IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #25

[Jillrp]

Sleuths, share the photo and audio everyday PLEASE. I truly believe this is the answer. Some news stations are reporting the story without the audio ! HOW? This is crucial to OUR SOCIETY. We have a heartless killer living among us. Let's do what Liberty's grandfather asked. ONE minute each day or a few times each day. SHARE IT!! Can someone please get it on Pinterest ?

 

[Grimlynn]

Is t this the sex offender we were allowed to and have sleuthed here? Last initial W? Or is this a different one.

A different one.

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[FrostedGlass]

Searching for other crime in the area where the girls were found.
5th Sheriff call down. Less than 3 years before.

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/news/2014-05-21/Local_News/Police_Calls.html

That same property had an issue a month before, too. March 31

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/news/2014-04-09/Local_News/Police_Calls.html

 

[Mainemom76]

Katarina Bitterman missing in Ohio. There is a thread for her. All JMO, but Parma, OH is 295 mi from Delphi. Not unrealistically far, imo. According to thread, dogs lost her sent at an intersection by her home, where there just so happens to be an RSO residing. Also, FBI has joined and they are searching a wooded park and creek area directly behind her house. I know the RSO's in Indiana must have been seriously checked out...but what about neighboring states??? All total speculation, imo.

 

[jillybean51]

That same property had an issue a month before, too. March 31

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/news/2014-04-09/Local_News/Police_Calls.html

Good eye!! Delphi seems to have a ton of crime for such a small town.


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[Deleted member 278]

Does anyone know please where Liberty's Mom is? No significance to case at all. ( I just feel so sick about this crime I keep thinking how horribly broken the moms in particular must feel)

That has no bearing in the case and can't be discussed IMO.

 

[seemsfishy]

Let's put ourselves in the mind of the killer, and try to determine what he's thinking,from
the visual and audio clues we have of him. Let's suppose he's of average intelligence.
Firstly his major fear would be that of getting caught, and from all the TV crime shows,
that we've all seen, that would be leaving behind DNA evidence. With this in mind, let
us speculate on several things.
Motive- it could be sexual ( and likely is) and it could be for his love of "young girls" a
pedophile type guy, or just a hatred of females, from prior rejection.
Where to do this crime- well- "not where you live" especially in a small town where
everyone knows you, and can recognize you if something were to go wrong.
I BELIEVE- He was "not" a local resident- "far to risky" but could live in state, or county,
as he appears to know this particular area. This could be from working there. Apparently
there are only about 2,000 people in Delphi, and 20,000 in Carroll county.
How should he carry out killings- if he used a knife, he might cut himself, and leave
blood at the scene, or guns and bullets can be traced. What is least "risky"
I BELIEVE- He planned to hang them with rope, or drown them, and I believe this
was all pre-planned, as he probably met them on social media, posing as a friendly
male or female, that's a lot younger, and "made friends,and knew their plans.
How should he dress ??? he would dress to disguise himself the best he could,
by wearing a baggy jacket that he could hide all of his "killing equipment" in, like
rope, knife, bags ( to put his after murder clothes in)
I BELIEVE- This is why he's staring down in the photos of him, to keep a low
profile, and prevent from being recognizable. Also look at his blue jacket- it looks
"puffy" and stuffed with a bunch of things, he likely was going to use in the killings.
After his mission was complete, he'd bag his murder clothes,shoes- and bury them.
His demenour - very deliberate walk, as he clearly was targeting someone, and had
a target he was approaching. His body language-"aloof and cold" Also his "voice"
"down the hill" was very "calm" not trembling or excited. Just business, to get job done.
I BELIEVE- He met them on social media, or a friend did ??? and he knew they were
going to be on the bridge, so he came well prepared and had time to plan.
How to come and go- best would be by car or truck, park nearby like in the cemetary,
so he can come and go "fast" with as few people noticing him as possible.
I BELIEVE- He had some kind of vehicle, and it was his 'get to" location, and get away
from location as quick as possible. He could get out of state "fast" with a vehicle.
How to avoid screams etc- likely he used duct tape to tape their mouths shut.
I BELIEVE IN SUMMARY- This guy has killed before, as he was very calm about this,as
evidenced by his calm voice. He met them off social media of some type, and be-friended
them, and knew of their plans to be at the bridge. He probably went their beforehand to case
out the environment-saw water etc, and made a plan in his mind. When he got them down
the hill, be taped their mouths shut, then drowned them, or hung them.( with rope he brought)
If he hung them- there should be DNA on the rope-"skin cells etc" <modsnip> I hope he left semen, or blood of some kind on
one of the girls, so a DNA profile can be created.
NOTE- Let us hope a DNA sample was left- but he may not be in the "data bank" and he
could be from another country ( Canada) and would not show up on a search for a DNA match.
Let's hope he was not this smart, and well organized and left a sample- DNA.
I BELIEVE- there are so many guys that look like him, that it's unlikely he will get caught by
his picture alone. What will bring this guy down is a "hot tip" from someone that knows of
his character, or a DNA match left at the crime scene. If he is not "registered" in the DNA bank
we may be waiting quite some time. I also think he got great satisfaction from this, and if he
somehow avoids police- "he will be caught"- they all do eventually get caught, and he will keep
re-offending until he makes a mistake, or someone turns him in. This is "my take on this guy."

 

[carpeverum]

BBM & Snipped for space.

Is there a link for that statement by LE? I missed it in the madness this case has become. TIA.

Big oversight by me for not adding that link at the time I made that post. Thanks for the reminder, Jax49--will post it here and update my original post.

'An Amber Alert for two missing Carroll County girls wouldn't have helped in this case...' Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said Wednesday morning.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good

(Above link contains info on why I believe Libby and Abby may have been murdered prior to 5:30 p.m. on 2/13/17).

 

[Eileen730]

Is there a homeless camp back in those woods?

 

[GGE]

Big oversight by me for not adding that link at the time I made that post. Thanks for the reminder, Jax49--will post it here and update my original post.

'An Amber Alert for two missing Carroll County girls wouldn't have helped in this case...' Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said Wednesday morning.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good

(Above link contains info on why I believe Libby and Abby may have been murdered prior to 5:30 p.m. on 2/13/17).

IMO the reason an Amber Alert wouldn't have helped in this case is pretty obvious if you're familiar with the criteria for issuing one - you have to have a good suspect decription and/or a license plate number and this case had none of those things.

Very basic IMO.

I will find a link for amber alert criteria and edit it in.

ETA: ok, here.. .keeping in mind that each state comes up with it's own guidelines based on the official ones here, which include the following, which is what I was referring to above -

"There is enough descriptive information about the victim and the abduction for law enforcement to issue an AMBER Alert to assist in the recovery of the child."

https://www.amberalert.gov/faqs.htm

 

[VTX88]

That same property had an issue a month before, too. March 31

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/news/2014-04-09/Local_News/Police_Calls.html

Interesting. Perhaps this trespasser is the murderer. Clearly he feels comfortable enough with that property that he's burglarizing it. I was also considering the thought that maybe he had just burglarized a property in town and his loot was in a bag in his jacket. Maybe he put it in his coat because he didn't want to be seen carrying a bag of stuff and have someone remember a person carrying a bag away from a burglary once it got reported. Or maybe he just was at a store in town buying alcohol and taking a short cut back to his house. And maybe once he saw the girls and formulated the thought of assaulting them he then put the bag in his coat so his hands were free.

 

[Eileen730]

Interesting. Perhaps this trespasser is the murderer. Clearly he feels comfortable enough with that property that he's burglarizing it. I was also considering the thought that maybe he had just burglarized a property in town and his loot was in a bag in his jacket. Maybe he put it in his coat because he didn't want to be seen carrying a bag of stuff and have someone remember a person carrying a bag away from a burglary once it got reported. Or maybe he just was at a store in town buying alcohol and taking a short cut back to his house. And maybe once he saw the girls and formulated the thought of assaulting them he then put the bag in his coat so his hands were free.

I think this was years ago. I do t think it's the same person at all.

 

[VTX88]

I think this was years ago. I do t think it's the same person at all.

I tried to find the year it happened but just figured it was last year.

 

[Eileen730]

I tried to find the year it happened but just figured it was last year.

I think it's like 3 yrs.

 

[VTX88]

I wonder if LE continued to search all the wooded areas that the trail leads too to check for homeless camps. Or check houses and neighborhoods that connect to that trail (heading southeast off the bridge). I'll bet it's his shortcut into and out of the stores in Delphi.

 

[carpeverum]

IMO the reason an Amber Alert wouldn't have helped in this case is pretty obvious if you're familiar with the criteria for issuing one - you have to have a good suspect decription and/or a license plate number and this case had none of those things.

Very basic IMO.

I will find a link for amber alert criteria and edit it in.

ETA: ok, here.. .keeping in mind that each state comes up with it's own guidelines based on the official ones here, which include the following, which is what I was referring to above -

"There is enough descriptive information about the victim and the abduction for law enforcement to issue an AMBER Alert to assist in the recovery of the child."

https://www.amberalert.gov/faqs.htm

Agreed, GGE. That is why I stated in my original post that the circumstances with Libby and Abby did not meet the criteria--in my original post. They are strict guidelines, but IMO they're necessary (as explained within your informative link.)

 

[SuziQ]

Big oversight by me for not adding that link at the time I made that post. Thanks for the reminder, Jax49--will post it here and update my original post.

'An Amber Alert for two missing Carroll County girls wouldn't have helped in this case...' Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said Wednesday morning.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good

(Above link contains info on why I believe Libby and Abby may have been murdered prior to 5:30 p.m. on 2/13/17).

IMO, at the moment, that's the closest we have to TOD. Narrows it down. IMO, they passed away by the time the girls were reported missing.

Can you put this link in the media thread for future reference? Thanks!

 

[GGE]

Agreed, GGE. That is why I stated in my original post that the circumstances with Libby and Abby did not meet the criteria--in my original post. They are strict guidelines, but IMO they're necessary (as explained within your informative link.)

oh shoot I'm sorry if I missed something, I've got a few things going on at once here and broke my own rule of scanning (instead of slowing down and READING) before replying. :blushing: sorry about that, wasn't my intention to be difficult or anything! I better finish what I'm doing here before replying again, I know better. :blushing:

 

[SuziQ]

Is there a homeless camp back in those woods?

I would like confirmation of this as well. IMO, it would explain some of the burglaries in the area. Also, IMO, it would explain why BG was not immediately recognized.

 

[GGE]

I wonder if LE continued to search all the wooded areas that the trail leads too to check for homeless camps. Or check houses and neighborhoods that connect to that trail (heading southeast off the bridge). I'll bet it's his shortcut into and out of the stores in Delphi.

every time I read about homeless camps, I think about the scene in the LISK A&E documentaries by DanseMacabre (I forget which episode) where they happen across a homeless guy camping out in the brush and it's a pretty uncomfortable happening, IMO. I definitely recall TONS AND TONS of research to this end with E&L's case, and was a little surprised i hadn't seen more if it here, JMO.


ok off to do some stuff, back later everyone. :wave: