IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Eileen730]

If not drugs it was some other type of criminal activity.
IMO something big enough to kill over.
Robbery
Weapons
He was out there with a gun that day and I think Abby and Liberty interrupted
Something.

Jmo

 

[jillycat]

Just thoughts, but if he strangled them there'd be very little DNA evidence. It would also mean a relatively clean crime scene.

And I think there was a sexual component. He may not be a pedophile or hebephile but sex and power/control often go hand in hand.

I hate to bring that up.

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Yes, and Jessica Ridgeway's killer initially tried to abduct an adult female but she fought him off, so his next victim was a child because she was easier to catch and control. This person may not necessarily be hunting children as much as he's hunting the most vulnerable victim he can find in an environment that works in his favor.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

One thing I wanted to address is that folks seem adamant that the girls couldn't have been shot due to the noise and potential for someone hearing it. In rural Indiana, on any given day, but especially early spring-like warm days, it isn't uncommon at all for folks to target shoot, get the clay pigeon thrower out, or take a shot(or several) at groundhogs or the random coyote crossing a field. A couple gunshots would have gone relatively unnoticed, even by folks on the trail. Contrary to some theories. trees and heavy leaf coverage on the ground do break up sound. IOW, someone may be shooting at a distance of only 50-100 yds away, and you would definitely hear it, but it becomes more difficult to tell at what distance and what direction, the shots are coming from. I won't go down the suppressor and/or subsonic ammo rabbithole, but those are also possibilities.

 

[Krwiley60]

going to lafayette was not part of the probation violation so there would be no court records of his "alibi".

He was not allowed to drive anywhere. Period. That is a violation of his probation if he drove there. Whatever is said in court on his behalf should be in the docket. My question was, since we all know about the transfer station, do we really know if he went to Lafayette or was that a lie?


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[Bemused]

He was not allowed to drive anywhere. Period. That is a violation of his probation if he drove there. Whatever is said in court on his behalf should be in the docket. My question was, since we all know about the transfer station, do we really know if he went to Lafayette or was that a lie?


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Burnt toast is correct because it was never mentioned in the PV he was charged for.

http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/

 

[MistyWaters]

The reason why you have never read about the area being searched previously is because the media NEVER asked that question. Not once. Nor did they ask whether the girls were murdered where they were found or if they were dumped there. Not once. And both of those questions are usually asked when bodies are discovered in wooded areas. There are no reports in the media that say that the area where the girls were ultimately found was not searched the day before either. So there is nothing in the media that says whether or not the area was previously searched because they didn't ask and LE didn't volunteer that information either. The question that one should be asking themselves is just why that is the case.

One reason the question about a prior search was not asked, perhaps -
Searches on the 13th were not organized or documented because they were looking for two lost or accidentally injured girls who were expected to be found alive..

Therefore it will never be known what specific locations were searched on that day therefore no point in media asking the question.


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[NightOwl77]

SK Israel Keyes used zipties to bind both the Curriers, drove them to an abandoned house, etc.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2012/12/missing_vermont_couple_fought.html

BTW: Keyes is dead, but he didn't know one person that he killed he stalked parks, trailheads, etc. too.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/a...istance-in-case-of-serial-killer-israel-keyes

In sounds like in this case he woke them up so they probably were easier to zip tie (confused etc), though she fought and tried to escape.

So he SA the wife (and others), planned meticulously his murders, and made sure he wouldn't get caught by disposing of body in ways it would not be identifiable. Even this guy had foresight. Libby and Abby's killer did not appear to have much foresight or wanted his victims found, which says a lot.

 

[Wsimm]

Not sure, but you just reminded me of something. This is how everyone should know that BG is not RL. BG is LE's "main suspect". (not RL)
http://wane.com/2017/02/19/police-man-in-photos-now-main-suspect-in-2-girls-deaths/





Does anyone really think that LE had not talked to RL by this point? (Article was Feb 19th)

Do we have an article or media piece that states RL contacted LE or are we back to square one where a searcher requested to search RL's property at around 6:30pm the night before the bodies were located? At this point I'm guessing LE did the contacting?

 

[Bemused]

Do we have an article or media piece that states RL contacted LE or are we back to square one where a searcher requested to search RL's property at around 6:30pm the night before the bodies were located? At this point I'm guessing LE did the contacting?

LE never said RL is or isn't BG. Some people seem to be assuming things as facts due to what LE isn't saying. We will know who BG is, whether that's RL or not, as soon as LE makes that announcement.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo a drug dealer who would murder two young girls would be likely on LE's radar and they would know where to look for him. Also when drug dealers DO kill, they tend to shoot and run, leaving the bodies where they are, like with drive-bys. Anyway, I feel 99% certain this was a sex assault...1% aimed at one of the girls. Jmo

 

[Wsimm]

going to lafayette was not part of the probation violation so there would be no court records of his "alibi".

I believe RL did take a plea deal in regards to the transfer station and pizza restaurant? I did find it curious that no deal was mentioned in relation to Lafayette and fish shopping? Any thoughts on this? Did he have a driver that day? If he did who?

 

[NightOwl77]

Zodiac. Lake bareyessa.

These two were tied up with clothesline by the murderer. They didn't tie each other up. That's what I'm really questioning here.... It seems that would be pretty hard (a tied up person trying to tie up another, even w zipties)
It even says here that the husband thought about going for the gun, and so there would be time in the midst to get the gun etc. It sounds like a matter of compliance. When the chance is there, not complying can possibly save a life.

 

[Krwiley60]

Burnt toast is correct because it was never mentioned in the PV he was charged for.

http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/

Ok. I get that. Since the "Lafayette" trip was not mentioned in the PV, as it should have been if he was sticking to that story also, where was he after the trip to the TS that he didn't get home until 6:30 that evening.


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[NightOwl77]

Thank you. I thought I remembered Zodiac making the woman tie up the male victim.

Yea, it does say she tied up him... I missed it the first time I read it, but the murderer did tie up the woman. What doesn't seem plausible is someone holding a gun on two people who tie up each other. If he has to tie up one of them, he still has to put the gun down. At least that's how it appears to me. Maybe that is why he had her tie up the man first, expecting her to be more compliant.

 

[Ghosthunter]

These two were tied up with clothesline by the murderer. They didn't tie each other up. That's what I'm really questioning here.... It seems that would be pretty hard (a tied up person trying to tie up another, even w zipties)
It even says here that the husband thought about going for the gun, and so there would be time in the midst to get the gun etc. It sounds like a matter of compliance. When the chance is there, not complying can possibly save a life.

According to wikipedia and the book by Robert Graysmith zodiac instructed shepherd to tie up Hartnell.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Ok. I get that. Since the "Lafayette" trip was not mentioned in the PV, as it should have been if he was sticking to that story also, where was he after the trip to the TS that he didn't get home until 6:30 that evening.

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there is nothing that says he was gone the entire day after leaving the Transfer Station.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I believe RL did take a plea deal in regards to the transfer station and pizza restaurant? I did find it curious that no deal was mentioned in relation to Lafayette and fish shopping? Any thoughts on this? Did he have a driver that day? If he did who?

if we did know the driver we would not be able to sleuth them.

 

[Bemused]

Ok. I get that. Since the "Lafayette" trip was not mentioned in the PV, as it should have been if he was sticking to that story also, where was he after the trip to the TS that he didn't get home until 6:30 that evening.


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That's the $64,000 question. Where was he from 1 PM 2/13 until the 6:30 PM he claimed to the media? We have had no substantiation from LE on those hours that I am aware of.

 

[Bemused]

if we did know the driver we would not be able to sleuth them.

True, but it's the job of the LEOs to do so and I'm sure they've left no stone unturned on anyone.

 

[Jethro4WS]

One reason the question about a prior search was not asked, perhaps -
Searches on the 13th were not organized or documented because they were looking for two lost or accidentally injured girls who were expected to be found alive..

Therefore it will never be known what specific locations were searched on that day therefore no point in media asking the question.


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There were organized searches the night of the 13th. The second post on the scanner thread for case has some of it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliams-Scanner-Thread&p=13258687#post13258687