IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Burnt Toast]

I don't think two men would go to a rural park to make a drug deal, and I don't think two teenagers who witness such a small drug deal (that it happens in a park) would know what they were seeing.

while i do not think any kind of drug deal occurred i can't image a grown man/men caring about being seen by two middle school girls.

 

[Bemused]

Yes, a practical obligation and a legal requirement are different. As I said, warning the public or confirming a danger is different than giving up information about an ongoing investigation. I'm referring to the post concerning community members being upset over the police remarks and lack of clarity about danger to others.

I can't imagine that anyone believes it's correct under any circumstances to give out investigative information that compromises catching and prosecuting this person.

Understood, and I probably would feel the same way they do if it was my community. LE isn't infallible, but I personally feel they knew no one else was in danger. I hope the arrest comes soon so people can stop worrying and so we'll know someone is held accountable for murdering two young girls. Whatever his defense, it won't be good enough for me.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

while i do not think any kind of drug deal occurred i can't image a grown man/men caring about being seen by two middle school girls.

What about being seen by their video cameras?


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[NightOwl77]

I have never read that the bodies were found in a location that was previously searched. As you point out, searchers were looking for two live, missing girls between 3:30 and 5:00 with the assumption that they either lost track of time, or got lost. I can't see anyone searching in an area that would be difficult to access from the bridge or without crossing the creek. Fortunately there were footprints leading to the missing children, or they would very likely still be there.

I read that the family and some other folks were actually searching till almost midnight. It was going down to 23, there was a full moon that night and people were scared of them getting hypothermia, and the phone had stopped pinging from what I remember as well... I know if it was my kids I'd be searching till someone told me I had to leave w/temps of that kind.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I have never read that the bodies were found in a location that was previously searched. As you point out, searchers were looking for two live, missing girls between 3:30 and 5:00 with the assumption that they either lost track of time, or got lost. I can't see anyone searching in an area that would be difficult to access from the bridge or without crossing the creek. Fortunately there were footprints leading to the missing children, or they would very likely still be there.

The reason why you have never read about the area being searched previously is because the media NEVER asked that question. Not once. Nor did they ask whether the girls were murdered where they were found or if they were dumped there. Not once. And both of those questions are usually asked when bodies are discovered in wooded areas. There are no reports in the media that say that the area where the girls were ultimately found was not searched the day before either. So there is nothing in the media that says whether or not the area was previously searched because they didn't ask and LE didn't volunteer that information either. The question that one should be asking themselves is just why that is the case.

 

[Bemused]

The reason why you have never read about the area being searched previously is because the media NEVER asked that question. Not once. Nor did they ask whether the girls were murdered where they were found or if they were dumped there. Not once. And both of those questions are usually asked when bodies are discovered in wooded areas. There are no reports in the media that say that the area where the girls were ultimately found was not searched the day before either. So there is nothing in the media that says whether or not the area was previously searched because they didn't ask and LE didn't volunteer that information either. The question that one should be asking themselves is just why that is the case.

LE privately asked them not to ask those questions? The media and LE need each other so if LE asked them not to ask they'd probably oblige in a murder case of two young girls. MOO

 

[AlphaWolf]

My opinions only!

If RL had something to do with the murders......IMO he used his Truck ( to dispose of evidence/murder weapon) and LE will be able to get a DNA sample from the vehicle.

 

[Yvettea]

MOO, a teen hangout spot like seems risky for anyone worried about being seen.
I my opinion, this location seems like a lot of nature/history hikes, you might not see someone for two hours, and then again see 6 or more people in half an hour. It seems regularly visited, not desolate.

However the parking area at the N300W entrance apparently was a problem according to owners who just closed it a few days ago (it was on their property,) "doing things at all hours" is what I think they said as their reason.

Where is that entrance on N300W? I'd like to locate it on a map.

 

[anthym29]

I thought the BTK guy had forced a victim to restrain another? IIRC?

Yes I believe he did and so did EARS/ONS.

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[NightOwl77]

zipties

He'd still have to zip tie one of them because they really can't zip tie the other person with their arms zip tied already, and how can you hold a gun at the same time on the person or on the person you are zip tieing, especially one as large as the one that looked like was in his pocket? And even if you are zip tied you can make a good amount of noise and the bridge was pretty visible right through the trees from the CS. I'm still not convinced on this being doable. I mean if he is going to the trouble of zip tieing you, you know you are up **it creek. So your compliance is not going to be as readily available at that point I would think. I would think w what Libby did on the bridge w audio and video that she would have been resistant and Abby in seeing her fear would have been as well. I'd rather be shot and take my chances on surviving because someone heard it and my struggling/muffled screaming. Put your hand over your mouth tight and scream. It's still pretty audible.

 

[Bemused]

Where is that entrance on N300W? I'd like to locate it on a map.

Are you talking about the Mary I Gerard entrance? I saw a sign in one of those videos someone walked, maybe the JM one.

http://nicheslandtrust.org/index.php/portfolio/gerard/

 

[Burnt Toast]

What about being seen by their video cameras?


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then you would take their phone, not kill them.

 

[anthym29]

Just thoughts, but if he strangled them there'd be very little DNA evidence. It would also mean a relatively clean crime scene.

And I think there was a sexual component. He may not be a pedophile or hebephile but sex and power/control often go hand in hand.

I hate to bring that up.

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[Ghosthunter]

He'd still have to zip tie one of them because they really can't zip tie the other person with their arms zip tied already, and how can you hold a gun at the same time on the person or on the person you are zip tieing, especially one as large as the one that looked like was in his pocket? And even if you are zip tied you can make a good amount of noise and the bridge was pretty visible right through the trees from the CS. I'm still not convinced on this being doable. I mean if he is going to the trouble of zip tieing you, you know you are up **it creek. So your compliance is not going to be as readily available at that point I would think. I would think w what Libby did on the bridge w audio and video that she would have been resistant and Abby in seeing her fear would have been as well. I'd rather be shot and take my chances on surviving because someone heard it and my struggling/muffled screaming. Put your hand over your mouth tight and scream. It's still pretty audible.

If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound if no one is there to hear it?

 

[Eileen730]

then you would take their phone, not kill them.

Drug dealers kill.
They have no morals.
They don't leave witnesses.

Esp if they don't want to go back to jail.

 

[Eileen730]

then you would take their phone, not kill them.

Sorry that makes no sense to me.
They can still identify him.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1

Click on each plot.

Approximately 4.5 acres, one parcel that belongs to the property owner.

View attachment 114610

Otto, if you look on this link that ex pat has provided, that plot is listed as only 2 acres as I had remembered so 200ft could be significant.
(TY for posting this ex pat)

 

[TheVisual]

I go with this as well as it's the most logical , two pretty young girls out by themselves and he saw his chance and took it.

He did it because he thinks he can and he did. He is a hunter.

 

[jillycat]

He'd still have to zip tie one of them because they really can't zip tie the other person with their arms zip tied already, and how can you hold a gun at the same time on the person or on the person you are zip tieing, especially one as large as the one that looked like was in his pocket? And even if you are zip tied you can make a good amount of noise and the bridge was pretty visible right through the trees from the CS. I'm still not convinced on this being doable. I mean if he is going to the trouble of zip tieing you, you know you are up **it creek. So your compliance is not going to be as readily available at that point I would think. I would think w what Libby did on the bridge w audio and video that she would have been resistant and Abby in seeing her fear would have been as well. I'd rather be shot and take my chances on surviving because someone heard it and my struggling/muffled screaming. Put your hand over your mouth tight and scream. It's still pretty audible.

I think we have to keep in mind that after Libby got the video, things likely escalated very quickly and the presence of mind that Libby had initially was not likely to have been the case as the crime unfolded. Plus, they were both still children. I can only imagine the level of terror they felt in what was probably a very fluid situation, and I doubt that they would have perceived themselves in a position of trying to take control or run away, particularly if either was threatened with causing the death of the other upon any attempt to run or refusal to obey.

From what I heard in that audio, he was not taking No for an answer.

 

[Jethro4WS]

And yet a Judge signed off on a probable cause search warrant for his home and property March 17th from information supplied to him by the FBI.

Is there an article or statement by LE that says the FBI had anything to do with preparing the warrant? Carroll County Sheriff's Department is in charge of the investigation.