IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Bemused]

When distance is provided from CS to bridge, what end of the bridge are they measuring from? The bridge itself is quite long- about 1/6 mile isn't it so that would make a difference?

The bridge only spans a small portion directly over that creek but I don't know how wide the creek is on average a mile up or downstream from the bridge. The girls were found upstream.

 

[Eileen730]

But you can match up where he is in the photo and it's the south side , even when I watch the videos from Julie Melvin who I think is related to one of the family's shows where Libby was when she took the photo.

He could have been the south end she could have been on. North. Right?

 

[Angelcat13]

Thank you. I didn't find him, but it was a difficult time for my family. He was a great man who made us all laugh constantly!

Back on topic. Sorry!

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So very sad. So sorry you and your family for your loss.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Thanks for everyone's patience and help while I try to visualize what happened. How am I doing?

View attachment 114549

When you have it all figured out, let us know
Eta some think the abduction was from north end and along north bank of creek. I think they could have walked back to north end and along north bank and met someone either prearranged or by chance at the cemetery side of creek. So several possibilities.

 

[Yvettea]

In the helicopter footage where searchers are in the river, at some places they are only ankle deep. If the suspect is wearing boots and if he knew where to cross the river, he did not get wet

How did he know where to cross the creek? He's out there in the open trying to control two girls and he's looking for a place to cross the creek where his feet won't get wet. Sounds like you're saying this was well planned.

 

[Bemused]

He could have been the south end she could have been on. North. Right?

No. He was walking SE towards them.

 

[WebSight]

He could have been the south end she could have been on. North. Right?

When Libby took the video from which the photos of BG were taken, she was further south than he was, possibly off the bridge altogether.

 

[Bemused]

How did he know where to cross the creek? He's out there in the open trying to control two girls and he's looking for a place to cross the creek where his feet won't get wet. Sounds like you're saying this was well planned.

A stranger either got extraordinarily lucky or he is a local who's quite familiar with the creek and where to cross it, IMO. I know which my choice is.

 

[asyousay]

He could have been the south end she could have been on. North. Right?

No as he was walking towards southwards and she was in front of him so she is further south than him.

 

[Yvettea]

A stranger either got extraordinarily lucky or he is a local who's quite familiar with the creek and where to cross it, IMO. I know which my choice is.

So you don't think a car was involved?

ETA: I can see your line of reasoning pretty clearly now.

 

[WebSight]

Choosing a day of death is highly unusual and would typically happen only if the exact day wasn't known. I have no doubt they passed on different days. The question is, why? Jmo

:yeahthat:

I agree and wonder the same.

 

[Jethro4WS]

If they were abducted on the SE end of the bridge and their bodies were found on the North side of the river, how did they get there?

In my opinion they were placed there sometime in the early morning hours of the 14th.

I say that because I believe that the area where the girls were found was searched at least once. It was said that a sister dropped them off and was to pick them back up. That sister is very familiar with the area. If she looked for the girls it is highly likely she would have walked one of the paths that heads East from the bridge (we have videos of going that way - one was posted the other day with the deer stand) that eventually ends up at the point above where the girls were found. This would be the path that heads down where RL was showing the media the crime scene (we see his dog in the one photo with the cameraman down near the crime scene tape). If it were still daylight and someone went down that path it would be hard not to see the girls. Especially since there would have been two bodies. One could argue you could miss one - but miss two? I doubt it.

Also, the Fire Fighters that we see out in the WLFI footage from the night of the search are out on the North side of the creek East of the bridge. Because it would be possible for the girls to have drowned or injured near the water and Delphi has a high water rescue team I expect that they would have went through the areas closest to the creek first. They very likely have trained there and are familiar with the area. Any of the other volunteers out that night would have walked the paths - and one of the paths leads you right to where the girls were found - because if you were looking for girls on the move in those woods it would be expected that the girls would also be walking the paths rather than tripping through the trees, underbrush, debris, ruts, and holes off the paths. And I don't see how you could miss two bodies given all that.

I could be wrong.

 

[Eileen730]

No as he was walking towards her so she was south

And we know this how?
Sorry to be a PiTB but .....what makes u all so they were south?

 

[Elle*Bee]

Choosing a day of death is highly unusual and would typically happen only if the exact day wasn't known. I have no doubt they passed on different days. The question is, why? Jmo

This has been discussed quite a bit in earlier threads. I wouldn't say 'highly unusual' although certainly not typical. Publishing an obituary is done usually by the funeral home and doesn't always require the coroner's report in hand. When my mother died, I called the funeral home to have her picked up and I typed my Mother's obituary and emailed it to the funeral home before her body arrived. It was published as I wrote it. (She had been ill and was expected at the funeral home...semi-prearranged.).

Another family I know had a son disappear for a couple of days and was ultimately found deceased (drug overdose) the day after after a younger sibling's birthday. The young man likely died on the sibling's 6th bday but the family listed date of death as date found in the obituary. Funeral home didn't care or object. I'm sure the coroner's death certificate is accurate but the obit and headstone was not. It was their way of separating a tragic event from a happy one. It happens. (I hope I'm remembering it correctly...I do know the decision was made to list the date found.)

Is it possible that the girls did die on two different days? Sure.

 

[Alexsea]

He could have been the south end she could have been on. North. Right?

I don't necessarily agree, but I appreciate your thoughts. Your logic is clear and well articulated and I pay attention to all your points. Just a personal thanks for presenting a viewpoint different from my own that makes me think outside my own box. Why we are here!

 

[Bemused]

So you don't think a car was involved?

I wouldn't go as far as saying there positively wasn't a vehicle used but, IMO, no. I do not believe the person who killed those two beautiful, vibrant girls got up that day, Feb 13, and decided to kill anyone. IMO. Unless LE makes a major statement to the contrary that makes me reexamine my opinion, I'm sticking with my theory.

 

[Jethro4WS]

The crime scene investigators would've noticed wet footwear and bottoms of the girls' pants as well as whatever footprints they could follow. If they crossed that creek LE will know. IMO

Absolutely LE should know. Never said that they didn't. Not once did the media ever ask if the girls were killed where they were found. I find that quite odd considering that the girls were found outside and they had been missing. Usually it is one of the first questions out of the media in such circumstances.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The bridge only spans a small portion directly over that creek but I don't know how wide the creek is on average a mile up or downstream from the bridge. The girls were found upstream.

The bridge spans the creek and continues over the land in total for about 800 feet . I am asking where the distance from bridge was measured from I.e north or south end. Are you saying it was measured upstream from the part of the bridge that crosses the creek?

 

[mtnlites]

Another point I will put badly. Small town girl, who grew up with creeks and small rivers. They were deep in spots and shallow in others. As teens, we crossed them on trails without bridges all the time if it was the shortest way to get where we wanted to go. Didn't think about "slippery rocks" or "this could be dangerous ". I can totally see the girls trying to get across the creek to get away, or being ordered across it. To me, moo, not a stretch.


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Not a stretch for me, either. I've crossed the creek on many occasions, just about every time I go hiking, in fact. Skipped across the big creek rocks, walked on tip toes to avoid getting my shoes all the way wet, taken my shoes off and rolled up my pant legs, etc. Even the cold temps wouldn't have deterred me from crossing. I've gotten my feet and ankles wet in winter on many occasions. Not a nice feeling, but not unusual.

 

[Bemused]

In my opinion they were placed there sometime in the early morning hours of the 14th.

I say that because I believe that the area where the girls were found was searched at least once. It was said that a sister dropped them off and was to pick them back up. That sister is very familiar with the area. If she looked for the girls it is highly likely she would have walked one of the paths that heads East from the bridge (we have videos of going that way - one was posted the other day with the deer stand) that eventually ends up at the point above where the girls were found. This would be the path that heads down where RL was showing the media the crime scene (we see his dog in the one photo with the cameraman down near the crime scene tape). If it were still daylight and someone went down that path it would be hard not to see the girls. Especially since there would have been two bodies. One could argue you could miss one - but miss two? I doubt it.

Also, the Fire Fighters that we see out in the WLFI footage from the night of the search are out on the North side of the creek East of the bridge. Because it would be possible for the girls to have drowned or injured near the water and Delphi has a high water rescue team I expect that they would have went through the areas closest to the creek first. They very likely have trained there and are familiar with the area. Any of the other volunteers out that night would have walked the paths - and one of the paths leads you right to where the girls were found - because if you were looking for girls on the move in those woods it would be expected that the girls would also be walking the paths rather than tripping through the trees, underbrush, debris, ruts, and holes off the paths. And I don't see how you could miss two bodies given all that.

I could be wrong.

I quoted an article upthread a few pages that said the searchers had 20-25 square miles to search. In the dark.