IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #18

[anthro_phys]

To me it appears he's carrying a lot inside his coat.
Big ole gun for one.

Is this guy selling drugs?
Did they see something?
I'm not all convinced this was a sexual assault.

I tend to agree with you. I have wondered if they were inadvertent witnesses. The notion that this man was stalking the girls across this trestle, rather than stalking them on the trail, seems a stretch.

It's clear that this man is a threat and an anomaly, regardless of his motive. In decades of hiking, I can't recall a single instance of a middle-aged man appearing alone on a trail. When I've encountered men this age on a trail, they've typically been (in decreasing order of frequency) walking a dog, hiking with one or more children (or the entire family), hiking with a partner (female or male) as part of a couple, or hiking with a male buddy. Men alone without a dog tend to be young and runners. YMMV, but middle-aged men typically do not hike by themselves.

The condition of the trestle itself is a flag on the sexual motive. As soon as I watched the video documenting the railway history and saw the state of the ties and the spacing between them, I realized my reaction to seeing this man on the trestle would be panic, because he is completely out of place, and there are no rails to prevent a fall--or a push--over the side. My primary fear (as a female who would never be comfortable encountering a middle-aged man alone on a trail) would be that this man might be angry or unpredictable and push me off the edge, either accidentally (through carelessness or gruffness), or deliberately. This man does not belong here, but I would consider other motives before sexual assault first. If he truly was stalking them, he chose an incredibly visible manner in which to do that, which increased his own vulnerability and lessened his chances of success.

 

[Avejajed]

Re: Obits

I work for a newspaper and I can confirm that obits are sent to us either directly from the funeral home or the family. Typically, the funeral home writes the obituary, if it's a basic one, and the family just approves it. Sometimes, the family writes it, but mostly I've seen they give the information directly to the funeral home and the funeral home then writes the obits. I've always known the obit to be information directly from the family, not from the coroner's office. What they may have officially may be different, i.e. day of death.

That said, I've never known someone to pick a day of death for an obituary other than the day the actually died. I'm not sure why someone would.

 

[heaterann]

JMO I felt this was a SK from the start and there are other girls in the surrounding area's that I felt resembled Abby. SK usually have a "type" like short blondes that look like their mother (just example) anyways also looking at the pics of the girls Abby looks controllable where Libby just looks like she could kick your *advertiser censored*s her grandfather even said she would fight. There was that other girl walking the trail that day alone, she would have been a much easier target but he took these two because IMO Abby fit his "type" I have always hoped it was not sexual, not all SK are sexually motivated, but is it likely.. yes. I would be very shocked to find out he sexually assaulted both girls. JMO based on what we have gotten so far thats just how I put the puzzle together.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

OMG thank you!

You are welcome. The constant refreshing is so annoying.

 

[ninij9]

I hate hearing people theorizing that Abby was the main target as opposed to Libby.

There is not one shred of evidence as of yet to support a theory that one child was the interest over the other. I get steaming mad because there is this undercurrent that Abby was slim, petite and sweet and our ideal of a 13 year old, and Libby was heavy so therefore invisible to this creep?????? Why couldn't Libby have been his target, and Abby was in the way?

I think they both were his target. He killed and hurt BOTH of them right?

If SM grooming was part of this (NOT IN MY OPINION) It would have been LIBERTY he was catfishing as she had a phone, right? It was her Snapchat acct.

I would never ever tell anyone how to post, but really I get upset when I hear this.

Adding I'm not directing this at anyone.
Don't mean to anyway...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Oregonmama]

traffic cams........

http://pws.trafficwise.org/pws/

 

[Hopingtohelp]

When this guy is caught, he may be very different from what you imagine. I always thought people who did unimaginably evil things would look and act like monsters until a friend of my boyfriend was arrested as a serial rapist years ago. I could not believe it. He was a nice guy, married to a beautiful young woman, had a good job, lots of friends. There was absolutely nothing about him that would have set off alarms. Nothing. So people can definitely live seemingly normal lives yet have dark secrets hidden within.

 

[Etilema]

I hate hearing people theorizing that Abby was the main target as opposed to Libby.

There is not one shred of evidence as of yet to support a theory that one child was the interest over the other. I get steaming mad because there is this undercurrent that Abby was slim, petite and sweet and our ideal of a 13 year old, and Libby was heavy so therefore invisible to this creep?????? Why couldn't Libby have been his target, and Abby was in the way?

I think they both were his target. He killed and hurt BOTH of them right?

If SM grooming was part of this (NOT IN MY OPINION) It would have been LIBERTY he was catfishing as she had a phone, right? It was her Snapchat acct.

I would never ever tell anyone how to post, but really I get upset when I hear this.

Adding I'm not directing this at anyone.
Don't mean to anyway...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I share your negative feelings about the implications (perhaps not intended) that Abby would have been more attractive to a predator.


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[dotr]

When this guy is caught, he may be very different from what you imagine. I always thought people who did unimaginably evil things would look and act like monsters until a friend of my boyfriend was arrested as a serial rapist years ago. I could not believe it. He was a nice guy, married to a beautiful young woman, had a good job, lots of friends. There was absolutely nothing about him that would have set off alarms. Nothing. So people can definitely live seemingly normal lives yet have dark secrets hidden within.

Welcome to Ws Hopingtohelp!
The perp could look like and appear to be " every man", i totally agree.

 

[Avejajed]

Also: Newspapers, and funeral homes, make mistakes. It's common when you're typing and retyping obituaries. Newspapers, for example, have to type the obits (or should, anyway) to put them into AP style. That means changing dates around, retyping family names, etc. It'd be easy enough for any obit posted to have accidentally typed the wrong date.

 

[Dockins]

The County Medical Examiner will inform LE and the media as to the official time and date of death as long as that info is able to be determined. From that, obits are generated and published. The ME will also provide the official death certificate in cases like this. This will have all of the relevant information on it.

I have not read the obits in this case but if they give different dates of death, I would think it valid.

This is not how it is always done. I did my dad's. We actually had the wrong birth year (I know terrible). I have also submitted some out of state. The newspaper printed it as I wrote it. Since it was a cremation, I sent it a few weeks after the fact. I was never even asked to provide a funeral home. IMO, the funeral director fills in the info that is provided by family, especially in smaller towns. Just look at some of the obits making the rounds on SM, they aren't exactly done in a professional manner. An obit is not an official document.

 

[latisha.darnell]

I share your negative feelings about the implications (perhaps not intended) that Abby would have been more attractive to a predator.


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Abby also looked younger than Libby imo and maybe that's why


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[CustodesIpsos]

Re: Obits

I work for a newspaper and I can confirm that obits are sent to us either directly from the funeral home or the family. Typically, the funeral home writes the obituary, if it's a basic one, and the family just approves it. Sometimes, the family writes it, but mostly I've seen they give the information directly to the funeral home and the funeral home then writes the obits. I've always known the obit to be information directly from the family, not from the coroner's office. What they may have officially may be different, i.e. day of death.

That said, I've never known someone to pick a day of death for an obituary other than the day the actually died. I'm not sure why someone would.

For reference, Abigail Williams: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?n=abigail-j-williams-abby&pid=184160552

Liberty German: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jconline/obituary.aspx?n=liberty-german-libby&pid=184160551

Abby's date is indeed listed as February 14 and Libby's is February 13. The simplest explanation, imo, is that it's simply a typo.

Edit: fixed link (I hope)

 

[liltexans]

Re: Obits

I work for a newspaper and I can confirm that obits are sent to us either directly from the funeral home or the family. Typically, the funeral home writes the obituary, if it's a basic one, and the family just approves it. Sometimes, the family writes it, but mostly I've seen they give the information directly to the funeral home and the funeral home then writes the obits. I've always known the obit to be information directly from the family, not from the coroner's office. What they may have officially may be different, i.e. day of death.

That said, I've never known someone to pick a day of death for an obituary other than the day the actually died. I'm not sure why someone would.

I think with missing people it can get a little muddled. I've followed many cases where the missing person wasn't found for years and they were finally found deceased, but the date of death listed in their obituary was the date they were found, even if just a few bones were found and it was obvious they had been dead for a long time. Luckily, most obituaries are not written about people who had been missing recently.

 

[pandorasbox]

Oh really? I hadn't heard this. I hope they got something from it!! Are there any tolls/Ezpass exits around there?

There are no toll roads for a few hours. Closest would probably be outside of Chicago but still in Indiana?

 

[heaterann]

I hate hearing people theorizing that Abby was the main target as opposed to Libby.

There is not one shred of evidence as of yet to support a theory that one child was the interest over the other. I get steaming mad because there is this undercurrent that Abby was slim, petite and sweet and our ideal of a 13 year old, and Libby was heavy so therefore invisible to this creep?????? Why couldn't Libby have been his target, and Abby was in the way?

I think they both were his target. He killed and hurt BOTH of them right?

If SM grooming was part of this (NOT IN MY OPINION) It would have been LIBERTY he was catfishing as she had a phone, right? It was her Snapchat acct.

I would never ever tell anyone how to post, but really I get upset when I hear this.

Adding I'm not directing this at anyone.
Don't mean to anyway...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I get why your upset, I would be too if someone said that the reason Abby was the target was based on how she looked in comparison to Libby, as a former jock myself there are plenty of guys who love a girl who can kick a soccer ball my reason for thinking Abby was the target was based on her "look" as a whole and the other missing girls in the surrounding area, making my theory a SK not a random one time attack. IMO Libby just looks like a really bad person to target, she is strong and she would not give up, not saying Abby would but physically she would be easier to control. Hope that helps you to understand at least where my opinion a little more.... they were both very beautiful young ladies.

 

[Avejajed]

I share your negative feelings about the implications (perhaps not intended) that Abby would have been more attractive to a predator.


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I understand those that feel this is kind of distasteful, but you can't ignore the fact that if Abby was smaller or appeared weaker (it may not have been her "looks" or "attractiveness" at all), she may have stood out as the easier target. I'm not saying that how it went, at all, or that Abby was prettier or thinner or whatever else, and I don't think anyone else is either.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I hate hearing people theorizing that Abby was the main target as opposed to Libby.

There is not one shred of evidence as of yet to support a theory that one child was the interest over the other. I get steaming mad because there is this undercurrent that Abby was slim, petite and sweet and our ideal of a 13 year old, and Libby was heavy so therefore invisible to this creep?????? Why couldn't Libby have been his target, and Abby was in the way?

I think they both were his target. He killed and hurt BOTH of them right?

If SM grooming was part of this (NOT IN MY OPINION) It would have been LIBERTY he was catfishing as she had a phone, right? It was her Snapchat acct.

I would never ever tell anyone how to post, but really I get upset when I hear this.

Adding I'm not directing this at anyone.
Don't mean to anyway...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

That's why I asked the question of why some think one was targeted (or the target) over the other.

So many posts, it's hard to keep up and there are so many thoughts that people are stating without explaining WHY they think that way. I understand IMO MOO JMO etc, (and I have my own thoughts) but without stating WHY you think that, I tend to scroll and roll.

 

[DavidC]

I am still curious if LE picked something up from the traffic cams along the highway. There is a cam by the overpass that is part of the trail....

Good point.

I think with the federal government involved the resources available to solve this case are beyond our imagination.

 

[Gunther Toody]

This is not how it is always done. I did my dad's. We actually had the wrong birth year (I know terrible). I have also submitted some out of state. The newspaper printed it as I wrote it. Since it was a cremation, I sent it a few weeks after the fact. I was never even asked to provide a funeral home. IMO, the funeral director fills in the info that is provided by family, especially in smaller towns. Just look at some of the obits making the rounds on SM, they aren't exactly done in a professional manner. An obit is not an official document.

Was your father in a criminal case with an autopsy?
Who else would create the death certificate in these cases?

I know the family will write the obit but in criminal cases it is the ME who makes the determinations.as to cause and time of death.