IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

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Mainemom76 said:
IMO this has nothing to do with rage. This was a planned, targeted murder. This is someone who is known to one of the girls family members. This is NOT random. This is not about trespassing. JMO
Click to expand...

Most think it is random.
 
Many, many years ago when I was just a budding sleuth I became interested in a case that was being covered on national news networks about eight young nurses being murdered by one man, in the same house. It amazed people and law enforcement at that time at how he controlled that many women at one time. One woman survived by falling behind the bed and hiding there. Richard Speck had lost count of how many women were in the house and did not look for her. He tortured, raped and killed eight women. None of them fought back. Again, there were eight of them. I can fully understand how a man can control and kill the two young girls in this case.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/a-mass-murderer-leaves-eight-women-dead
 
NightOwl77 said:
Yea, it does say she tied up him... I missed it the first time I read it, but the murderer did tie up the woman. What doesn't seem plausible is someone holding a gun on two people who tie up each other. If he has to tie up one of them, he still has to put the gun down. At least that's how it appears to me. Maybe that is why he had her tie up the man first, expecting her to be more compliant.
Click to expand...

Yes, in the cases I've read about the weaker victim was the one forced to restrain the stronger. moo
 
So frustrating this case has gone so many weeks without any sort of lead. It does make me think the girls were the targets of a drifter, who only took notice of them because they came across his crosshairs. If not that, then what? There is no evidence any ex-friends had any problem with them. The parents/guardians all seem loving and worried.
 
Note: Numerous posts have been removed that violated WS social media rules. Also, please remember that Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Unless or until law enforcement declares someone a suspect or person of interest, their social media is off limits.

Not Allowed

Social media pages that fall in the following categories are OFF LIMITS.

Family members of either a victim or a suspect
Friends of either a victim or a suspect
Most any other individual

Don't link to these pages, nor make reference to information you find on them.
Click to expand...
The Rules can be found here. If you have any questions, please contact any member of WS staff. Thanks in advance for your anticipated cooperation.
 
expatCanada said:
Otto is using a different map that the one I supplied. I supplied the Carroll County property appraisal district map for taxes paid each year per the amount of land/home you own.

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1

Just click on each parcel to see how big the area is and who owns it.
Click to expand...

I was using this map:

Indiana Geographic Information Council
777 Indiana Ave, Suite 210, Indianapolis, IN 46202
phone: 317.504.4389 | email: info@indianamap.org
Designed by Michael Daniels and the Indiana Geological Survey

http://www.indianamap.org
 
Please delete if this has already been posted.

Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports filed

Filed By:
State of Indiana


File Stamp:
03/28/2017

Order Issued

On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. 2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public. The Court, being duly advised, ORDERS as follows: State of Indiana has demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that public access or dissemination of the information contained in Ind. Code 36-2-14-18(a) would create significant risks of harm to the criminal investigation of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German. State of Indiana's Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports, filed March 28, 2017, is GRANTED. The Court ORDERS the Carroll County Coroner to PROHIBIT public inspection and copying the following information related to Ms. Abigail Williams or Ms. Liberty German: 1) The name, age, address, sex, and race of the deceased. 2) The address where the dead body was found, or if there is no address the location where the dead body was found and, if different, the address where the death occurred, or if there is no address the location where the death occurred. 3) The name of the agency to which the death was reported and the name of the person reporting the death. 4) The name of any public official or governmental employee present at the scene of the death and the name of the person certifying or pronouncing the death. 5) Information regarding an autopsy (requested or performed) limited to the date, the person who performed the autopsy, where the autopsy was performed, and a conclusion as to: a. the probable cause of death; b. the probable manner of death; and c. the probable mechanism of death. 6) The location to which the body was removed, the person determining the location to which the body was removed, and the authority under which the decision to remove the body was made. 7) The records required to be filed by a coroner under section 6 [IC 36-2-14-6] of this chapter and the verdict and the written report required under section 10 [IC 36-2-14-10] of this chapter. (Collectively the confidential autopsy information ) The confidential autopsy information shall remain confidential until further order of this Court. The Court shall enter further order if the Prosecuting Attorney notifies the Court that the investigation has concluded. The Court shall enter further order if any person demonstrates that access to the confidential autopsy information would not create a significant risk to the criminal investigation of the deaths, AND the public interest will be served by allowing access to the confidential autopsy information, per form. (Copy to State, Coroner 3/28/2017,HNC)

Judicial Officer:
Diener, Benjamin A.


Order Signed:
03/28/2017
 
<mod snip>

I, myself, feel very strongly for the families and understand this case may be solved after many years, and may never be solved at all. :(
 
Beer said:
Please delete if this has already been posted.

Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports filed

Filed By:
State of Indiana


File Stamp:
03/28/2017

Order Issued

On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. 2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public. The Court, being duly advised, ORDERS as follows: State of Indiana has demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that public access or dissemination of the information contained in Ind. Code 36-2-14-18(a) would create significant risks of harm to the criminal investigation of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German. State of Indiana's Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports, filed March 28, 2017, is GRANTED. The Court ORDERS the Carroll County Coroner to PROHIBIT public inspection and copying the following information related to Ms. Abigail Williams or Ms. Liberty German: 1) The name, age, address, sex, and race of the deceased. 2) The address where the dead body was found, or if there is no address the location where the dead body was found and, if different, the address where the death occurred, or if there is no address the location where the death occurred. 3) The name of the agency to which the death was reported and the name of the person reporting the death. 4) The name of any public official or governmental employee present at the scene of the death and the name of the person certifying or pronouncing the death. 5) Information regarding an autopsy (requested or performed) limited to the date, the person who performed the autopsy, where the autopsy was performed, and a conclusion as to: a. the probable cause of death; b. the probable manner of death; and c. the probable mechanism of death. 6) The location to which the body was removed, the person determining the location to which the body was removed, and the authority under which the decision to remove the body was made. 7) The records required to be filed by a coroner under section 6 [IC 36-2-14-6] of this chapter and the verdict and the written report required under section 10 [IC 36-2-14-10] of this chapter. (Collectively the confidential autopsy information ) The confidential autopsy information shall remain confidential until further order of this Court. The Court shall enter further order if the Prosecuting Attorney notifies the Court that the investigation has concluded. The Court shall enter further order if any person demonstrates that access to the confidential autopsy information would not create a significant risk to the criminal investigation of the deaths, AND the public interest will be served by allowing access to the confidential autopsy information, per form. (Copy to State, Coroner 3/28/2017,HNC)

Judicial Officer:
Diener, Benjamin A.


Order Signed:
03/28/2017
Click to expand...
well at the least that clears up two different dates of death for the girls.
 
Beer said:
Please delete if this has already been posted.

Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports filed

Filed By:
.
State of Indiana


File Stamp:
03/28/2017

Order Issued

On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. 2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public. The Court, being duly advised, ORDERS as follows: State of Indiana has demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that public access or dissemination of the information contained in Ind. Code 36-2-14-18(a) would create significant risks of harm to the criminal investigation of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German. State of Indiana's Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports, filed March 28, 2017, is GRANTED. The Court ORDERS the Carroll County Coroner to PROHIBIT public inspection and copying the following information related to Ms. Abigail Williams or Ms. Liberty German: 1) The name, age, address, sex, and race of the deceased. 2) The address where the dead body was found, or if there is no address the location where the dead body was found and, if different, the address where the death occurred, or if there is no address the location where the death occurred. 3) The name of the agency to which the death was reported and the name of the person reporting the death. 4) The name of any public official or governmental employee present at the scene of the death and the name of the person certifying or pronouncing the death. 5) Information regarding an autopsy (requested or performed) limited to the date, the person who performed the autopsy, where the autopsy was performed, and a conclusion as to: a. the probable cause of death; b. the probable manner of death; and c. the probable mechanism of death. 6) The location to which the body was removed, the person determining the location to which the body was removed, and the authority under which the decision to remove the body was made. 7) The records required to be filed by a coroner under section 6 [IC 36-2-14-6] of this chapter and the verdict and the written report required under section 10 [IC 36-2-14-10] of this chapter. (Collectively the confidential autopsy information ) The confidential autopsy information shall remain confidential until further order of this Court. The Court shall enter further order if the Prosecuting Attorney notifies the Court that the investigation has concluded. The Court shall enter further order if any person demonstrates that access to the confidential autopsy information would not create a significant risk to the criminal investigation of the deaths, AND the public interest will be served by allowing access to the confidential autopsy information, per form. (Copy to State, Coroner 3/28/2017,HNC)

Judicial Officer:
Diener, Benjamin A.


Order Signed:
03/28/2017
Click to expand...


Thanks, Beer. I had not seen this before. It makes sense to keep the COD secret.
 
KayElJay Wrote:

Note: Numerous posts have been removed that violated WS social media rules. Also, please remember that Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Unless or until law enforcement declares someone a suspect or person of interest, their social media is off limits.

Not Allowed

Social media pages that fall in the following categories are OFF LIMITS.

Family members of either a victim or a suspect
Friends of either a victim or a suspect
Most any other individual

Don't link to these pages, nor make reference to information you find on them.


The Rules can be found here. If you have any questions, please contact any member of WS staff. Thanks in advance for your anticipated cooperation.
Click to expand...


When you bring over something from a social media account that belongs to say a good friend of a family member, and it is something that has not been confirmed by anyone from any law enforcement agency or mainstream media source here is what happens: The random thought that you bring over from a random social media account becomes solid fact within a few posts.

It happens over and over and over and over.

When you do this you cause a domino effect that can literally last forever.

One simple comment that you decide to post from a social media account with zero back-up can turn a case on its head.

It turns into fact, then people pile on that "fact" over and over and it changes the narrative of the story.

Then posters start seeing clues to the "real killer" based on the one post with posters piling on over and over. Then people start calling the police with their "new information" and this happens over and over and over and over.

In the meantime, Websleuths moderators are trying to stop the bleeding of false information by removing posts as fast as posters hit "Submit Reply".

Law Enforcement finds out all this crap started with a post made on Websleuths and then the LE community does not forget all the trouble that Websleuths caused everyone.

This is one comment, made by one person and it happens over and over and over.

DO NOT BRING ANYTHING OVER FROM ANY SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNT UNLESS THE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN APPROVED.

Your one comment can start a landslide of misinformation that causes a ton of work for people from coast to coast and you can really hurt a case.

I know that's the last thing you want to do right?

Thank you,
Tricia
 
Burnt Toast said:
well at the least that clears up two different dates of death for the girls.
Click to expand...

All the legal mumbo jumbo is why LE is not giving updated case info daily to the curious. It can negatively affect their case to broadcast what they know.
 
Beer said:
Please delete if this has already been posted.

Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports filed

Filed By:
State of Indiana


File Stamp:
03/28/2017

Order Issued
Click to expand...

Great info Beer! Do you have a link to the original? tia
 
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