IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Justice101]

I know this goes again the grain of most learned thinking, but I still wonder if there is a chance BG doubled back and caught up with the girls on the north end of the bridge and this might possibly be the route of the abduction to where the bodies were found???

 

[theirmommy]

Anyone think there is a very small chance the bridge guy (BG) wore a disguise? I don't really think so. Due to his age, he's not very tech savvy and wasn't able to destroy the images from the victim's phone.

RSBB
Due to his age???? We don't know his age.
Also "Due to his age, he's not very tech savvy and wasn't able to destroy the images from the victim's phone" - my mother is 70 and probably more tech savvy than women half her age. She has an iPhone 7 and iWatch.
Unfortunately, I think your generalizing

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Mine, too. Since the initial immediate presence of FBI, the similarities between this case and the Iowa case(both publicized and what can be found through MSM digging into the areas and folks close to the girls), and the near silence from LE after the release of the audio clip. I am still open to the idea that RL could be the culprit, and, as I've said repeatedly, almost hope that is the case.

Yes, I think we view hanging as suspended high up and other presentations that go with that scenario, but that's not necessarily true.

One of the reasons I wonder if this is at least a possibility is the discussion that arose around searches (I don't know if it was ever confirmed or not)...a couple of posters said that there was no way the first searchers could have missed the girls in the location where they were found because of the grid and cross sections of the search where people would have literally walked right in or across the path of the bodies. There was then discussion of this as pointing to the girls not having been there initially and later moved there. I don't see the latter as a possibility simply because that's work and energy and depending on how they were killed, might have left blood/dragging or other evidence of where another scene was, and this doesn't seem to be the case based on what we know (which I realize is little). It would also be risky and at night would be time-intensive. So, it occurred to me that some sort of hanging scenario might have been the case.

I don't say this to simply speculate, because I really don't do much of that, at least not on forum. But given the demeanor and some of the remarks of LE that suggest this was a disturbing scene and some of the discussions on searchers possibly having not seen them hiding in plain sight so to speak, it occurred to me.

Whatever happened, my fear is this is a deeply disturbed individual who was out to do far more than spontaneously murder two girls who saw a drug deal or some other such activity. I watched the pressers again and there was something more sinister that compelled the attention of the FBI's director and the unlimited resources that are available to this case, than a po'd hunter, meth dealer, or 77 year old alcoholic probation violator. At least that's my take.

 

[asyousay]

There was a case in the U.K. and I can remember watching it a tv show on it and basically a family murdered , a mother , daughter and dog and yet surprisingly the other daughter survived. And the reason she actually lived was her injurys were so horrific that her body slowed right down gradually and that kept her alive until she was found.

Her father said it was ironic that because she was so badly hurt it actually saved her.


So maybe it's a case one of them held on for longer before dying and if that's the case then it would be heartbreaking the search was called off the night before.

 

[Elle*Bee]

Fair enough

But LE don't release a lot of stuff to protect the case but it doesn't make it any less true.


If a reporter who was at the crime scene said he saw clothes in the creek I have no reason to think they are lying.

I don't think the reporter was lying per se but "girls' clothes in the water" doesn't necessarily mean they belong to our girls. For that reason, I'm filing it under "Hmmmmm...".

Could be someone else's clothes that ended up there under non-nefarious means, or it could be relevant to this case. We simply don't know.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Their feet wouldn't still be wet the following day when the bodies were found.

The insides of their shoes - if the shoes were there - would still be wet. If no clothing whatsoever was present then there would be no way to tell based on if they were wet or not and it could only be determined if the creek were crossed if there were prints/tracks on the opposite bank and/or tracks or disrupted sands/mud in the creek itself. Ironically, no crime scene tape is seen either from the helicopter video from RTV6 nor the video taken from right next to the crime scene tape that looks across the creek, and makes a sweeping circle counter-clockwise back across the crime scene.

If there had been tracks/prints I expect those areas would have been taped off.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I wonder if LE checked out which tombstones had fresh flowers. Maybe the perp visited the cemetary on the day the girls were killed.

I wondered that. Also check headstones for date of deaths and births etc. It was a day before Valentines day too.

 

[Confusion]

<SNIP>..a couple of posters said that there was no way the first searchers could have missed the girls in the location where they were found because of the grid and cross sections of the search where people would have literally walked right in or across the path of the bodies. <SNIP>

Is there an official link to the info about the grid and cross sections of the search, or was that just assumptions by posters? TIA

 

[asyousay]

I don't think the reporter was lying per se but "girls' clothes in the water" doesn't necessarily mean they belong to our girls. For that reason, I'm filing it under "Hmmmmm...".

Could be someone else's clothes that ended up there under non-nefarious means, or it could be relevant to this case. We simply don't know.

That's true , I am not just prepared to totally disregard it out of hand though

 

[Bemused]

The bridge spans the creek and continues over the land in total for about 800 feet . I am asking where the distance from bridge was measured from I.e north or south end. Are you saying it was measured upstream from the part of the bridge that crosses the creek?

That's where I would measure from but I am not aware that LE ever revealed how they arrived at their calculations.

 

[LadyL]

also, I doubt getting his feet wet would've really mattered to him ... they dry off eventually or if they get ruined, they get thrown out which might have happened anyway to avoid being matched to any footprints at the crime scene

In the helicopter footage where searchers are in the river, at some places they are only ankle deep. If the suspect is wearing boots and if he knew where to cross the river, he did not get wet feet.

 

[Justice101]

I quoted an article upthread a few pages that said the searchers had 20-25 square miles to search. In the dark.

They didn't have enough man power to search 4.5 miles X 4.5 miles which is in that range for square miles.

 

[theirmommy]

Anyone think there is a very small chance the bridge guy (BG) wore a disguise? I don't really think so. Due to his age, he's not very tech savvy and wasn't able to destroy the images from the victim's phone. Also, he wasn't planning on letting the girls live to describe him. I don't think he had the foresight to consider the girls would have gotten video or still photos of him before the attack or even during.

RSBB
Due to his age???? We don't know his age.
Also "Due to his age, he's not very tech savvy and wasn't able to destroy the images from the victim's phone" - my mother is in her 70's and probably more tech savvy than women half her age. She has an iPhone 7 and iWatch.
Unfortunately, I think your generalizing

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I've heard both 1/2 and 3/4 stated as distance, and I think someone clarified on here(?) that the CS is actually ~1/2 mile from the north end of the bridge, where the trail ends or leads onto the bridge, iirc.

I have read that the girls were "3/4 of a mile from the bridge". That can't be right because the distance from the bridge to the far East end of the property is .5 miles.

These maps are of the property and the distance from the bridge to the farthest end of the property.

http://maps.indiana.edu/index.html

 

[Bird of Paradise]

There are several newer articles that state RL isn't a suspect. (Sgt Kim Riley on RL's court day)

Do you still think RL is BG?

On another note, Bemused....You are amazing with finding older links and videos on this case! Whenever someone needs something, (morning, noon or night)--there you are with the info. I think that's awesome.

I hope you find time in there somewhere to sleep. :bedtime:

Bemused, from what transpired at the probation hearing, it seems LE is not considering him more of a supsect. Do you think LE would have showed their hand more if they thought he was?

 

[Shiressleuth]

The insides of their shoes - if the shoes were there - would still be wet. If no clothing whatsoever was present then there would be no way to tell based on if they were wet or not and it could only be determined if the creek were crossed if there were prints/tracks on the opposite bank and/or tracks or disrupted sands/mud in the creek itself. Ironically, no crime scene tape is seen either from the helicopter video from RTV6 nor the video taken from right next to the crime scene tape that looks across the creek, and makes a sweeping circle counter-clockwise back across the crime scene.

If there had been tracks/prints I expect those areas would have been taped off.

Even if they were dry ( shoes/clothes/hair etc) forensics woukd know if they had been in the water or not. There would be mud on the girls too if they had been in the creek, dry or not IMO.

 

[Bemused]

They didn't have enough man power to search 4.5 miles X 4.5 miles which is in that range for square miles.

I think, based on my assumptions, they started looking back on the north end where the girls were dropped and due to be picked up. I have no idea how far SE they searched on the first night. That article I referred to said the searchers were in teams, a drone and DNR(?) personnel were used the first night.

 

[Jethro4WS]

even if they were dry they could do forensics on their pants or shoes to determine if they had been in the creek.

Or forensics on their bodies. Either way there should have been the presence of freshwater biota (dead or alive).

Edited to Add: That is, if they had been in or come in contact with the creek.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

RSBB
Due to his age???? We don't know his age.
Also "Due to his age, he's not very tech savvy and wasn't able to destroy the images from the victim's phone" - my mother is in her 70's and probably more tech savvy than women half her age. She has an iPhone 7 and iWatch.
Unfortunately, I think your generalizing

I hate to keep bringing this up but there is also the possibility HE wanted it recorded.

 

[jillycat]

Is there an official link to the info about the grid and cross sections of the search, or was that just assumptions by posters? TIA

This was discussed here several threads back and as I said, I don't know if it was ever confirmed or not. My point was that if searchers were right there and the girls were also there all along, today's reference to searcher's not looking upward might have some relevance. I have no idea if that's what happened or if we know for sure whether or not there was a grid search, or even a crossing over of the spot where they were. From what I gather, the media didn't even get the location right and I don't think there's any official x marks the spot of any search or body location. There have been shots of an area and references to how far from the water as I understand it.