IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #47

[Wsimm]

Thanks for this link.

What's struck me is I have yet to see or hear a single criticism of LE from anyone in the families.

ETA I live in a major metro area so it's not uncommon to see news clips or SM posts of families of murder victims railing about how long LE is taking to solve a case.

Thank you for this! My youngest son is a police officer and our entire family is very close friends with 2 Sheriff's in our community. Yes, LE is fallible just like everyone else and their professions. I liken the tears and emotions from LE in situation such as this to that of a surgeon praying before operating on you! I hope this makes sense? I know this case has changed all involved.... This can't be unremembered! LE is doing everything they can and need to do in order to bring a semblance of peace to these families!

 

[bodester413]

I was looking through the media thread for this case. I didn't realize there was a gravel pit behind the cemetery. That's very interesting.

 

[Ghosthunter]

I'll supply the ketchup and salt! :hilarious:

And some a1 sauce too please. :happydance:

 

[Yvettea]

Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world’s great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.

— Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It

 

[CataKil]

What would be the motive?

Your guess is as good as mine. What would be anyone's motive to kill two innocent kids? But since you asked, here's my opinion...the victim's are female and young, thus vulnerable. This means easy targets and most probably a sexual assault. We know it was not robbery so that rules that motive out. There is no evidence thus far that points to revenge so I don't believe it was that. I see no reason for the motive to be jealousy and the girls are too young to be in a relationship with a grown man so I don't see it as a motive of love. I believe it was not out of love, jealousy, revenge or money...the three most common motives for murder. That leaves me to believe the suspect possibly had a deep-seated anger towards females...someone with a temper that was uncontrollable at times. Perhaps something triggered him into an angry outburst towards females that day and he was carrying it around until he found his perfect victims to take it out on. Perhaps to the killer committing these murders was a release of that anger....possibly brewing over time like a volcano about to erupt. As someone rightfully mentioned before, SA's are about power and control, not sex. That's why the victim's were killed and that's why the suspect has no remorse for killing them. If it was just about sex I'm sure the suspect could have paid for that without having to kill two little girls.
Furthermore, I believe this anger towards females possibly comes from his upbringing/relationship with mother and/or a bitter divorce or failed relationships with other women. Which makes me believe the suspect is most likely single and has a trail of failed relationships with women. All just my opinion given the circumstances of what we know at this point.
I do believe the girls were targeted because they were young and female, I think this was a crime of opportunity. IMO some vulnerable female was going to be murdered by this guy, it was just a matter of him finding the right victim(s) at the time he was in his killing state of mind. A public walking trail on a day off school is a perfect place to hang to seek out such a victim. Also, because of the obvious risk the killer took I believe his anger ruled over his judgement.

What are your thoughts on motive?

 

[Bemused]

Thank you for this! My youngest son is a police officer and our entire family is very close friends with 2 Sheriff's in our community. Yes, LE is fallible just like everyone else and their professions. I liken the tears and emotions from LE in situation such as this to that of a surgeon praying before operating on you! I hope this makes sense? I know this case has changed all involved.... This can't be unremembered! LE is doing everything they can and need to do in order to bring a semblance of peace to these families!

Having worked with many from city to state to Feds, I know how dedicated the majority are. It amazes me the amount of criticism being heaped on LE in this case despite the press conferences where you can see the determination, horror, grief and anger they obviously are feeling. Unlike thread locks and TO, they live and breathe this case 24/7. I have tremendous respect and gratitude for them, and I'm glad I'm not doing their already difficult job with sniping from people who have no idea how to investigate a homicide, much less two. It takes its toll on LE, and I will continue to have faith in and support them.


ETA And remember, many of them have families of their own they probably have only seen briefly since Feb 14th. These LE folks often suffer in their personal lives due to the job.
MOO

 

[Daae]

Is there a way to bring forward a quote from a few days ago?

 

[Angelcat13]

He could have had leggings underneath...all in black like the guy seen an hour later on the bridge. Maybe that's why LE was looking for a backpack.
Why would you set out to kill a woman looking like you always do? If BG had a kill kit he also did not want to be recognizable by possible trail witnesses.

I'm glad you mentioned the guy in black. I've wondered about this, too - shedding clothes that may have blood or other evidence and calmly walking away in different clothes. Does anyone know if the "man in black" ever came forward to LE? I'm not asking for him to be identified here, just curious to know if LE was ever to confirm who it was and speak to them.

 

[ninij9]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but also in the US, a Search Warrant enables LE to legally search for and seize specific evidence. It's part of an investigative process but certainly not an instrument that demonstrates guilt just because one was issued. Simply put, its LE's legal method not to be accused of trespassing or theft.

Because RL owned the land where the bodies were found, the bar for Probable Cause wouldn't be very high.

For example what if an autopsy found victims had been shot with a certain type of gun. The SW would enable LE to search for that type of gun in order to conduct additional forensics and determine if it was the actual weapon.

I can think of one scenarios where a SW wouldn't be intended to implicate RL whatsoever. It's possible, considering his land was a crime scene, it was served to search for something not found, in order to prove due diligence so he can't later become an theory of defence for the person who's eventually charged.

Because we know so little information, a SW really proves nothing.


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I'm not saying you aren't making good points, however, have you read the criteria for a probable cause SW in a homicide investigation?

I'm NOT telling anyone RL is or isn't involved. But the PC SW is alarming.

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[CataKil]

I appreciate the breather.

There's still a lot of information that is sealed and there may possibly be results of the investigation yet to be revealed.

As it stands now, it makes sense to consider every possibility we have--including RL and many, many people who are not RL.

The point in the end is not to be deemed right, but to find justice for Libby and Abby.

May the diverse opinions continue...


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Well said! I second that motion. It's great to be here with so many people who obviously care about these young girls and want to help any way possible.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

— Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It

That's one of my all-time favorite stories and quotes.

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[WebSight]

And some a1 sauce too please. :happydance:

Do you want some fries with that hat?:dance:

 

[MistyWaters]

The only thing the SW proves is that LE had reasonable grounds to search his property. Period. I did not infer it meant he was guilty in any way. And since those warrants are sealed we do not know what those grounds are. If we did know we would have another week's worth of sleuthing to do.

And no, a SW is not LE's legal method of avoiding being accused of trespassing...thus why they must have reasonable grounds. People may trespass without having right to be on a property, but merely being there (trespassing) is not the same as having authority to go into a person's private dwelling to search through personal belongings to seize evidence...this far transcends "trespassing".


Items listed on a SW must reasonably be justified as to why LE wishes to search that particular place for that particular item. It is reasonable to believe LE served a SW on R/L's property because it was a crime scene, but for them to serve a SW on his personal residence and vehicle most definitely means they had other reasons to search. Again, I am in no way inferring he is guilty of anything just because a SW was served.

Thank you. Regarding my simplistic explanation of a SW, we're both saying the same thing, that it grants LE the legal right to search and seize.

 

[CataKil]

His shoes have bugged me from the beginning. To me they don't 'go' with the rest of that ensemble. From pants up his clothing looks like a casually dressed middle-aged Midwestern man who's not particularly athletic (perhaps leaning a bit toward the frumpy side) and doesn't spend a lot of money on clothing. I tend to lean toward Salvation Army jeans because of the older baggier style. Another way to phrase that is what we don't see in the jacket is the slim fit athletic look of North Face, Under Armour or similar trendier outdoor brands. But the shoes send a different message: outdoor athletic. The opposite of his clothing. I'm pretty convinced he's wearing what's marketed as a trail shoe or trail running shoe. (Standard hiking boots are heftier and generally don't have reflective pieces, whereas trail shoes or trail boots are lighter weight & usually have reflective pieces.) Hard to tell if they're standard shoe height or 'mid-cut' that stops just above the ankle. The point I'm trying to make is on a man wearing that style jacket & jeans I would expect to see a pair of brown suede work type boots, standard middle-aged mostly white tennis shoes or some kind of knock around footwear. I would not expect to see a pair of shoes specifically designed & marketed for trail use. I do not feel those shoes are accidental. I think BG wore them to accommodate the type of terrain he intended to be on that day. Hope I'm making sense. MOO
An example: Adidas Rockadia Trail Running Shoes: http://www.famousfootwear.com/en-US/Product/74725-1039241/adidas/Black_Grey/Mens+Rockadia+Trail+Running+Shoe.aspx?partnerid=MSNpla&cvo_adid=1039241-74725-11.0D&cvosrc=cse.BingShopping.74725&cvo_campaign=General&KPID=1039241-74725-11.0D%26k_clickid%3De37a5833-5a59-4e44-9294-c031b9616056

Excellent points! I agree with you 100%.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Hmmm. I took LE's statement to mean no one has come forward to claim the man in the photo is them or to answer their questions about what BG was doing/saw there.

So in my humble opinion, BG could still be any one of the people they talked to in the course of fielding tips or interviewing locals or serving search warrants, but no one has yet *admitted* to being BG.
For obvious reasons. Just a different take, friends.


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[Bird of Paradise]

Your guess is as good as mine. What would be anyone's motive to kill two innocent kids? But since you asked, here's my opinion...the victim's are female and young, thus vulnerable. This means easy targets and most probably a sexual assault. We know it was not robbery so that rules that motive out. There is no evidence thus far that points to revenge so I don't believe it was that. I see no reason for the motive to be jealousy and the girls are too young to be in a relationship with a grown man so I don't see it as a motive of love. I believe it was not out of love, jealousy, revenge or money...the three most common motives for murder. That leaves me to believe the suspect possibly had a deep-seated anger towards females...someone with a temper that was uncontrollable at times. Perhaps something triggered him into an angry outburst towards females that day and he was carrying it around until he found his perfect victims to take it out on. Perhaps to the killer committing these murders was a release of that anger....possibly brewing over time like a volcano about to erupt. As someone rightfully mentioned before, SA's are about power and control, not sex. That's why the victim's were killed and that's why the suspect has no remorse for killing them. If it was just about sex I'm sure the suspect could have paid for that without having to kill two little girls.
Furthermore, I believe this anger towards females possibly comes from his upbringing/relationship with mother and/or a bitter divorce or failed relationships with other women. Which makes me believe the suspect is most likely single and has a trail of failed relationships with women. All just my opinion given the circumstances of what we know at this point.
I do believe the girls were targeted because they were young and female, I think this was a crime of opportunity. IMO some vulnerable female was going to be murdered by this guy, it was just a matter of him finding the right victim(s) at the time he was in his killing state of mind. A public walking trail on a day off school is a perfect place to hang to seek out such a victim. Also, because of the obvious risk the killer took I believe his anger ruled over his judgement.

What are your thoughts on motive?

My original question was what would be the motive for RL?
And I asked that because so many have decided he is involved.

 

[Bemused]

I was looking through the media thread for this case. I didn't realize there was a gravel pit behind the cemetery. That's very interesting.

How so?

 

[JLSChook]

Having worked with many from city to state to Feds, I know how dedicated the majority are. It amazes me the amount of criticism being heaped on LE in this case despite the press conferences where you can see the determination, horror, grief and anger they obviously are feeling. <snipped by me>, they live and breathe this case 24/7. I have tremendous respect and gratitude for them, and I'm glad I'm not doing their already difficult job with sniping from people who have no idea how to investigate a homicide, much less two. It takes its toll on LE, and I will continue to have faith in and support them.

MOO

RSBM
Totally agree with this. I have always said that I'm glad WS is an LE friendly site because out 'there' people are just nasty and disrespectful. Like you said, they have no clue how to investigate a homicide but pretend they know all LE knows and are so inflexible because they think they know everything.

Anyone here that knows me, knows that I will always go to bat for LE especially when others (not here!) are dismissing what they say as if they (LE) don't know how to do their own jobs. Being a retired PI myself, I know what goes into these investigations..and it is not easy.

I said it a million times since I've been here at WS, LE is a thousand steps ahead of us and I'm glad. I have faith they will catch this killer.

 

[Shiressleuth]

JMO on the matter, with my personal belief aside - even if I were to believe RL could possibly be BG, I wouldn't see any point in trying to figure out if he actually bought fish, what he was wearing, what he said/didn't say to LE, etc. The reason being, I don't think there's anything I could find out about him that LE doesn't already know by now. On top of this, I also think, at this point, LE would probably have determined if BG is RL. So, I don't think not looking into those things would matter now, since either way they've investigated him, searched his property and he's on their radar. On the other hand, with LE not saying they have someone specific in their sights, it's possible they're still in need of the public's help in identifying and finding the .because of this I personally don't want to be set on any certain person right now, not if there's chance I could be wrong and I would hate to think of there being people out there who may know or find out something but ignore it because they think LE has him.

BTW, no disrespect intended towards other opinions, we're all free to believe what we want and share our opinions on here and this is only the way I look at it.

MOO

Just to clarify does mean what I think it means I.e. Piece Of ***** ?

 

[Bemused]

Is there a way to bring forward a quote from a few days ago?

Jax showed me how the other day. I think you click on the post number in the right corner, then copy the url. Or, copy and paste the text portion into a new post within the quote tags.

ETA clarity