IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #29

[Jillrp]

I think the twist was that the victim recorded the perp.

jmopinion

No.


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[Hatfield]

[emoji15]Today's moment of embarrassment: I walk into the kitchen and hear a noise. Is that? Is that someone snapping their fingers? Neither of my children can snap, and my husband is not home, so it must be a finger-snapping intruder. Of course. (The worst kind.)

I grab the Windex. (It was nearest to me.) I'll spray Snappy-Snaps in the eyes, that's what I'll do. (Never mind that my daughter's harmonica was also close by. This is no time for a jam session.)

I creep around the corner, my finger on the trigger. Get ready to burn, eyes.

It's a quilt in the dryer, flapping around, making a rhythmic finger-snapping sound. Call off the police. I've got it all under control.

So, yeah. Me.[emoji53]


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LOL Great story.

Dont feel bad at all. You are not alone. Some of these horrible murder cases tend to do that to us.

I've lost count how many times I have stalked through my house late at night with my weapon in my hands ready to confront the seven foot tall 250 pound "intruder". Only to find out it was the door creaking in the wind or nothing at all.

 

[Jabarn]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7.


Possible Connections (is there something that stands out for Indiana girls, and want to know if it's true for Iowa girls?)
1. is the park where Indiana girls found a fishing spot (true for Iowa)
2. is the park where the Indiana girls found a hunting spot (true for Iowa)

I know this has been brought up here before and in certain news publications. At first, I thought they had to be two separate and distinct crimes, hundreds of miles away, but from what I have learned, there are disturbed people willing to do crimes against children in every state and cross states to get away with it. I don't get it. My life is so far removed from any understanding of why this is such an epidemic in our country. There is another slice of life that must perpetuate this kind of crime. But I do want to understand to prevent it.

Thanks to everyone holding on trying to understand this particular crime and who could've done it.

 

[roseofsharon]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7.


Possible Connections (is there something that stands out for Indiana girls, and want to know if it's true for Iowa girls?)
1. is the park where Indiana girls found a fishing spot (true for Iowa)
2. is the park where the Indiana girls found a hunting spot (true for Iowa)

Otto, respectfully, February 13, 2017 was a Monday. Here are a couple for this list. The states involved both start with the letter "I". Rivers in both states both start with the letter "W" ... Wapsipinicon in Iowa and Wabash in Indiana. Two of the girls names start with the letter "L". Reference to 1:00 p.m. is made in both of the cases.

 

[K.jill]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7.


Possible Connections (is there something that stands out for Indiana girls, and want to know if it's true for Iowa girls?)
1. is the park where Indiana girls found a fishing spot (true for Iowa)
2. is the park where the Indiana girls found a hunting spot (true for Iowa)

I find it interesting that had Elisabeth and Lyric lived they would be approx the same ages as Libby and Abby.

 

[fruity]

The only thing I see as a problem with the running theory is that IMO his head and body would be angled differently. I would think he would be looking ahead if running, especially if running at a target.

I think he would have been waking because that bridge is so rickety and there are gaps plus crumbling wood. IMO he has a gun in his pocket and was walking deliberately towards his targets.

This is not my observation but one I read a few threads back and I think it is very probable. My apologies to the person who originally noticed it - I can't remember your name but I applaud you noticing the detail.

In the first photo on the left hand side, there seems to be an outline of a person on the left hand edge. I think this is Abby. He then turns to dodge or step around her (second photo).

You can check that it is indeed the right order because of his foot placement compared to a darker piece of wood.

IMO he wouldn't have been running that close to Abby. He had zeroed in on his target, was watching his footing, and was thinking about what he was about to do next.

 

[Rosewater20]

LOL Great story.

Dont feel bad at all. You are not alone. Some of these horrible murder cases tend to do that to us.

I've lost count how many times I have stalked through my house late at night with my weapon in my hands ready to confront the seven foot tall 250 pound "intruder". Only to find out it was the door creaking in the wind or nothing at all.

Yes I get nervous too. Heart races...have to get baseball bat (not sure if that would work ) ,Have my phone ready to call 911....and it is a pipe creaking.

 

[LadyL]

someone said she was dressed up? I didn't see that here

When people keep saying Abby was dressed up I just shake my head. She wear converse, jeans, tank top and a zip up hoody. Nothing dress up. If she wears a skirt, dress, boots with bare legs that maybe called dress up. I don't see nervous and shyness here either, to me, it is just a perfectly normal teen minding her own business in the beautiful nature. I do think BG was fully prepared but I don't think the girls are waiting him. JMO


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[Jabarn]

Could the twist be BG was unable to complete the sexual assault? Some killers are impotent and become enraged when the cannot complete the assault and use objects to complete the assault. Andre chikatilo for example. Hence no seminal DNA? Jmo. Its a horrible thought.

I know it is horrible to think about, but there has to be something sick about a person who could kill two innocent girls. A rage killer is an example, but so is a lust killer, or some kind of hybrid. Anyway, keep thinking. I don't think any one here thought there would be a light answer anyway.

 

[Jillrp]

Hi. Does anyone know if there was ever an educated guess on BG height?
I mean they have measured every tree and surrounding thing, does ANYONE KNOW IF ANYONE MADE AN EDUCATED GUESS BASED ON SCALE AND INVESTIGATION ON THE HEIGHT OF BG? Thank you in advance sleuths


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[miss lisa]

I took a picture of my grand daughter earlier today on my iPhone and a thought came to me about the stills of the photos of BG. What if what we see as "stills" from what we believe is a video that Libby took isn't a "video" at all? What if it was originally a "LIVE" photo (moving picture) of Abby that also had the in the distance, in which it was blown up (also cropping out Abby) and that's why it's so pixelated and why we have only received the two stills? The "Live" photos only keep/takes 3 seconds worth. 1.5 seconds before the click of the shutter button and 1.5 after. That could explain why no more stills or a video has been shared by LE. Just a thought. 🐮

I know I love taking "Live" photos of my grand kids, it bring them to life.

 

[dalcanton]

Did anyone see the darn click bait this morning online? Said an arrest was made, but it was the arrest of the property owner and reading thru to the bottom of the article clearly stated that he was not involved in the murders. Had me for a minute..... Intense.

Yes, I saw it & fell victim to the click bait. For a second, though, my heart was fluttering with hope that the prep was finally caught. Terrible, misleading piece of journalism.

 

[Sickofsickos]

Wow. I didn't mean to imply that she was dressed "suggestively" or provocative in any way, just not dressed for hiking like Libby was.

 

[IceIce9]

I totally agree and asked the same question awhile ago. What in the world could get that response?

"Based on information from friends and family..,,"


Did friends and family tell LE the girls had a habit of staying out all night?

I think LE dropped the ball when the search was called off on account of no foul play being expected.

 

[LadyL]

what was Libby wearing?

Wow. I didn't mean to imply that she was dressed "suggestively" or provocative in any way, just not dressed for hiking like Libby was.

 

[Ghosthunter]

I know it is horrible to think about, but there has to be something sick about a person who could kill two innocent girls. A rage killer is an example, but so is a lust killer, or some kind of hybrid. Anyway, keep thinking. I don't think any one here thought there would be a light answer anyway.

Thanks for the reply. I will keep thinking!

 

[Momma2cam]

There are so many statistics that prove time and time again to be false - like perp is usually related to victim - false imo, especially when it comes to young students or women who work outside the home or girls playing outside. The perp just as likely can be a random stranger or someone who is familiar but not close to the victim (like a customer, neighbor or a local just driving by looking for trouble if not a complete random stranger/serial killer).
When anyone's life is examined this person or that person can look suspicious for various reasons. The cases seldom turn out according to the first impression/theory.

I revisited Jessica Herringa's case from 2012. A local guy she knew as a gas station customer flew under the radar for three years. His cousin knew he was the perp but he stayed silent. It is sickening. Still, no body found in Jessica's case
.
The sicko looks fairly normal. Everyone who knew him claims they're so surprised to find out he's behind her disappearance yet he missed work the days following her abduction and people knew he was creepy/disrespectful towards women.
I guess it's such a stretch to imagine someone you know personally can be this depraved even if they drive the car described and look like the sketch put forth.

At least Jessica's case gives us hope that other cases will be solved eventually too.

For children under 5, the perp is most likely to be a parent. For older children and teens, 22% of the time the perp is a stranger and 78% of the time the perp is known to the victim in some capacity.

"A parent was the perpetrator in the majority of homicides of
children under age 5"

"Among homicides for which the victim/offender relationships were known, 22% of victims were killed by strangers"

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf



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[EllieBee]

I find it interesting that had Elisabeth and Lyric lived they would be approx the same ages as Libby and Abby.

As do I. My own child is in step with all of these girls. Perhaps why I can't leave despite the whole "need sleep to function" thing.....

 

[LadyL]

this thread is going to get shut down again because people don't know how to read TOS

the least we could do for the girls is act like civilized adults and read some simple rules before posting

 

[lelandrob]

Did anyone read about this? It was posted on Fox59 (and other MSM), yesterday. The arrest was for child *advertiser censored*. They have a mugshot of the individual in the article.