IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[CluelessWonder]

Gitana1 is one of our amazing verified legal eagles here. That doesn't mean you have to agree with her theory of course, but she is speaking from a place of experience. And she is quite often dead on.

BTW, she needs no defending by me of course, I just like to see our verified members get just a wee bit of respect for all of the input they give us freely and enthusiastically.[emoji4]

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You're going to give her a big head!

 

[amkidd78]

Im curious as too why did he go through risking being seen crossing the creek with two girls just to kill them 50 ft on the opposite side? Why there? Why not at the bottom of the hill? Would that lead us to believe he had parked on that side?

 

[Bently]

OT - if I were a moderator than any post that began with "OT" would automatically be deleted. Readers are here to read about a specific topic. [emoji50]


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40 minutes later, your post that starts with OT stands :wink:

It is common in threads because many people have many interests on other cases, and information to share :moo: which often is enlightening to many.

If the discussion lasts too long, the moderators may delete it.

 

[Bemused]

That nagging common sense just keeps popping up. If you are in a "rage", you shove someone off a bridge. You don't walk someone however far they walked, to do them in. Hence the saying "walk it off". [emoji848]


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People are certainly entitled to their opinions, but I've been surprised at the leaps in logic or ignoring logic in some.

 

[jenthern]

I saw a quote where RL tells the Media the days off the kid's had - it was several.

I thought it strange he would know kid's school schedule.

.

He knew they were off from school because they were there hiking, went missing and were murdered. At the time he gave the interview, I knew they were off from school too and I live in Florida. That's probably the only reason he knew. (or he has grandkids that were off, or saw kids in town, or drove by the school and saw they were off, or I guess a variety of other reasons.)

 

[ShellyBelly]

JMO but I don't think this had anything to do with luck. I feel this was well planned.

1.) school was out on 2/13 and this was well known..

2) area where bodies were found is not easy to access or see from the bridge.

3) trails are not easy to find and are not well labeled ( according to members who have actually been to the area)

4) timeline for getting the girls off the bridge and out of sight is very tight... snapchat photo of Abby is at 2:07 pm... missing by 3:30 with family actively looking and calling.. that means abducting them and getting them both silently off the trails in only one hour... If you believe that they were murdered by 3:30 and BG was already gone you can see just how tight that is...absolutely no room for error...keep in mind it has been estimated to be a 20 minute walk from the bridge to where the bodies were recovered..even if they were immediately abducted at say 2:15 that doesn't put them at the crime scene until approximately 2:35- 2:40...with only 20 minutes to kill and possibly sexual assault one or both girls... clean everything up and get out of dodge. Remember that there's a female hiker on the bridge at 3:50 who said she didn't see or hear anything out of the ordinary...

5) RL just happens to be gone buying tropical fish when all this is going down on his property..hmmm. I really wonder if he has an aquarium? Maybe he really did go to buy a fish at someone's suggestion. If he was at a bar why did he go? A pretty risky thing to do knowing that if you're caught you're headed back to jail. Did someone agree to cover for him and be RL's alibi? Imagine RL's shock when he came home to the ensuing shock of what had happened. JMO I really think the girls were murdered in his home ( just as he said ) and I think he left early the next day to get things to clean up his home once they were moved to the location they were found. I don't think he's BG I think he is genuinely shocked by what happened but I think he knows who did this. MOO... but I will eat my hat if this turns out to be some really lucky and clever, random, drifter SK...

Regarding your #4, What if they intended to meet someone (or some people) for somesort of "transaction" (expecting to be back on the trail for pickup time), walked out of woods with them, did the "transaction" (meetup person/people drove them somewhere - thus explaining the grandfather saying the phone pinged all over). When they were returned to the trail (what time did the search start?), one of the people got spooked or just had creepy tendencies and killed them then.

 

[SuziQ]

OT - if I were a moderator than any post that began with "OT" would automatically be deleted. Readers are here to read about a specific topic. [emoji50]


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O/T allows us to scroll and roll by them.

Posters are getting really close to telling each other how to post and what to post and sleuth.

Let's not get this thread shut down... again!

 

[Bemused]

This is what/where i am confused, if the SW is sealed how is it known what the probable cause is in reference too?

In reference to the murders?

In reference to the probation violation?

Jmo

I'm pretty sure a 10 hour search isn't in reference to a probation violation & Im also pretty sure the ISP Sgt said as much to the media on Friday.

 

[CluelessWonder]

Here are the things I wonder about:

1. Since trash pick up was Feb. 14, did police check the local dump and retrieve and search every bag of garbage? I hope so. Because people who commit crimes tend to throw out clothing, shoes, etc.

2. I wonder how many cameras they checked to see if the killer is spotted anywhere else in that clothing, especially that jacket.

3. I wonder if there are bullet fragments involved that could be traced to a murder weapon.

 

[mazblondie]

I thought about something that could be a possibility--what if there was an accident for one in a rage, then a coverup on the second & staging to make it look like a madman, stranger, SK, whatever was responsible.

You most definetely be could be right. But its hard to hide the effects of a rage attack to look like a planned one IMO.

 

[tokyorose]

Im curious as too why did he go through risking being seen crossing the creek with two girls just to kill them 50 ft on the opposite side? Why there? Why not at the bottom of the hill? Would that lead us to believe he had parked on that side?

I don't think it has been firmly established that they crossed the creek. JMO that they did not cross the creek, way too risky. I wish he had chosen that route... would have given the girls a nice opportunity to escape. Crossing a creek is noisy ( with the splashing of three people) potentially slippery with a great likelihood of losing your footing and splashing gun and all into the water... and slow. MOO is that they were taken either by car or on foot to RL's home where they were killed and the bodies placed near the creek sometime in the middle of the night.. MOO

 

[EyeCandy]

That would be me. The denim itself is very similar to some I've worked with that isn't produced as *much* as it once was. Not being snarky to you, but we don't need 'dad jean' drama again lol.

My point is that when I source fabric for work, the denim that make up the jeans seems incredibly heavy and dense. Sure it's produced now, but not in as large quantities. They also look bigger than normal dad jeans. As if something could be under them.

Tractor Supply and MANY other places sell these heavier denims! I just bought my son heavier jeans at Tractor Supply for xmas Wrangler makes them and so does Rustler! Workers want quality jeans for work that hold up IMO this guy is a not a fashion model he's most like a handyman or worker of some sort! I till keep thinking back to the packing plant

 

[ShellyBelly]

JMO but I don't think this had anything to do with luck. I feel this was well planned.

1.) school was out on 2/13 and this was well known..

2) area where bodies were found is not easy to access or see from the bridge.

3) trails are not easy to find and are not well labeled ( according to members who have actually been to the area)

4) timeline for getting the girls off the bridge and out of sight is very tight... snapchat photo of Abby is at 2:07 pm... missing by 3:30 with family actively looking and calling.. that means abducting them and getting them both silently off the trails in only one hour... If you believe that they were murdered by 3:30 and BG was already gone you can see just how tight that is...absolutely no room for error...keep in mind it has been estimated to be a 20 minute walk from the bridge to where the bodies were recovered..even if they were immediately abducted at say 2:15 that doesn't put them at the crime scene until approximately 2:35- 2:40...with only 20 minutes to kill and possibly sexual assault one or both girls... clean everything up and get out of dodge. Remember that there's a female hiker on the bridge at 3:50 who said she didn't see or hear anything out of the ordinary...

5) RL just happens to be gone buying tropical fish when all this is going down on his property..hmmm. I really wonder if he has an aquarium? Maybe he really did go to buy a fish at someone's suggestion. If he was at a bar why did he go? A pretty risky thing to do knowing that if you're caught you're headed back to jail. Did someone agree to cover for him and be RL's alibi? Imagine RL's shock when he came home to the ensuing shock of what had happened. JMO I really think the girls were murdered in his home ( just as he said ) and I think he left early the next day to get things to clean up his home once they were moved to the location they were found. I don't think he's BG I think he is genuinely shocked by what happened but I think he knows who did this. MOO... but I will eat my hat if this turns out to be some really lucky and clever, random, drifter SK...

Random encounter theory. I think they encountered BG randomly earlier in the walk, before the bridge. He is already in the area near the drop off. (Not waiting for them just doing own creepy thing) Maybe he passed them on the trail? He said something to them or gave a creepy vibe but nothing directly threatening. They continued to the bridge to take some photos. Libby looks up and sees that the BG has circled back and is now walking back towards them. She posts a SnapChat video with a caption like "creepy guy that talked to us" and when he approaches she has the video rolling so she can record if he says something creepy to them again, so she can show her parents or someone later. She isn't anticipating that he pulls out handgun, which would be scary and they would comply with his demands.

 

[Blythe]

I don't think RL is involved in any way, shape, or form. I think LE has few if any real solid leads so they are eliminating the first most highly visible potential suspect first.

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6
I agree. MOO I don't believe tips have "added up". Of course, speculation aside, the next 4-6 weeks will tell. JMO

 

[Bus_face]

Here are the things I wonder about:

1. Since trash pick up was Feb. 14, did police check the local dump and retrieve and search every bag of garbage? I hope so. Because people who commit crimes tend to throw out clothing, shoes, etc.

2. I wonder how many cameras they checked to see if the killer is spotted anywhere else in that clothing, especially that jacket.

3. I wonder if there are bullet fragments involved that could be traced to a murder weapon.

Right, and if #2 is negative then maybe guy lives walking distance?

The pinging all over town remark still gets me as well. I wish they'd give the public some update.

 

[tokyorose]

Random encounter theory. I think they encountered BG randomly earlier in the walk, before the bridge. He is already in the area near the drop off. (Not waiting for them just doing own creepy thing) Maybe he passed them on the trail? He said something to them or gave a creepy vibe but nothing directly threatening. They continued to the bridge to take some photos. Libby looks up and sees that the BG has circled back and is now walking back towards them. She posts a SnapChat video with a caption like "creepy guy that talked to us" and when he approaches she has the video rolling so she can record if he says something creepy to them again, so she can show her parents or someone later. She isn't anticipating that he pulls out handgun, which would be scary and they would comply with his demands.

With the limited information we have anything's possible but I think the odds of this happening just exactly right ( from the perspective of BG) are slim to none.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Snark all you want, I was snarky yesterday on the thread I should clarify that the BG was being bold BUT he picked a property not knowing that the alcohol circus will be performing. I agree with what you said.

"alcoholic circus?" really...

 

[St. Anthony2017]

What if someone wanted RL to sell his land? Having 2 young girls murdered in your property would be so upsetting that he may now want to move.in this way it could have been a random hit by someone paid to get RL to sell his land.

 

[amkidd78]

I don't think it has been firmly established that they crossed the creek. JMO that they did not cross the creek, way too risky. I wish he had chosen that route... would have given the girls a nice opportunity to escape. Crossing a creek is noisy ( with the splashing of three people) potentially slippery with a great likelihood of losing your footing and splashing gun and all into the water... and slow. MOO is that they were taken either by car or on foot to RL's home where they were killed and the bodies placed near the creek sometime in the middle of the night.. MOO

If they did not cross the creek they how did they get to the bank on the other side? The direction they were traveling was southeast on the bridge from all the pictures provided on her snapchat. At the end of the bridge is where he said based on evidence to get down the hill......that would put them on the opposite side of the creek from where they were found.

 

[Bemused]

You most definetely be could be right. But its hard to hide the effects of a rage attack to look like a planned one IMO.

I'm mad and push you. You fall and hit your head. You're either already dead or I think you are. Your friend witnesses the act, so I panic and have to silence them. I can't bear the shame or horror of everyone in my small town knowing what I did, so I maybe cause additional injuries in some method and I stage your bodies to what I think looks like a madman or SK would do. I then am happy to show the media around while making statements about things, and I leave my property even though there is an active search on.