enough? Then, BG left the precious girls in the pristine woods with no sign of a struggle at that CS. How does that happen?

 

[tomvansac]

Well, we can second and third that then!

If you mean about a sketch, it was actually marduk who made the point 

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[melsmemories]

I completely agree with this and it's why I discount the catfish theories about these murders, the online trail would be hard to cover if it were a catish situation(especially in this day in age). He'd be in custody already had that be the case

I agree. If it was an online set up someone would of been arrested for it by now. No one is really truly anonymous on the internet

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[Falling Down]

Shoe covers look like ladies shower caps. you put them over your shoes but they come off all the time. so you hold them on with elastic bands put on over the top of your foot and under your foot. are called bootiebutlers

Tell ya what, if these are fairly thick bootiebutlers you might be on to something.

The first company I worked for here in Indiana required employees in the department I worked in to wear them. Judging by the images, you might be on to something. They wrapped around the bottom 1/3 of my trail boots, and had little plastic thingies on them eerily similar in placement as what I thought were shiny eyelets in the pics. The band around a bootiebutler would be roughly where the light band is around the foot wear in the two images.

MOO, if this is true, is the girls may have been spooked by that feature, as well. Why would someone wear bootiebutlers while out hiking/walking? In this case, maybe to conceal wear patterns/shoe prints from the soles, say on the bridge. This is a tactic which has been used in quite a few murders in the past. A heavy enough material in a bootiebutler would partially or even totally conceal the pattern of the sole on dry or even wet soil.

Good catch!

 

[kbsweet911]

The other hole in this is that on Snapchat it logs when every user who views your posts. So they should have checked into anyone who viewed her post and confirm who it is (Usually between 50-150 views for non celebrity people)

Right..but who knows how "buried" his username, etc..is. Pay as you go Smart phone with all false info..bogus username..you get where I'm going? JMO


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[kat913]

First time poster, but following (when I'm able) since Day One.
I don't know if it's been covered yet, but have the list of all employees from the packing plant(s) in or around Evansdale, Iowa (I'd say going back at least two years prior to L & L's murders - the records should still be available) and the list of all employees from the packing plant(s) in and around Delphi been compared to see if there is anyone who has worked at both plants at one time or another?

Welcome Liberty Bell!

I have been thinking the common denominator may be a truck driver who drives between these two points (and perhaps others as well). It could be a regional route (Dedicated route) that he does every week (weekends off...which is why he was in Indiana on Monday and Iowa on Wednesday). The distance between these two points is about 6.5 hours. Truck drivers are allowed to drive for 10 hrs/day so he has about 3.5 hrs left in a day to travel. Wonder if there are any other similar murders of young girls? That Murder Accountability would be handy now....http://www.murderdata.org/

May look into it tomorrow :thinking:

 

[tomvansac]

imho, he forced LG and AW to walk there under duress, threat of assault by showing a gun or knife. Once there he could have quickly tazed the girls into unconsciousness so that they fell from their walking stances.

The set of prints could be from when BG left the scene of the crime [CS]. Never heard about drag marks and LEO may not tell us that part anyway. If BG began dragging 50' from the edge of the creek bed, well, then, that's a long way to drag someone. Wouldn't 30' or 20' have been far enough? Then, BG left the precious girls in the pristine woods with no sign of a struggle at that CS. How does that happen?

 

[IndependentFeed]

I grew up in a an Indiana town of about 1500 people and can tell you a bridge like this one and the woods around it would be a hot spot hangout. If I were the police the first thing I'd do is track down people who went to the near by high school who are around 30-50 years old and ask them of their experiences at the bridge and in the woods. Who did they hang out with there, who did the encounter there, were there any trouble making people from surrounding towns who would do drugs, abuse animals or bully other people there. Someone felt comfortable enough in that wooded area to traverse the steep hills and knew for sure they would have privacy to do this awful crime. What gave them that confidence? It had to be experience. If the guy is a loner now, he probably wasn't a total loner when he was younger. He probably bullied (or got bullied), hunted, fished, etc.. in that very area. Tracking down people and their old memories at this stage wouldn't be easy but I think that would be one of the best ways to find bridge guy.

 

[IndependentFeed]

Right..but who knows how "buried" his username, etc..is. Pay as you go Smart phone with all false info..bogus username..you get where I'm going? JMO


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Even if you use a fake user name on Snapchat the police can track you down. They'll have your IP address & other identifiers attached. Companies like snapchat don't let you use TOR or other masking services and I doubt the guy was only using his device on public wifi networks. It's very difficult to remain truly anonymous on the internet once law enforcement gets involved, if the crime is serious enough.

 

[melsmemories]

Right..but who knows how "buried" his username, etc..is. Pay as you go Smart phone with all false info..bogus username..you get where I'm going? JMO


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Not sure about the laws in america but every time I've signed up for a Sim card I've had to provide identification. I've even had to get my brother to sign up for me because I don't have photo I.D.

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[melsmemories]

Even if you use a fake user name on Snapchat the police can track you down. They'll have your IP address & other identifiers attached. Companies like snapchat don't let you use TOR or other masking services and I doubt the guy was only using his device on public wifi networks. It's very difficult to remain truly anonymous on the internet once law enforcement gets involved, if the crime is serious enough.

Literally was going to write about how tor wouldn't work on Snapchat but lost my train of thought so thank you

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[tomvansac]

I don't think he was wearing the shoe covers, but that he still had on the elastic rubber band that he uses to keep the covers on with. You take the shower cap shoe cover off of the bottom of your foot and just move the separate elastic band from the top and bottom of your foot upward to your ankles. That way you don't lose them and they are still on your boots to pull down over your bootiebutlers when you start your next shift.

Tell ya what, if these are fairly thick bootiebutlers you might be on to something.

The first company I worked for here in Indiana required employees in the department I worked in to wear them. Judging by the images, you might be on to something. They wrapped around the bottom 1/3 of my trail boots, and had little plastic thingies on them eerily similar in placement as what I thought were shiny eyelets in the pics. The band around a bootiebutler would be roughly where the light band is around the foot wear in the two images.

MOO, if this is true, is the girls may have been spooked by that feature, as well. Why would someone wear bootiebutlers while out hiking/walking? In this case, maybe to conceal wear patterns/shoe prints from the soles, say on the bridge. This is a tactic which has been used in quite a few murders in the past. A heavy enough material in a bootiebutler would partially or even totally conceal the pattern of the sole on dry or even wet soil.

Good catch!