IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #20

[ninij9]

Huum....Didn't I read early on that muck boots were found nearby the creek? If so,he took off in a hurry and forgot them. IMHO I think he knew the landowner was away,and if so,must either know him,or someone the landowner told that he would be away. Was anyone coming to feed any animals on that property?
Going through old reports, on April 26,2014 the landowner called police to report a burgler at 9:49PM, in his barn...but the person fled before police arrived. I wonder if someone sneaks there on occasion,when they think the owner isn't home?

Hi Catwitch,

I'm a teeny bit catching up. Not sure if anyone answered your "muck" boot questions yet.

A news agency posted a picture of a pair of muck Boots in a clear plastic bag (note: evidence is collected in paper bags NOT plastic so...)they "claimed" were collected as evidence during a possibly related search at the meat packing plant.

That's it. It's one of those tidbits that grew wings and flew.😉

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[Nellsbells]

Just my guess, but I think, at this point, LE would rather go with an actual photo they know is him, instead of a guess at a sketch that they may get wrong.

JMO

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I can understand that but the problem is that in his composite he looks like literally at least a quarter of his fellow Hoosiers in his age bracket. That is if he a Hoosier. There are somemagnificent artists (thinking of the sculptor in the John List case) who could take away some of the generic mask that I believe he"s wearing and using to his advantage. Sorry for the typos, Is in need of another exorcism

 

[Krwiley60]

:welcome4::greetings:

Maybe the hand is curled up under the sleeve.


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[katydid23]

MOO. I ride the fence on this one. As a Network Admin I know my way around a computer rather well. And I know there are people in the FBI waaaaay better than I. However, there are programs and such that can mask a person's identity quite well. It takes time to trace IP addresses and follow bread crumbs across the Web.

Things just seem more rational at a set up or online communication than a chance encounter.

JMO

I agree that it would take time to identify who he was, iF there was a planned meet up.

But I do think they would see evidence of those 'meet up' plans in the girls cells or computer even if they could not identify the person.

 

[Hatfield]

I've looked at enlarge, dodge, burn, and colour saturation. It looks like he might have his left hand in front of his face, and a back pack or something similar hanging from his left shoulder. At first I thought he was wearing a hat with ear flaps, but now it looks like a hoodie with a baseball cap overtop.

Did you try darkening the background? I found that helped clarify the image for me.

What other photoshop tools did you try?

I keep thinking that maybe he does have a backpack on afterall. I know it could be a hoody bunched up too but when i look at it and try to think it is a backpack it seems to me he could have had a thinner type backpack that went up higher on his shoulder area.

The picture on the right of the side by side photos is the one that makes it look more like a backpack to me. Was thinking along the lines that he was all supplied up and had all kinds of things with him. Guns Knives heavy clothing and maybe a backpack too. Maybe he was on foot with that theory and if so it could explain why he had them go way off down the creek to the East.

Ive been trying to decide where his escape route was and the cemetary is a good theory where he may have been parked if he had a vehicle. If he was on foot then he may have had no problem walking further to the east down the creek and using the creek as his highway.

Lots of people assume that nobody can own land on either side of a creek and think as long as they stay near the banks of the creek they think nobody can tell them to leave. Just been trying to think of where he left afterwards if on foot.

The perp photos under number 4 in first link and second link is the case map showing the creek.


http://people.com/crime/abigail-williams-liberty-german-slain-indiana-teens-5-things/

[url]https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1jzzVpiZSWwov83EXVjy_9i8mTHs&ll=40.59057499977035%2C-86.63340393041074&z=16
[/URL]

 

[ab01]

I still wonder if there is anything we can discern from the fact where their bodies were found? That is a lot of private property to cover in order to get from the bridge to where the victims were found. It almost makes me wonder if maybe BG had some kind of inside knowledge of the private property. I mean 3/4 of a mile hike from the public trail is quite a distance through the woods. I just can't force my mind to think that some random person traveling through would take these victims all the way down there. This guy definetly knew this are very well, I just keep finding myself drawn to these maps trying to figure what i am missing. I think that is why its so hard for me to understand, bc in my mind it just screams of a local perp. I just feel like this guy after the murders walked away and continued his hike back towards his house just like he was strolling on that bridge. But I also know all the reasons why this doesn't make sense, Locals would have identified him by now, no known association to victims, nobody saw anything etc. With that said, I always seem to think that the simplest answer tends to be the most accurate.

Who would be most likely to be at these trails during the week? Local person IMO

Who would know the area? Local person IMO

Who would know the private properties and homeowners habbits/ when they could get in and out? Local person IMO

Who would know best route to get in and out/where to park/where to go to walk away/paths through private property? Local person IMO

The only logical assumption I can make is if it was a Cyber crime and this person knew that these victims liked to go to these trails and he set up trial runs in order to scope this location. But in my opinion he would still be 1 either local, or semi local, as maybe his job put him in this area quite often for work.

sorry for the jumbled novel, just trying to put my 20 threads worth of reading into cognitive thoughts. all in MOO

 

[LaRojaPyramid]

I think they have a very good idea as to who he is. Hence the lack of details that have been released. It's a case of adding from the tips they receive......tick tick tick tick m**********r.


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[GGE]

That's been my gut feeling from the beginning. One of the girls met a cute guy online and they setup a meeting at the park. She brought a friend so she wouldn't feel too shy. They kept is a secret but made a plan to visit the part, got the sister to drop them off - less chance of interrogating like they would get from a parent.

I would really like to know if the girls routinely went for walks at that location, or if this was an out of the blue great idea, as that would answer the question of whether this was a random encounter or a luring.

Yes they routinely went to walk at that location. Not "routinely" as in, on a schedule/routine.. they didn't go every Monday at that time or anything. But they'd both gone there plenty of times before. One article had a picture of Abby holding a fish on a fishing pole standing next to a chair on the side of the creek with the bridge in the background, for example ... both girls went there with and without their families and other friends quite a bit. There are mentions to that fact in the articles I posted a few pages back when people were asking for proof that Liberty has an older sister. If you find that post of mine, check the daily mail links, I think they are - mention of the girls taking their grandmother to the bridge a summer or two ago is in there, I think, or perhaps it was an aunt. I cannot grab links right now myself to support that statement though, sorry, maybe someone else will have one or two handy.

 

[LadyL]

probably the same as a Canadian accent sounds to you? :leaf2::canada:

Indiana accent??? lol....I thought we did not have an accent. What does an Indiana accent sound like to you?

 

[LadyL]

I don't have the same confidence as you ... I hope you're right though.

I think they have a very good idea as to who he is. Hence the lack of details that have been released. It's a case of adding from the tips they receive......tick tick tick tick m**********r.


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[Krwiley60]

This animation has helped me notice a few things:
1. The brightness / color of the two images is quite different, look at color of wood on the bridge walkway between the two.
2. The "logo" on the brown fanny pack like object appears to be the same thing causing a more pronounced shadow or dent in the next image which looks more like a hoodie.
3. The goggle like thing under his chin originally appeared to have rotated 180 degrees between images. It hasn't, additional portions of this object near his mouth are just more / less visible between the two photos.

Is his right hand moving somewhat?


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[Novelist]

I think they have a very good idea as to who he is. Hence the lack of details that have been released. It's a case of adding from the tips they receive......tick tick tick tick m**********r.


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I agree with this. IMO they know who this is but have to build the case. This isn't CSI or any other TV show. They have to build a rock solid case and that takes more than an hour minus commercials.

And YES!!...tick tick tick

 

[abeaman02]

Just wanted to chime in late as usual, but saw mention of pepper spray being used for protection and just wanted to share this item my hubby just got me...amazingly easy to use and easy to hold. Pepper spray always freaks me out because every time I have been around it when it's used I end up choking and coughing if not even close to it. Personal protection is so important. Sadly no where is safe.

https://www.amazon.com/Streetwise-Million-Perfect-Discrete-Rechargeable/dp/B01CXB2CHW


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Since I am a Realtor thought it would be perfect so just went to order it and they won't ship to Michigan :shame:

 

[FIgnacio]

I still wonder if there is anything we can discern from the fact where their bodies were found? That is a lot of private property to cover in order to get from the bridge to where the victims were found. It almost makes me wonder if maybe BG had some kind of inside knowledge of the private property. I mean 3/4 of a mile hike from the public trail is quite a distance through the woods. I just can't force my mind to think that some random person traveling through would take these victims all the way down there. This guy definetly knew this are very well, I just keep finding myself drawn to these maps trying to figure what i am missing. I think that is why its so hard for me to understand, bc in my mind it just screams of a local perp. I just feel like this guy after the murders walked away and continued his hike back towards his house just like he was strolling on that bridge. But I also know all the reasons why this doesn't make sense, Locals would have identified him by now, no known association to victims, nobody saw anything etc. With that said, I always seem to think that the simplest answer tends to be the most accurate.

Who would be most likely to be at these trails during the week? Local person IMO

Who would know the area? Local person IMO

Who would know the private properties and homeowners habbits/ when they could get in and out? Local person IMO

Who would know best route to get in and out/where to park/where to go to walk away/paths through private property? Local person IMO

The only logical assumption I can make is if it was a Cyber crime and this person knew that these victims liked to go to these trails and he set up trial runs in order to scope this location. But in my opinion he would still be 1 either local, or semi local, as maybe his job put him in this area quite often for work.

sorry for the jumbled novel, just trying to put my 20 threads worth of reading into cognitive thoughts. all in MOO

He throw the bodies to the river and then he let float them is easy.

 

[HockeyMom330]

That's been my gut feeling from the beginning. One of the girls met a cute guy online and they setup a meeting at the park. She brought a friend so she wouldn't feel too shy. They kept is a secret but made a plan to visit the part, got the sister to drop them off - less chance of interrogating like they would get from a parent.

I would really like to know if the girls routinely went for walks at that location, or if this was an out of the blue great idea, as that would answer the question of whether this was a random encounter or a luring.

Sorry I do not have a link but I read earlier on that it was common for the girls to hike, and that they had been to Monon High Bridge before.

I know they were BFFs, but would there be another friend in their social circle or at school, or a sibling, that they would tell if they had met a guy online? If either Abby or Libby were smitten with somebody from SM I would assume they might have told someone else. Seems like a 'secret' a teen girl would have trouble keeping.

 

[ab01]

He throw the bodies to the river and then he let float them is easy.

float upstream? :thinking:

 

[layer]

This view, w/o leaves and undergrowth, gives a better idea of the lay of the land and where the girls were said to have been found (50' from the water's edge). The land that they were found on was part of a 40 acre plot that the man owned. I've got wooded areas on my property that I've not stepped on in probably over a year.

That is the wrong location...

 

[Yesiamapirate]

This is usually how a killer starts out they told me...hurting and killing animals as a child. Then they go on to bigger things.


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And bed wetting. The MacDonald Trilogy.

 

[otto]

I agree that it would take time to identify who he was, iF there was a planned meet up.

But I do think they would see evidence of those 'meet up' plans in the girls cells or computer even if they could not identify the person.

I'm not convinced that police would find a trace even if there was a luring without a cyber crime unit. I think there would be an initial contact and a short time before suggesting that they go 'black' so as to keep their parents from snooping. I suspect that is followed by a grooming period, and an invitation to meet somewhere that they would not be recognized by friends in such a small town.

I still see similarities between this case and the one on July 13 a few years ago when the Iowa cousins vanished under unusual circumstances and were found some distance away at a secluded park and near the water. We did not hear whether they were wearing clothes (seem to recall footwear was used for identification).

Does he murder near water to wash away DNA, but not place the bodies in the water because he wants them to remain in the secluded place rather than travel downstream where they may be found?

 

[Spellbound]

AFTM: maybe just post the link next time.....filled my whole browser lol
On the Web: http://www.csbsju.edu/uspp/CrimPsych/CPSG-5.htm







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[/QUOTE]


Just an FYI, but rules here are to use no more than 10% of any article posted. Always include the link.

ETA: that link does not work for me (using ipad) This is what I get; The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed,
or is temporarily unavailable.