IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #41

[sbaughman]

I'm going off in a different direction. JMOO Maybe I've been at it too long. Not sure.

I've read all threads, all posts. If I remember correctly, I've read it more than once, that one of the girls had an opportunity to get away. Instead, she chose to stay with her friend. Because she loved her, because they were inseparable. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. May God have mercy on all of us seeking to find the answers here.

Maybe LE knows this from the recording, I'm not sure where exactly this info came from. My device and internet speed is in no condition to root through the vast amount of threats, posts, etc, for this particular comment( s)

Where I'm going- - - if it is true that one had the opportunity to leave, that seems to me to mean that the other girl was targeted. Does that seem too weird to contemplate? So, the other girl was the sole target? The other had the opportunity to leave, but didnt. If that's true, that means the man didn't care if the other girl left, didn't care that she was going to run for help, didn't care that she could ID him and be a perfect witness.

Why would the man not be afraid to let her go? Not be afraid to be identified?

I am not passing judgement on the girl who could have gotten away, but chose to stay. Never would I. My heart breaks for these girls and their families.

What I'm getting at, what could be the circumstance that this murderer would have allowed the other girl to get away? This has never made any sense to me.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance for helping me get a perspective or insight here.

I took this quote as simply meaning the girls chose not to run and not to separate. Statistically speaking, they have a better chance of surviving if they separate (he can't chase both of them). Since he couldn't murder both of them at the same time, one had to have gone first, which means either he had the other girl bound or restrained in some way, was physically threatening her (had a knife to her throat and a gun pointed at the other girl), or the girl would have had an opportunity to escape while he was busy with the other one. JMO

If one of the girls were targeted, which I believe is a definite possibility, he likely killed the girl who WASN'T the target first, because he had no use for her. And he'd have to kill her, because you're right, she's the perfect witness. And of course she's going to run for help. I don't believe he gave either of them the opportunity to get away, JMO. At most, maybe he screamed at the one who was not the target to run, and she chose not to, but that is a stretch IMO. If she could have identified him or gotten help, her fate was sealed IMO.


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[ImnoSherlock]

I see everything you are saying seems to be accurate in the photos even the growth coming thru just in front of her feet.Where is the platform just behind her on the left?

Hi ocgrad. Yes but actually the new picture is further from the bridge entrance than where Abby's photo is taken from.

You can see where Abby would be on the new picture: Note the trees on the right. The first bright tree is a tree that Abby had not reached yet. The next tree down is the tree over Abby's right shoulder. Further down you see a tree with a large brown round bush at the base and you can also see that tree in the picture of Abby. Note that on the left of the picture you can see the water with the sandbar in the middle. That also verifies that we are looking back towards the northwest entrance.

So you can see that this picture is even farther away and you can see that there are people at the end easily,without even enlarging it. HTH

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I believe(MOO)wholeheartedly that the girls being found on his land was all the PC needed.

Also, remember it was a Probable Cause SW, I looked that up. Pretty telling.

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[Eclipse]

I'm going off in a different direction. JMOO Maybe I've been at it too long. Not sure.

I've read all threads, all posts. If I remember correctly, I've read it more than once, that one of the girls had an opportunity to get away. Instead, she chose to stay with her friend. Because she loved her, because they were inseparable. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. May God have mercy on all of us seeking to find the answers here.

Maybe LE knows this from the recording, I'm not sure where exactly this info came from. My device and internet speed is in no condition to root through the vast amount of threats, posts, etc, for this particular comment( s)

Where I'm going- - - if it is true that one had the opportunity to leave, that seems to me to mean that the other girl was targeted. Does that seem too weird to contemplate? So, the other girl was the sole target? The other had the opportunity to leave, but didnt. If that's true, that means the man didn't care if the other girl left, didn't care that she was going to run for help, didn't care that she could ID him and be a perfect witness.

Why would the man not be afraid to let her go? Not be afraid to be identified?

I am not passing judgement on the girl who could have gotten away, but chose to stay. Never would I. My heart breaks for these girls and their families.

What I'm getting at, what could be the circumstance that this murderer would have allowed the other girl to get away? This has never made any sense to me.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance for helping me get a perspective or insight here.

How was it concluded that one had the opportunity to leave the other?

 

[sbaughman]

Specifically one caught on video or film.

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I don't believe they have jurisdiction in any sexual assault cases, unless it was being filmed to be distributed online (I know they deal a lot with cyber crime and child predators). I think the investigating agency would have to request their help


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[Theforeigner]

This March 28, 2017 news report including a "Suspect photo provided by ISP" (the photo of BG)
AND an "audio of suspect provided by ISP" is very odd!

Because the "audio of suspect provided by ISP" is NOT the "down the hill" audio,
but instead som man talking about som therapy for autistic children !

The day it was posted I thought; oh well they did a big mistake and soon they will
realize their mistake and change it to the "down the hill" audio.
But today March 30 the "therapy for autistic children" audio is still there

Anyone know anything about this ?

http://wibqam.com/news/articles/2017/mar/28/still-hope-for-investigators-in-delphi-case/

"Still Hope For Investigators In Delphi Case"
Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:24 a.m. EDT by Frank Rush

PS. Thanks for make me aware that I posted the wrong link, and for removing the post

 

[Patriot10]

In my town, the 3rd DUI (has to be a conviction not just an arrest) within 10 years is also a felony.

So I found this myself. Yes. In Indiana the third DUI is a felony.


A third DUI conviction in Indiana within ten years is a felony. In the Indiana Code, the phrase "Operating While Intoxicated" (OWI) is used to describe driving under the influence (DUI). People charged with a DUI/OWI face administrative penalties and criminal penalties.
http://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/third-offense-dui-indiana.htm

 

[Eclipse]

I took this quote as simply meaning the girls chose not to run and not to separate. Statistically speaking, they have a better chance of surviving if they separate (he can't chase both of them). Since he couldn't murder both of them at the same time, one had to have gone first, which means either he had the other girl bound or restrained in some way, was physically threatening her (had a knife to her throat and a gun pointed at the other girl), or the girl would have had an opportunity to escape while he was busy with the other one. JMO

If one of the girls were targeted, which I believe is a definite possibility, he likely killed the girl who WASN'T the target first, because he had no use for her. And he'd have to kill her, because you're right, she's the perfect witness. And of course she's going to run for help. I don't believe he gave either of them the opportunity to get away, JMO. At most, maybe he screamed at the one who was not the target to run, and she chose not to, but that is a stretch IMO. If she could have identified him or gotten help, her fate was sealed IMO.


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OK. I remember the quote from relatives sating that the girls were such good friends one would never leave the other. I agree with you assessment of that.

 

[Comanche heart]

I do not if the state of Indiana requires DNA for third DUI charges.
RL was out of county which would be a violation of his probation.
My belief is that someone entered his home and probably killed these sweet girls on his property.
If he really was involved in these girls murders there is NO way he would he have allowed law enforcement and searchers on his property.
By the way where are Delphi residents who believe this man is guilty as most people in small communities know who the creepy old men are.

 

[Hazelnutty]

How was it concluded that one had the opportunity to leave the other?

3rd paragraph in my comment.

 

[Patriot10]

JMO..I often tend to think a gun was used to subdue them, but not used in the actual murders. Reason being, Libby started recording when he was still a number of feet away (forget actually how far) and not right up on them. They were closer to the end of the bridge/land then he was and as he got closer they could have ran..I think it would have been harder for him to run still being on that bridge, until he got off it..which would possibly have given them time to get a decent amt of distance away from him. A gun would have given him the ability to subdue them even if there was some distance between them.

Agree with you-- the case also reminds me of the Zodiac murders.

In one case, the Zodiac confronted two victims who were lounging by a lake. He used both a knife and a gun. The gun was used to control the two initially, and when he had both victims immobilized with rope, he switched to the knife to kill them. I think one person survived.

The gun is actually a bluff in that situation--- because the last thing the killer wants to do obviously is to make so much noise he will attract the attention of witnesses/passersby. But most people sadly, are not in any position to argue with a person pointing a gun at them. They do as they are told. But remember, if you are ever in a similar situation that firing a gun is the last thing the killer wants to do (for this type of crime). It blows his cover immediately and will bring people to the area.

Let's say he does shoot me. Well, if it's not a shot to my brain or heart, I still have a fighting chance to survive. Most people don't realize it really takes a LOT to kill a human being. Even a gunshot does not mean instant death. People can survive a lot and especially if they have the will to survive.

 

[Theforeigner]

This Feb 24, 2017, news report has probably bin posted before but just in case it has not.

http://kfor.com/2017/02/24/dna-evid...a-teens-were-found-murdered-now-top-priority/

DNA evidence discovered at scene where two Indiana teens were found murdered now top priority
POSTED 12:37 PM, FEBRUARY 24, 2017, BY DALLAS FRANKLIN, UPDATED AT 12:39PM, FEBRUARY 24, 2017

And yes, I do know of the DNA discussion, that it was first said by LE they had DNA and then they
kind of took it back, but in this news report it seems SO convincing that they actually DID find DNA.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

When is RL getting out of jail?

 

[liltexans]

So wouldn't the easiest way to eliminate a POI is to know if they are afraid of heights?

Wouldn't sleuthing that in some way be more telling than whether the clothes match someone elses or their hips or nose (no offense NIN because I am in awe of your work).

My point was merely to head in a different direction. This just seems to basic to me.

So how do we sleuth someone to determine this? :thinking:

I don't know how we can sleuth someone to determine if they are afraid of heights. It's not going to be listed in any court document or anything official that we could access for a person. I think it would be hearsay unless there's a direct quote from a POI made to the media or something.

 

[Nightwatch2020]

MOO - I can't get over how silent LE has been. Not just with the details related to the girls (they are minors so this doesn't surprise me) but just how little of a warning they have given to the town.

Yes, they have told them to travel in larger groups instead of pairs and to exercise more situational awareness especially among teens but IMHO I would think they would raise more of an (proverbial) alarm if they believed a killer was living amongst them. Something just isn't sitting right with me in regards to that ands it's definitely had an affect on my view of who the perp could be.

Could it be a drifter? Local homeless man? Truck driver w/ties to area? Or maybe someone who is newer to town (IIRC *Libby* had recently relocated to the area?) and hasn't really built up any local presence.

But IF it is a local I know Delphi is basically a "one horse town" and you'd be amazed how small this world really is and how many people who live in the larger cities have ties to small towns like Delphi. I've also noticed the posts mentioning the meth epidemic in the area. I have never known any meth addicts but I do know cocaine addicts and heroin addicts and of course alcoholics and in my experience, using their vernacular - "the streets talk".

IMHO If BG is a local then there is someone out there who knows who did this. However, IMOO if they haven't called in a tip or turned the person over to LE already then they are most likely just as awful and criminal as BG and won't say a word until the gavel of justice is about to come down on them too. Which depresses me more than I can put into words.

 

[liltexans]

When is RL getting out of jail?

His evidentiary hearing for his probation violation is at 3 pm local time on Monday, April 3rd. At that time, presumably, the judge will either grant bond, revoke his probation and send him to prison to serve his 2 year sentence, or grant another continuance, if requested by RL's attorney.

 

[GhostGhost]

-
Have you ever heard a professional Coach say - yeah, we have a failed program?

The Cops in this case are part cheerleader, too.

It directly benefits them to paint it rosy and dip it in sugar.

They're not going to say we have no where to go, or we should have done something differently.

-

 

[Patriot10]

Without going to the actual drop off point for the two girls, the bridge they walked and the woods they had to have walked to get to the actual murder scene it would really be hard to speculate on whether the perp is local or not.

I've been to many crime scenes and there are some that just tell you right away--- this was an inside job because no one would know this, this and this unless this person had either worked/lived at that place or been there in the past. Same with this murder. If the area of the murder is so remote and difficult to access that only a local would know it, well that tells me a lot.

I sure as heck did not know a town called Delphi even existed before this case. I'm sure a lot of people have no idea that my town even exists for that matter.

MOO - I can't get over how silent LE has been. Not just with the details related to the girls (they are minors so this doesn't surprise me) but just how little of a warning they have given to the town.

Yes, they have told them to travel in larger groups instead of pairs and to exercise more situational awareness especially among teens but IMHO I would think they would raise more of an (proverbial) alarm if they believed a killer was living amongst them. Something just isn't sitting right with me in regards to that ands it's definitely had an affect on my view of who the perp could be.

Could it be a drifter? Local homeless man? Truck driver w/ties to area? Or maybe someone who is newer to town (IIRC *Libby* had recently relocated to the area?) and hasn't really built up any local presence.

But IF it is a local I know Delphi is basically a "one horse town" and you'd be amazed how small this world really is and how many people who live in the larger cities have ties to small towns like Delphi. I've also noticed the posts mentioning the meth epidemic in the area. I have never known any meth addicts but I do know cocaine addicts and heroin addicts and of course alcoholics and in my experience, using their vernacular - "the streets talk".

IMHO If BG is a local then there is someone out there who knows who did this. However, IMOO if they haven't called in a tip or turned the person over to LE already then they are most likely just as awful and criminal as BG and won't say a word until the gavel of justice is about to come down on them too. Which depresses me more than I can put into words.

 

[GangaMa]

I'm going off in a different direction. JMOO Maybe I've been at it too long. Not sure.

I've read all threads, all posts. If I remember correctly, I've read it more than once, that one of the girls had an opportunity to get away. Instead, she chose to stay with her friend. Because she loved her, because they were inseparable. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. May God have mercy on all of us seeking to find the answers here.

Maybe LE knows this from the recording, I'm not sure where exactly this info came from. My device and internet speed is in no condition to root through the vast amount of threats, posts, etc, for this particular comment( s)

Where I'm going- - - if it is true that one had the opportunity to leave, that seems to me to mean that the other girl was targeted. Does that seem too weird to contemplate? So, the other girl was the sole target? The other had the opportunity to leave, but didnt. If that's true, that means the man didn't care if the other girl left, didn't care that she was going to run for help, didn't care that she could ID him and be a perfect witness.

Why would the man not be afraid to let her go? Not be afraid to be identified?

I am not passing judgement on the girl who could have gotten away, but chose to stay. Never would I. My heart breaks for these girls and their families.

What I'm getting at, what could be the circumstance that this murderer would have allowed the other girl to get away? This has never made any sense to me.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance for helping me get a perspective or insight here.

I think - MOO - that it's more logical to look at the possibility that one of the two could have gotten away as sheer speculation on our parts. That scenario was mentioned here in response to questions about how the perp controlled two girls at once. Speculation (here) was and is that he might have used a gun, threatening to kill one if the other didn't cooperate. It wouldn't mean that only one was targeted, just that only one could be shot at a time (in their minds).
So, given that the "run away" idea is just an idea and is surrounded by issues of power and control and consequences, we can speculate two things : A) one of them (either one) might have been able to make a run for it with a very dicey outcome (I would never be convinced that the gun wouldn't be fired at me no matter how hard I ran) and a friend left to die, or B) neither of them felt that escape was an option. We, as sleuthers, have no idea what really happened. There is no reason to assume that at any point the perp didn't care if one of them escaped. That is just not likely, either. MOO.

 

[Patriot10]

Just throwing this out there-- but watching people and studying their movements, how they walk and how they interact with one another you can really get a feel on their personalities. Are they strong, assertive, physically fit? Are they Type-A personalities or Type-B personalities? To me.....Type-A's are fighters, aggressive, willing to stand up and fight. You can just tell by their posture and how they carry themselves in public. They walk with their shoulders back, chest out and look straight ahead and don't look away if challenged. They are always scanning and not absorbed in their cell phone, looking at the ground, etc with hunched shoulders.

I think this perp had seen Libby and Abby before. He studied them, watched them and knew they were inseparable and that he could control both of them if the right circumstances existed. He had a hunch neither would run if confronted and that he could control both with a weapon. I'm guessing they were also respectful, polite girls who respected authority and their elders. That would have also played in the perp's favor-- because most teens who are respectful and polite will defer automatically to an older person (adult). That gives the perp an added advantage to control them.

I think - MOO - that it's more logical to look at the possibility that one of the two could have gotten away as sheer speculation on our parts. That scenario was mentioned here in response to questions about how the perp controlled two girls at once. Speculation (here) was and is that he might have used a gun, threatening to kill one if the other didn't cooperate. It wouldn't mean that only one was targeted, just that only one could be shot at a time (in their minds).
So, given that the "run away" idea is just an idea and is surrounded by issues of power and control and consequences, we can speculate two things : A) one of them (either one) might have been able to make a run for it with a very dicey outcome (I would never be convinced that the gun wouldn't be fired at me no matter how hard I ran) and a friend left to die, or B) neither of them felt that escape was an option. We, as sleuthers, have no idea what really happened. There is no reason to assume that at any point the perp didn't care if one of them escaped. That is just not likely, either. MOO.