IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[skibaboo]

[video=twitter;832294869016178689]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/832294869016178689[/video]

The SE end of the bridge seen from the crime scene. Any further east you wouldn't see the bridge. MOO

HTH

 

[NightOwl77]

I think the condition of the ground could've been preserved if the girls were killed in the water, which would wash away some signs of struggle, and then hidden.

That only makes sense if we find out their bodies were wet though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And if SA didn't occur. There would be struggle with that I think, thrashing about and leaves dug into etc..
And in the water would be too cold for that to occur as location of SA... ?

 

[skibaboo]

The chopper footage. This gives you the best view of the crime scene and surroundings IMO


RTV6 (WRTV - Indianapolis) was live.
February 14 ·

 

[NightOwl77]

Yes. Every Search Warrant requires an Affidavit of Probable Cause. You can't get a search warrant without one.

12 with Probable Cause. Wow... Interesting.

 

[Shiressleuth]

That would be the exact location that is marked on MSM maps as well, but there seems to be a consensus that the MSM maps are wrong.

So RL thought the location of the bodies found were where MSM had them ? That could explain where MSM got that wrong info from. So RL did not know the exact location - is that right?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I was watching Julie Melvin's video again; this is the first time I've noticed this trail coming down the hill. At first I thought it was an atv trail but now I'm thinking it looks too narrow.

Is anyone curious about the red barn that her hubby first points out and then she shows us the pic of it? Does it have significance?

https://youtu.be/NJopmUgnMAc

 

[Deleted member 155000]

And if SA didn't occur. There would be struggle with that I think, thrashing about and leaves dug into etc..
And in the water would be too cold for that to occur as location of SA... ?

I am not leaning toward SA, but if it did occur, I would guess the water would help make DNA harder to retrieve after the fact.

The amount of struggle would depend on the weapon and the amount of control he was able to maintain over them. If he threatened to kill one if either screamed, it might not have been a loud, long struggle.

I have no doubt I would fight with all I had to survive in that scenario. But I also know that, realistically, when I have gotten into water or snowball fights etc with--say--my brother or husband, it becomes obvious to me how quickly they can overpower me.

I hope they fought though. I hope to God they fought and clawed and screamed and left more evidence to turn up soon.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NightOwl77]

Other reasons:

Rage.
Revenge.
Psychological condition/breakdown.
Accident then cover up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could see the psychological or rage if he knew them or of them. Maybe jealousy if one had a boyfriend and this person was fixated on one of them. Rage if previous offender and POed at LE constraints on person's life.
Maybe those factors could contribute to the amount of risk that was taken as well.

Still think they were taken off site though and that's what doesn't jive w either of those as well in a quick kill...
The risk of being heard and foot traffic on the bridge even that day is what sticks in my mind per the Heavy link I posted earlier in indicating a not so random event. You'd think this person would have already evaluated that risk beforehand.

 

[asyousay]

Rage, revenge, psychological breakdown, and accidents were just possible reasons, besides assault, that a man might kill two girls.

Rage could be set off by thousands of things, depending on the perp's mental state and sensitivities/pet peeves. Some examples: kids taking his photo and invading privacy, kids perceived as mouthy, kids perceived as trespassing or otherwise disrespectful.

If the person was under the influence, mentally unstable, suffered from PTSD and so on, they could've overreacted in a way that caused the death of one or both girls and then covered it up.

How do you know the perp didn't know the girls? Police haven't released many details about whether the person may have been interacting with them on social media or known their families that I am aware of.

I lean toward a local perp and a quick crime here, but I don't have a favorite theory about why. It could've been sexual assault for sure. But I keep all the possibilities on the table until LE or emerging evidence eliminates them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My theory on them not knowing him is as simple as Libby being so freaked out by him she took a photo of him.

I see no reason why Libby would of been so alarmed if she knew the person.

 

[otto]

Rage, revenge, psychological breakdown, and accidents were just possible reasons, besides assault, that a man might kill two girls.

Rage could be set off by thousands of things, depending on the perp's mental state and sensitivities/pet peeves. Some examples: kids taking his photo and invading privacy, kids perceived as mouthy, kids perceived as trespassing or otherwise disrespectful.

If the person was under the influence, mentally unstable, suffered from PTSD and so on, they could've overreacted in a way that caused the death of one or both girls and then covered it up.

How do you know the perp didn't know the girls? Police haven't released many details about whether the person may have been interacting with them on social media or known their families that I am aware of.

I lean toward a local perp and a quick crime here, but I don't have a favorite theory about why. It could've been sexual assault for sure. But I keep all the possibilities on the table until LE or emerging evidence eliminates them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If mental disturbance is the reason that the suspect murdered the children, why did he take them to a secluded location? He could simply throw them off the bridge.

 

[Ember123]

Hey Sleuthers! How do I get to the Scanners thread on this Delphi case??? I saw a link at one point but can't find it now. Obsessed with this case and want to see an arrest soon! *** How to get to Scanner thread, please??? *** Ember

 

[expatCanada]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-and-Abigail-Williams-Scanner-Thread

Hey Sleuthers! How do I get to the Scanners thread on this Delphi case??? I saw a link at one point but can't find it now. Obsessed with this case and want to see an arrest soon! *** How to get to Scanner thread, please??? *** Ember

 

[jca91180]

Hey Sleuthers! How do I get to the Scanners thread on this Delphi case??? I saw a link at one point but can't find it now. Obsessed with this case and want to see an arrest soon! *** How to get to Scanner thread, please??? *** Ember

On the home page of websleuths I just type "scanner feed" into the search bar and it comes up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 155000]

My theory on them not knowing him is as simple as Libby being so freaked out by him she took a photo of him.

I see no reason why Libby would of been so alarmed if she knew the person.

That could totally be the case. But I think it could go either way. We can't assume if they knew him that they were also friendly toward him. They could've known him as a troublemaker or a guy they were told to stay away from or a guy who lingered around school events. They could've taken the pic bc what they DID know about him scared them.

I can certainly think of a few people in my town who I would NOT want to meet up with in the woods, whose presence would immediately put me on alert.

Again, I don't know which it is. They may have known him, they may not have. I just don't feel like we know much to guess on unless we hear the rest of the video (and even then, there might not be additional clues).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bemused]

My theory on them not knowing him is as simple as Libby being so freaked out by him she took a photo of him.

I see no reason why Libby would of been so alarmed if she knew the person.

Unless he'd previously confronted them or friends of theirs, IMO.

I gave an old lady wide berth because she was prone to screaming at me and my siblings for being on a public sidewalk in front of her home. When we grew up our mother told us she was an alcoholic and a recluse, basically, but she'd get tanked up and rant at anyone she perceived did something she found offensive.

 

[NightOwl77]

[video=twitter;832294869016178689]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/832294869016178689[/video]

The SE end of the bridge seen from the crime scene. Any further east you wouldn't see the bridge. MOO

HTH

Thank you so much! This confirms how close it was, the line of sight and probable sound travel. You really can see the bridge from there. Wow.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

If mental disturbance is the reason that the suspect murdered the children, why did he take them to a secluded location? He could simply throw them off the bridge.

We don't know that he didn't, do we? He could've knocked one off the bridge and when the other went "down the hill" to help her...disposed of the witness.

He could've taken them out of public view because he knew killing them would take a minute and didn't want to be seen doing so.

He could've taken them out of public view to yell at them or scare them and somehow the situation escalated into him killing them.

He could've used a stun gun on the trail and then drug their bodies down there out of sight.

We could imagine many scenarios.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Burnt Toast]

So you are guessing without sexual assault? I don't see this being just a murder. Why put yourself in that great of risk for just a murder? And of two random girls? Doesn't add up for me. JMO.

i don't think the killer woke up that day and decided he was going to murder two young girls. It is something that just happened and likely escalated quickly. In my opinion time was of the essence and there was NO time for a SA. They needed to get home so they could begin putting together a alibi.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

My theory on them not knowing him is as simple as Libby being so freaked out by him she took a photo of him.

I see no reason why Libby would of been so alarmed if she knew the person.

RL said he knew both families. Does anyone know if he attended the viewings or services for the girls?

 

[Shiressleuth]

There is a 200 feet difference. Perhaps the person who did the first map assumed that the private property started on the East side of the cemetery, perhaps the location is 200 feet East. I don't know. I placed the body location where the terrain would offer seclusion and privacy and direct access to a vehicle parked at the cemetery. I can move it easily enough, but 200 feet right or left doesn't make too much difference.

It might make a difference if it ended up on someone elses property. From memory of looking at the property maps, this piece of RL's land is only a 2 acre section directly south of the cemetery so it is quite small. An acre is about 200 ft x 200ft only so this piece could be only 400ft x 200ft. Perhaps someone could check my figures here, just to be sure.