IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #47

[Burnt Toast]

Do you have a link that he did not?

Good grief. I didn't say that he didn't. I have just not heard anything from MSM or LE that he did speak with them on the 13th and 14th. We simply don't know either way. any guess would be pure speculation.

 

[Steleheart]

Great post, and MOO is BG is wearing a disguise. He could have bought it just before the murders at a Rural King or some other store here in the Midwest. members have commented on the jeans, to me they look stiff, as in not broken in, which is why a lot of folks were thrown off at first, thinking there is something underneath. If there is anything underneath the jeans on his legs, I would think they would be long johns/thermal underwear.

The more intelligent SK's can be extremely meticulous in covering their tracks.

MOO is the killer in this case is at least above-average in intelligence, has killed before, and is very methodical in how he goes about murdering people. Like other killers, he goes after more vulnerable women, or women in vulnerable situations when he strikes, maybe all of them juveniles. One SK that comes to mind is Shawcross, and he changed his MO like a lot of killers do. Killed two juveniles, then years later went after prostitutes.

This was a brazen attack, and had to have taken some planning and even some recon of the area where it happened.

Thanks. I have thought from the beginning that he was dressed to blend - looks like anyone else in Delphi on that day. His clothes look baggy because IMO he has his regular clothes under those. Do the deed, toss the clothes and be on your way. Very early on LE asked that anyone who saw someone hitchhiking on 25, or saw someone throw out a backpack to please call. He may have had a pack stashed in the woods before the murders.

JMO

 

[Steleheart]

before we get closed permanently I hope people can avoid the illowfight:

 

[Jethro4WS]

His shoes have bugged me from the beginning. To me they don't 'go' with the rest of that ensemble. From pants up his clothing looks like a casually dressed middle-aged Midwestern man who's not particularly athletic (perhaps leaning a bit toward the frumpy side) and doesn't spend a lot of money on clothing. I tend to lean toward Salvation Army jeans because of the older baggier style. Another way to phrase that is what we don't see in the jacket is the slim fit athletic look of North Face, Under Armour or similar trendier outdoor brands. But the shoes send a different message: outdoor athletic. The opposite of his clothing. I'm pretty convinced he's wearing what's marketed as a trail shoe or trail running shoe. (Standard hiking boots are heftier and generally don't have reflective pieces, whereas trail shoes or trail boots are lighter weight & usually have reflective pieces.) Hard to tell if they're standard shoe height or 'mid-cut' that stops just above the ankle. The point I'm trying to make is on a man wearing that style jacket & jeans I would expect to see a pair of brown suede work type boots, standard middle-aged mostly white tennis shoes or some kind of knock around footwear. I would not expect to see a pair of shoes specifically designed & marketed for trail use. I do not feel those shoes are accidental. I think BG wore them to accommodate the type of terrain he intended to be on that day. Hope I'm making sense. MOO
An example: Adidas Rockadia Trail Running Shoes: http://www.famousfootwear.com/en-US/Product/74725-1039241/adidas/Black_Grey/Mens+Rockadia+Trail+Running+Shoe.aspx?partnerid=MSNpla&cvo_adid=1039241-74725-11.0D&cvosrc=cse.BingShopping.74725&cvo_campaign=General&KPID=1039241-74725-11.0D%26k_clickid%3De37a5833-5a59-4e44-9294-c031b9616056

You are making great sense! Thank you for some insight on the footwear.

 

[Falling Down]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcHfgbOcKo

At approx. the 25.0 mark on the Youtube video, LE says that 'One or two things happened- a chance encounter, don't think it's likely but possible; or that person knew they were going to be there.'

This makes me believe they do think the girls were targeted. I think they're probably combing every friend, friend's friends, and friend's friend's friends to find a connection. That's got to be overwhelming. Is it possible for authorities to search every IP address that ever clicked on the girl's social media accounts?

There are ways for people to disguise or mask their online presence. I do it when surfing government websites and sites where I know the owner(s) sell information to third parties (social media, etc.).

Someone using VPN's and other forms of blockers online for illegal activities could get at IP address of a local business or chain restaurant, for example, and use that as their mask address. It's easy to do. I've used addresses in other countries, even. Expounding on that, someone perusing social media for a 'target' could merely use a non-traceable smart phone/TracFone at a public WiFi spot, undetected when LE goes through IP's.

 

[JLSChook]

I am quite sure what LE means is that BG has not come forth to identify himself and say that was him on the bridge that day. I have not heard anything to say R/L has "come forth" to say that either was or wasn't him. Just because LE spoke to R/L previously does not mean R/L voluntarily "came forth" to talk about the picture of BG. So this proves nothing and eliminates no one. All it means to me is BG has not identified himself voluntarily.

I respect that's your opinion, but I don't believe that's the case at all. I wholeheartedly believe that LE has zero doubt that BG and RL are not same person.

Like I've said before, If BG is RL, I'll hang up my sleuthing hat--forever. (I'll also go to the eye doctor. Lol)

YMMV and MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/delphi-...very-of-missing-teens-bodies-on-his-property/


POSTED 4:15 PM, FEBRUARY 16, 2017, BY FOX59 WEB, UPDATED AT 08:00AM, FEBRUARY 17, 2017



Now Logan’s property is a crime scene, filled with investigators, the FBI, and dive teams.



Officials searched every inch of Logan’s 40 acres and the woods behind the nearby Morning Heights Cemetery which is just across the stream from the Monon High Bridge, the last spot the girls were seen.

 

[CataKil]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but also in the US, a Search Warrant enables LE to legally search for and seize specific evidence. It's part of an investigative process but certainly not an instrument that demonstrates guilt just because one was issued. Simply put, its LE's legal method not to be accused of trespassing or theft.

Because RL owned the land where the bodies were found, the bar for Probable Cause wouldn't be very high.

For example what if an autopsy found victims had been shot with a certain type of gun. The SW would enable LE to search for that type of gun in order to conduct additional forensics and determine if it was the actual weapon.

I can think of one scenarios where a SW wouldn't be intended to implicate RL whatsoever. It's possible, considering his land was a crime scene, it was served to search for something not found, in order to prove due diligence so he can't later become an theory of defence for the person who's eventually charged.

Because we know so little information, a SW really proves nothing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The only thing the SW proves is that LE had reasonable grounds to search his property. Period. I did not infer it meant he was guilty in any way. And since those warrants are sealed we do not know what those grounds are. If we did know we would have another week's worth of sleuthing to do.

And no, a SW is not LE's legal method of avoiding being accused of trespassing...thus why they must have reasonable grounds. People may trespass without having right to be on a property, but merely being there (trespassing) is not the same as having authority to go into a person's private dwelling to search through personal belongings to seize evidence...this far transcends "trespassing".


Items listed on a SW must reasonably be justified as to why LE wishes to search that particular place for that particular item. It is reasonable to believe LE served a SW on R/L's property because it was a crime scene, but for them to serve a SW on his personal residence and vehicle most definitely means they had other reasons to search. Again, I am in no way inferring he is guilty of anything just because a SW was served.

 

[Daae]

Great post, and MOO is BG is wearing a disguise. He could have bought it just before the murders at a Rural King or some other store here in the Midwest. members have commented on the jeans, to me they look stiff, as in not broken in, which is why a lot of folks were thrown off at first, thinking there is something underneath. If there is anything underneath the jeans on his legs, I would think they would be long johns/thermal underwear.

The more intelligent SK's can be extremely meticulous in covering their tracks.

MOO is the killer in this case is at least above-average in intelligence, has killed before, and is very methodical in how he goes about murdering people. Like other killers, he goes after more vulnerable women, or women in vulnerable situations when he strikes, maybe all of them juveniles. One SK that comes to mind is Shawcross, and he changed his MO like a lot of killers do. Killed two juveniles, then years later went after prostitutes.

This was a brazen attack, and had to have taken some planning and even some recon of the area where it happened.

He could have had leggings underneath...all in black like the guy seen an hour later on the bridge. Maybe that's why LE was looking for a backpack.
Why would you set out to kill a woman looking like you always do? If BG had a kill kit he also did not want to be recognizable by possible trail witnesses.

 

[JLSChook]

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/delphi-...very-of-missing-teens-bodies-on-his-property/


POSTED 4:15 PM, FEBRUARY 16, 2017, BY FOX59 WEB, UPDATED AT 08:00AM, FEBRUARY 17, 2017



Now Logan’s property is a crime scene, filled with investigators, the FBI, and dive teams.



Officials searched every inch of Logan’s 40 acres and the woods behind the nearby Morning Heights Cemetery which is just across the stream from the Monon High Bridge, the last spot the girls were seen.

Thanks Elley (and thanks also to ExPatCanada) for the links. It's pretty obvious that LE talked to the actual property owner (RL)-on the day they found the bodies. No doubt in my mind. It's the only logical conclusion to come to really. LE crime scene handbook 101.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

I believe there were some posts here about the area where they were found was searched on the night of the 13th but came up with nothing.When the same spot was searched on the 14th they were found.Of course there are many reasons why they may not have been seen such as the darkness or maybe even a tunnel visioned searcher or maybe they were covered,LE has made it clear yet to my knowledge.Many people here have said that perps often times like to involve themselves in the search or some other form.So if that is the case,and the killer or killers were part of the original search party,then wouldn't that mean they knew when the search was called off for the night?That open's up the possibility that indeed the killer/s inserted themselves into it to stay on top of it.It would also mean that it is entirely possible that the girls were taken to a different location earlier and killed and then when the perp knew the search was called for the night he/they brought the girls back.If it was indeed multiple perps,then it is not entirely out of the realm that this could be done.Even if law enforcement had left patrols out that night,which I think was mentioned by some here,from what I have seen of the posted maps there are still ways to get there without going thru a trailhead to avoid authorities.Also again assuming multiple perps,which has not been ruled out by LE.Why bring them back? I cannot see Libby recording all the event's that took place without running,even if the perp did have a weapon on her.LE stated they do have more,but do not want to have to release it.Again,that brings multiple perps to my mind.Possibly another perp used her phone to record what was taking place.If subtle hints such as "we don't know if the person talking is the same as in the picture,but the guy in the picture was a participant" and "complicated" and "we'll let the public draw their own conclusions"(which to me seems a slippery slope about the conclusions part) is all we will get from LE,then that's what we have to do.To me it seems organized but I'm no Sherlock about such things.I think the person is local but I'm not sure because of the billboards.I think with the subtle things said by LE about who's next,that may have been one branch of LE wanting to warn the public,but may have been shutdown by a higher three lettered authority.Remember go in groups,not pairs.Why was that statement made by LE?Aren't the odds stacked against that happening again if one person?I get the RL thing,but he just seems to convenient to me.I know people say that LE hasn't used the word "cleared" but they have said at least twice that he wasn't a suspect in the killing's and for an average joe public such as my self,that says cleared to me.The 12 SW that were obtained seems like a lot to me,so,12 probable causes? multiple potential suspect showed cause for a warrant.Do we know of any arrests for these,I don't think so,unless it hasn't been released because they don't need any runners.I have more to say but these are the thing's that were on my mind and I'm sure this was a long post but it's hard to tell in this little box so I won't take up anymore space.

 

[WebSight]

Good grief. I didn't say that he didn't. I have just not heard anything from MSM or LE that he did speak with them on the 13th and 14th. We simply don't know either way. any guess would be pure speculation.

Perhaps you are right - it is speculation either way but I believe that I "speculated" that he did, and you wanted proof via a link. So it appeared that my speculating had to have proof while your statement did not.

 

[Ghosthunter]

I respect that's your opinion, but I don't believe that's the case at all. I wholeheartedly believe that LE has zero doubt that BG and RL are not same person.

Like I've said before, If BG is RL, I'll hang up my sleuthing hat--forever. (I'll also go to the eye doctor. Lol)

YMMV and MOO

I'll go you one better. lf rl is bg I'll eat my sleuthing hat on fb live. Lol! Jmo! Lol!

 

[Lilowlet]

He could have had leggings underneath...all in black like the guy seen an hour later on the bridge. Maybe that's why LE was looking for a backpack.
Why would you set out to kill a woman looking like you always do? If BG had a kill kit he also did not want to be recognizable by possible trail witnesses.

My husband often wears long johns and even the silky type under his jeans . It does make his pants look different without them. So I agree with your thoughts on this. As for the backpack I wondered if maybe extra clothes for BG himself as well as whatever kit he may or may not have had. Ya never know. IMO

 

[Beer]

If the water were ankle deep the bottoms of the pants would be wet. I expect the water was a bit deeper. One thing everyone has to keep in mind is that the flow and the levels of the creek change. So, when you get to see the JM videos which were taken weeks later the water flow and levels were much lower than they were on the 13th.

Here is a 5 day view of the creek data from February 10th, 2017 through February 15th, 2017.

And here is a 38 day view of the creek data from February 10th, 2017 through March 20th, 2017.

You can see that both the depth and the flow of the creek have been significantly lower since the 12th of February (the peak you see) and also the 13th of February where the levels were only beginning to come down.

For reference, the gage that does the measurements is located upstream of the Monon High Bridge at the bridge for 300N.

Maybe the suspect did not control them after all. Maybe the girls knew the danger that they were in and ran through the creek to get away. One could have slipped, injured themselves which would have allowed the suspect to catch up and could have allowed a phone to be quickly hidden and lead to LE stating that they refused to separate. All opinions by me and jumping off someone's else thought in a FB group.

 

[WebSight]

Thanks. I have thought from the beginning that he was dressed to blend - looks like anyone else in Delphi on that day. His clothes look baggy because IMO he has his regular clothes under those. Do the deed, toss the clothes and be on your way. Very early on LE asked that anyone who saw someone hitchhiking on 25, or saw someone throw out a backpack to please call. He may have had a pack stashed in the woods before the murders.

JMO

I was staring at the pictures again today ( is anybody surprised that I am still obsessing about those photos?) and I really noticed how ill-fitting that blue jacket is. It looks to me that BG is much thinner than he seems at first glance. The jacket seems to be pulled down from the shoulders (you can see the strain on the material), and big around the middle, but not overweight bigness but from the jacket being full and weighed down by something in the front.

That is just what I am seeing. Today, anyway.

 

[BritDees]

yes, i know that, but we don't know if that was on the 13th and 14th. That would be just speculation.

This is just my opinion, on the 13th the girls hadn't been found and were just "missing" at that point, LE had no reason to talk to him. The 14th, however, was when the girls were found on RL's land. If they didn't talk to him on that day or night then they have serious problems. That would be known as protocol. If RL had been a 200 yr. old woman that hadn't moved for the last hundred years from her bed, they would have talked to her. I would hope!

The girls were found on his property, they HAD to talk to him. MOO

 

[JLSChook]

I'll go you one better. lf rl is bg I'll eat my sleuthing hat on fb live. Lol! Jmo! Lol!

I'll supply the ketchup and salt! :hilarious:

 

[Lilowlet]

Maybe the suspect did not control them after all. Maybe the girls knew the danger that they were in and ran through the creek to get away. One could have slipped, injured themselves which would have allowed the suspect to catch up and could have allowed a phone to be quickly hidden and lead to LE stating that they refused to separate. All opinions by me and jumping off someone's else thought in a FB group.

I still keep thinking the same, I'd have to dig up the link but I remember RL said he knew the families. I kept wondering if the girls knew the area well enough to try to get to him for safety? IMO always.

 

[Mainemom76]

I'll go you one better. lf rl is bg I'll eat my sleuthing hat on fb live. Lol! Jmo! Lol!

Yes!!