IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #33

[No it's not]

[video=twitter;843494974943563776]https://twitter.com/ISPPeru/status/843494974943563776[/video]

Alexis McAdams Retweeted
Sgt. Tony Slocum‏@ISPPeru 23m
23 minutes ago

@AlexisMcAdamsTV nope... not even remotely true


(The tweet above is Sgt. Slocum replying to a random person who was asking if the rumor that a hiker had found bloody evidence in the woods weeks after the murders was true. Sgt. Slocum's reply is in the tweet.)

The "not even remotely true..", does that mean, there was no blood, because there was never any blood involved at all..?

-Nin

 

[cuffem]

I am stating my take on the case. I tend to be pretty quiet most times... but I feel like I have to have my say on things, I feel pretty strongly about this one, and I have for a long while. Sorry this is so long!

At the start of the investigation, LE throws as wide of a net as possible to include as many suspects as possible, so that they can be more assured that the real suspect is included. They accomplished this by a few notable methods: repeatedly asking for tips, setting up a reward, placing electronic billboards far and wide... etc. of course, they also have suspects based in facts of the case - and RL for example would certainly be included due to the fact the bodies were found on his property.

Early in the investigation, they were calling for people who had seen a hitchhiker, or someone carrying a knapsack IIRC. If RL did have a suspended license they may have been trying to find a witness that saw him (because they assumed he wasn't driving) or, he told them he hitchhiked to Lafayette, if that was his "alibi". So, it seems possible that LE was intensely interested in RL from the early days, although that is just a possibility.

Strikingly, we have numerous, numerous, numerous, public appearances by one person, RL. How odd, but! not uncommon that the criminal actually takes to the media and tries to control the story. We at WS have seen this in the past, have we not?

So, fast forward, and we now have a big new investigation into RL's property, including impounding his vehicle for forensics, a long and involved search warrant for items on his property, and in his home. This comes after an initial search of his property that was done weeks ago. Add to this, LE hauled him into custody on a probation violation.

I came to read about this case for the first time after the video stills and the voice capture had been released. But the very first thing I viewed about this case was a news report with an interview of RL within it. The next thing I did was look at earlier news reports that did contain the pictures and the link to the voice capture. As soon as I heard the voice capture, while looking at the stills, I got chills. I was convinced that RL fit the picture and sounded just like the voice... and here we are. I am usually the LAST person, or close to it on the forum to jump on a suspect. I tend to hold out until thee is solid irrefutable evidence. but I got chills, actual chills when I saw them. So I am going with my gut in this one, and really, LE's actions have done nothing whatsoever to dissuade me!

IMHO YMMV

I too thought something suspicious with his first interview and then the interview with him stating the same words sent a chill.I hear the same voice or very similar,like when relatives sound alike.Also the posture is close and if not him,it could be someone close to him.

 

[Rosewater20]

I find it unusual to use the word rape....especially if the girls were in fact molested/raped. It would be helpful to know how they were killed.

It does seem an insensitive choice of words. .

 

[Beth11311]

There are so many unknowns. I still can not possibly see BG and RL being the same person but for a moment let's put that aside. Things to consider:

- If the girls were at least familiar with RL, which we can assume they were because of RL stating he knew the families, then what would trigger Libby's decision to capture him on her phone? Wouldn't you be more likely to want to capture the creepy stranger than the old man you know?

- Assuming that the girls again knew who RL was, and banking on the fact that Libby was trying to record any evidence possible, don't you think she or Abby would have at some point through all of this called him by name? Pleading with him etc? LE would have his name recorded and we wouldn't be here 5 weeks later scratching our heads. And again with the recording if this was a trespassing situation IMO we would have RL yelling about staying off of his property, etc.

- LE was incredibly shook up during the press conferences, some of them clearly holding back tears. We have discussed the quotes about the recordings being "the stuff of nightmares". If this was a simple "tresspassing" situation, I for one am of the opinion that the murders and COD would be straightforward...perhaps a shooting? From all that can be gleaned from the interviews with LE and what they have said, I think it can be safe to assume that the girls were found in a manner that was highly disturbing (granted dead children are always upsetting but this seems to be an even more extreme case). This has not played to me as a simple and straightforward CODs.

- RL doesn't own the bridge, why would he consider the girls to be trespassing? There have been no reports of him hassling people on his property before...why start now at 77, and on land/bridge he didn't even have ownership of?

- This is more of a question as I don't know the answer for sure and haven't been able to find difinitive quotes, but I believe that several on WS stated that his probation was over and that he in fact WAS allowed to drive...that he had nothing stopping him from getting behind the wheel. If someone could confirm this that would be great as it would knock out a lot of this "RL needed to lie about driving" stuff. If I misunderstood apologies ahead of time!

The problem with these threads moving so fast if that if you don't read through every single post you may miss something highly valuable...

Also I would still suggest that you guys check out this podcast since we have so much time on our hands waiting for more facts: http://jerriwilliams.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/cropped-JERRI-WILLIAMS-iTUNES.jpg

It is with a retired FBI agent regarding child abduction stats, preventing victimization and more. Gave me some good insight that helped me with this investigation.

 

[Jax49]

After the girls were discovered dead, I remember LE was asking if anyone saw a hitchhiker or had seen a discarded backpack. Do other members here remember this? I have been thinking about the backpack comment and wonder if either one of the girls had taken a backpack with them on their hike that day. If so, and no backpack was found near the bodies or in the area of the bridge, perhaps that is why LE was asking people to look for a discarded backpack. I really can't think of another reason unless LE thinks that the killer had to have been carrying "supplies" that were used in the crime and they thought he may have used a backpack to carry and conceal his supplies. Any thoughts on this matter people?

I do remember the comment but never formed a opinion on why LE was asking for people to look for a backpack. I've always (just my opinion) thought that BG was carrying a kill kit under his jacket. We never heard anything indicating either girl had a backpack did we? MOO, of course.

 

[margarita25]

I do remember the comment but never formed a opinion on why LE was asking for people to look for a backpack. I've always (just my opinion) thought that BG was carrying a kill kit under his jacket. We never heard anything indicating either girl had a backpack did we? MOO, of course.

Agreeing Yes to everything you said, butI think maybe he had the kill kit elsewhere, didn't carry it onto the bridge, jmo, again, assuming a pedopile killing.

 

[AFTM]

The 77-year-old Logan has given many interviews to media organizations, including the Herald Journal, saying he was deeply upset that the girls were found on the property where he raised his son and has lived for 53 years.

“My home was violated. It’s been raped,” he said. “I can’t put a name on the emotion I feel.”

http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_7f349e5e-0b83-11e7-9a0b-1715669266c5.html

I am upset at some of the terminology used by RL he is using language here that leads to insight in crime scene. Although he probably is aware of crime scene as it happened on his property.

I guess I have to keep in mind that he is 77 years old and drinks. It is in his best interest that they search property completely...

I still don't know...


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[Mercedes]

Yeah, the interviews... if there were nothing else, that alone would cast a lot of suspicion upon him. One interview, ok. But to participate, lead the reporters on tours, dress up etc, yes, this is controlling the narrative and goes way beyond normal, imho.

Or trying to be helpful or lonely and trying to process the information.

 

[OpusEponymous]

Sigh...Please aquaint yourself with the rules:

NO: Sleeping
Cooking
House cleaning
Working
Showering

Or anything else that you would do that would consist of leaving this thread for extended periods please. (I removed dog walking because, well that's just not right, lol).

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Oh no. I just had a shower :shame: I better put myself on a timeout...

 

[Falling Down]

As for the media zeroing in on this warrant as opposed to the other 13 or so, oftentimes LE alerts the media to certain events. They may want to see how a certain someone reacts to the huge show of LE at this particular location. JMO. And no, I didn't get that from a movie...

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Bingo.

Sometimes they do this sort of thing as a diversionary tactic, friends in LE have told me it happens in some cases.

About RL:

Without coming across as defending the guy, how would members here feel if he hadn't talked to the media at all?

 

[AFTM]

Yeah, the interviews... if there were nothing else, that alone would cast a lot of suspicion upon him. One interview, ok. But to participate, lead the reporters on tours, dress up etc, yes, this is controlling the narrative and goes way beyond normal, imho.

Wondering if this is what led police back to him...


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[Historydetective63]

No, we never heard why LE was asking people to be on the look out for a discarded backpack. That seems like something very specific to be looking for.
I think BG looks to be carrying items inside of his blue jacket and possibly in a pack around his waist.
I really wonder why LE was looking for a discarded backpack...

 

[Momma2cam]

Ok, this is MOO only but gathered from many puzzle pieces along the way thanks to everyone that posted anything on this case. Yes, so much repetition and rehashing but it all matters - it all swirls around until it starts to click and every contribution is part of the puzzle. I admittedly still have some missing or unclear pieces and I COULD BE 1000% WRONG but...


It is JMO that RL was not home when the girls were killed and he had NO knowledge of the crime at that time. I believe he may have been less than truthful with his alibi later due to his probation and that is what they finally used to land him in the pokey. I don't believe LE thinks RL is the primary suspect but I think they feel sure RL knows who is (as do they). I believe in MOO that RL may have found out as early as sometime after the first search for what was then "missing girls" was completed and called off for the night. I think it turned out that BG is very well-known to RL which compelled RL to then begin assisting BG so that BG would not be discovered. It is possible that he still did not quite find out until a few days later but at some point RL became aware. I do not think RL was directly involved in killing A&L in any way.


I am reminded here of the tagline of Netflix' show Bloodline: "We are not bad people, but we did a bad thing". I think this is applies very much to RL and his involvement IMO. As an aside, I am still feeling sad for his happy, little dog.


MOO I think it is possible the girls' bodies were moved from or through RL's property (or from the grain bin through RL's property) down to where they were ultimately found but that the intention was possibly to get them in the water to destroy evidence at the very least and to possibly make it seem they had fallen from the bridge or had some other accident. (Remember, we do not know COD and LE seemed uncertain of the scene upon the discovery - I don't have time now to find links so MOO this but I think this is pretty well stipulated info at this point.) Also, how many of us have wondered why would a killer leave the bodies on his own property? I don't think that was the plan at all but there was some reason they didn't make it off the property and into the water. I am NOT saying RL is the killer here, just a general "no one in their right mind would want this on their own property" kind of thing.


It is JMO that Libby's phone likely did ping or otherwise appear to be located on Bicycle Bridge Road (in Delphi) but may have been in a vehicle parked on BBR which caused the SW to be for the wrong house. I think it may have been balled up in other crime scene evidence in the vehicle or something but I do not think it was in Libby's possession at this time. I really am not settled on whether LE has the actual phone or not but I feel certain that data from attempting to locate it is what lead to BBR either way. I am skeptical of it being cell phone tower pinging and think it is more likely it was phone device tracking done by a member of Libby's family and/or LE. It must have been something reliable enough to get the SW at any rate IMO. I believe BBR is a key component in this case if you are so inclined to research it further.


MOO but I suspect LE's mention of "blind alleys needing to be closed" (not a direct quote) would include things like RSOs and drifter types at this point. I think they threw everything at this case in the early days to cover all the bases (billboards, national coverage, etc) and rightfully, thankfully so. I think the picture began to reveal itself to LE once they were able to get their bearings on the case and get people interviewed and alibis checked and so on.


Lastly, it is MOO that this case is on it's way to resolution and I hope the arrest goes smoothly and there are no standoffs or anything. I think BG must know they are about to nab their guy. MOO


The above is my opinion only.

Fwiw, this is pretty much exactly my theory, too. I have a feeling the searches have been related but that's MOO.

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[emilie42]

Wanted to chip in on the use of word "rape" which many have commented on, so no specific post to "reply" to, but...

I've noticed, especially in the last 10 years or so, that lots of men (never women, in my experience), even some well-meaning men, make unfortunate use of the word "rape" as a synonym for "abused", "destroyed" or even just "taken advantage of", as in, for example, feeling as though one payed too much for a television set or something. It REALLY bothers me, and, as a mom to boys, I've intend to school them on never using that word so casually and certainly not to describe something that has nothing to do with having one's choices/will taken away violently. I'm a gamer and I've had to quit most online gaming because that word is thrown around so casually by the mostly-male gaming community as a casual, almost cheerful way of saying someone really got the better of them. I don't think most men mean any harm by it, but that's a feeble excuse. Anyway. My point is that I don't read too much into a man making a comment like that. Even in his own words, he was struggling to put a word to the emotion he was feeling. After my home was burglarized, it did feel like the sanctity of my home had been "violated" in a very cruel and violent manner. Maybe *I* wouldn't have said "raped" but I wouldn't have been surprised to hear my husband put it in those terms. (Disappointed, yes; but not surprised.)

OTOH, if he does know something, it could have been a deliberate attempt to paint himself as a victim and therefore try to steer any suspicion away from himself. But I'm sort of leaning towards it being just an ignorant guy thing. Didn't mean anything by it, other than to try to explain that his home feels violated.

 

[margarita25]

Curtis Reeves comes to mind.

There are many who are just crazy and armed, and wanting to use their guns.

In the episodes of Fear Thy Neighbor I mentioned dementia played a key.

 

[jillycat]

We just don't know. My own theory has always been a bit different. I think no one marched them to the murder site. I think they went there on their own. Yes, Libby saw the suspicious BG but he simply left (or so the girls thought). Then Abby suggested more pictures near her favorite fishing spot (or just near the creek below if the fishing photo is of another bridge). The girls went there to take more photos not realizing that BG was observing them from a distance. Something happened at or near the spot where they were found. "Down the hill" could even have been recorded accidentally by BG removing Libby's phone from her possession. THis is all just my opinion but I'm not sure the narrative of "marching the girls" anywhere is actually the simplest explanation. HOwever, your guess is as good as mine, so I'm not arguing against it. This is just my own view. MOO

That's an interesting alternative to consider. I can't keep up with all the geography and distance, so if we consider that the girls might have wandered on their own to the place, or close to the place where they were found, how long would it have taken then to get from the place on the bridge where that last shot of Abby was taken to that point?

 

[Beth11311]

I do remember the comment but never formed a opinion on why LE was asking for people to look for a backpack. I've always (just my opinion) thought that BG was carrying a kill kit under his jacket. We never heard anything indicating either girl had a backpack did we? MOO, of course.

There was never any mention that I saw about either girl having a backpack and I am of the opinion that if they did and it was considered an important thing to look for that they would have pushed harder with the public to encourage us/them to look for the backpack, be aware etc. It was never really brought up again.
ETA: I ageee that he may have had a kill kit...I think that LE was likely throwing darts so to speak with the backpack mention hoping something would land.

 

[neesaki]

And he saw, got pissed but by the time he got outside they had moved on, so he followed them to the bridge and marched them back to where the transgression occurred? Anything is possible at this point in time.

We. Know. Next. To. Nothing.

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Just to clarify, the bridge itself isn't on private property, correct? So I'm guessing that if there was any trespassing onto private property it would have been prior to the bridge ?

I have to agree that the trespassing theory isn't beyond belief, but how horrific to think someone would carry out an assassination on two young teen girls. Would definitely have to be someone who is a full blown lunatic, mean SOB; or one of those people who gets that way when under the influence of a substance. I'm just sitting here absorbing this, and for some unexplained reason feel a dark sense of dread.
ETA: which really makes no sense, the poor girls are already gone. :cry:

I wonder if there was any reports of anyone hearing gun shots fired.

And welcome to websleuths Webwatcher1945! :welcome:

BTW, are you local? TIA

 

[margarita25]

Ugh. Why so many interviews???

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I think the media was likely all in his face.

 

[bessie]

I am upset at some of the terminology used by RL he is using language here that leads to insight in crime scene. Although he probably is aware of crime scene as it happened on his property.

I guess I have to keep in mind that he is 77 years old and drinks. It is in his best interest that they search property completely...

I still don't know...


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My house once was broken into while we were away. The burglar rifled through our clothing drawers, including the ones where I stored my panties and bras. I used the same words -- "violated" and "raped" to describe my feelings afterward. It's not uncommon. JMO