IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[cloudajo]

Based on the info we have available to us, I think the audio of ‘down the hill’ occurred shortly after the video taken by Libby showing BG on the bridge (~2:30pm), and just before the ‘criminal behavior’ occurred (quick, in a matter of minutes). They don’t have video of BG speaking so they can’t definitely say it’s the same guy, but I think it is. (IMO)

And I think that Sgt. Tony Slocum, who had already seen/heard the evidence they had when he was interviewed, is basically telling us in so many words what happened, which is that BG was directing/telling the girls to go down the hill just before the ‘criminal behavior’ started, and he may have been a little exasperated because he had told them to do it before. (IMO)

Video of suspect (BG) coming towards girls --> audio of suspect directing the girls ‘down the hill’ --> criminal behavior

Ref:

• ‘Wanted’ billboard later put up by FBI shows picture of suspect and says ‘Male last seen 2/13/17 @ 2:30PM (Ref ~1:35 in video)
• ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum called German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to depict and record the voice of her assailant. ‘This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt," he said. "To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur.’ (Ref)
• Sgt Tony Slocum, Indiana State Police Interview (transcribed): ‘This young lady is a hero, to have the presence of mind to make sure she’s activating a video system on this phone in order to capture that voice.’ …‘Hopefully someone will recognize that voice and to me, it appears they are saying, down the hill, down the hill, like they’re directing the young ladies where to go. It sounds like it might even be a little exasperated, like he had told them to do that before, and they weren’t quite listening, and he’s telling them to do it.’ (Ref)

 

[jillycat]

Thank you for the welcome! I already think of you guys as my crime sleuthing family. I check as soon as I get off work to see what new ideas you have put out there. I think you all are amazing and I am honored to be a part if your group!!

Warm welcome!

 

[cloudajo]

ab01, I hope you don't mind me using your post as a spring board for an experiment that tried earlier today because it ties in with your post as your post speaks of some questions that still linger in my mind as to placement of the girls.

Websight, the Not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part One

I wanted to try to video and then take stills from that 60-80 foot mark. I asked my trusty assistants (my teen daughters) to help me recreate what it would look like if someone was filmed on a phone from the above distance. I chose 70 feet as the median and asked my daughter to walk to the 60 foot mark. For this first part of the experiment I did not zoom during the filming (I would zoom after the still was taken). Below is what 60 feet looks like when I took a still from the video:

Now mind you, she would appear closer than that but I kept checking while filming and it isn't that skewed in terms of distance. I wanted to see if I could figure out how far away BG actually was for Libby and LE to have gotten those pictures.

Next I wanted to try to take the still and zoom in and enhance to see if I could make out the features of my daughter:

Well, as you can see, I have a pixelated mess zooming in and enhancing the photo after filming without the zoom on.

So far it seems that the video either might not have been taken from the 60 feet unzoomed or might not have been taken from that great a distance at all.

Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

Not wanting to take up a whole page, I will post a Part Two. I will show what happened when I filmed on zoom and then enhanced the still from it.

[snipped photos for space] WebSight, thanks for this - really helps to visualize the distance.

 

[eastcoasterinco]

Based on the info we have available to us, I think the audio of ‘down the hill’ occurred shortly after the video taken by Libby showing BG on the bridge (~2:30pm), and just before the ‘criminal behavior’ occurred (quick, in a matter of minutes). They don’t have video of BG speaking so they can’t definitely say it’s the same guy, but I think it is. (IMO)

And I think that Sgt. Tony Slocum, who had already seen/heard the evidence they had when he was interviewed, is basically telling us in so many words what happened, which is that BG was directing/telling the girls to go down the hill just before the ‘criminal behavior’ started, and he may have been a little exasperated because he had told them to do it before. (IMO)

Video of suspect (BG) coming towards girls --> audio of suspect directing the girls ‘down the hill’ --> criminal behavior

Ref:

• ‘Wanted’ billboard later put up by FBI shows picture of suspect and says ‘Male last seen 2/13/17 @ 2:30PM (Ref ~1:35 in video)
• ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum called German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to depict and record the voice of her assailant. ‘This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt," he said. "To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur.’ (Ref)
• Sgt Tony Slocum, Indiana State Police Interview (transcribed): ‘This young lady is a hero, to have the presence of mind to make sure she’s activating a video system on this phone in order to capture that voice.’ …‘Hopefully someone will recognize that voice and to me, it appears they are saying, down the hill, down the hill, like they’re directing the young ladies where to go. It sounds like it might even be a little exasperated, like he had told them to do that before, and they weren’t quite listening, and he’s telling them to do it.’ (Ref)

I completely agree, your post is in line with my thinking as well. IMO LG probably took two videos- the first being the still of BG, the second including the audio, both just before the criminal behavior began.

Thanks for your thoughtful post and quotes!


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[looksbetterinred]

ab01, I hope you don't mind me using your post as a spring board for an experiment that tried earlier today because it ties in with your post as your post speaks of some questions that still linger in my mind as to placement of the girls.

Websight, the Not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part One

I wanted to try to video and then take stills from that 60-80 foot mark. I asked my trusty assistants (my teen daughters) to help me recreate what it would look like if someone was filmed on a phone from the above distance. I chose 70 feet as the median and asked my daughter to walk to the 60 foot mark. For this first part of the experiment I did not zoom during the filming (I would zoom after the still was taken). Below is what 60 feet looks like when I took a still from the video:

Now mind you, she would appear closer than that but I kept checking while filming and it isn't that skewed in terms of distance. I wanted to see if I could figure out how far away BG actually was for Libby and LE to have gotten those pictures.

Next I wanted to try to take the still and zoom in and enhance to see if I could make out the features of my daughter:

Well, as you can see, I have a pixelated mess zooming in and enhancing the photo after filming without the zoom on.

So far it seems that the video either might not have been taken from the 60 feet unzoomed or might not have been taken from that great a distance at all.

Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

Not wanting to take up a whole page, I will post a Part Two. I will show what happened when I filmed on zoom and then enhanced the still from it.

Very much looking forward to part 2!

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[JLSChook]

Patiently waiting for WebSight's #2 post of pics/video

:waiting:

 

[bodester413]

BG could have also parked in the plowed field next to the cemetery. You can see where someone drove across it diagonally at some point. Where it ends even kind of lines up with one end of the bridge.

 

[Lilowlet]

Based on the info we have available to us, I think the audio of ‘down the hill’ occurred shortly after the video taken by Libby showing BG on the bridge (~2:30pm), and just before the ‘criminal behavior’ occurred (quick, in a matter of minutes). They don’t have video of BG speaking so they can’t definitely say it’s the same guy, but I think it is. (IMO)

And I think that Sgt. Tony Slocum, who had already seen/heard the evidence they had when he was interviewed, is basically telling us in so many words what happened, which is that BG was directing/telling the girls to go down the hill just before the ‘criminal behavior’ started, and he may have been a little exasperated because he had told them to do it before. (IMO)

Video of suspect (BG) coming towards girls --> audio of suspect directing the girls ‘down the hill’ --> criminal behavior

Ref:

• ‘Wanted’ billboard later put up by FBI shows picture of suspect and says ‘Male last seen 2/13/17 @ 2:30PM (Ref ~1:35 in video)
• ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum called German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to depict and record the voice of her assailant. ‘This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt," he said. "To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur.’ (Ref)
• Sgt Tony Slocum, Indiana State Police Interview (transcribed): ‘This young lady is a hero, to have the presence of mind to make sure she’s activating a video system on this phone in order to capture that voice.’ …‘Hopefully someone will recognize that voice and to me, it appears they are saying, down the hill, down the hill, like they’re directing the young ladies where to go. It sounds like it might even be a little exasperated, like he had told them to do that before, and they weren’t quite listening, and he’s telling them to do it.’ (Ref)

See if this were the case, the last part of your references would tell me, that they did have a previous encounter before the video, unless he is recorded saying down the hill more than once. Good post imo. I still think there is more vid along with voice though. Even if its, like someone else said, of shoes, or leaves, just random clips, maybe more. IMO always

 

[Sir WiggleBottom III]

you can trace ip's through kik

 

[WebSight]

WebSight, the not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part Two

Again, for this experiment I took a video of my daughter walking towards the camera starting at a distance of 70 feet down to 60 feet away. This time I zoomed while filming and then enhanced the photo after I caught my still from the video:

My daughter is still 60 feet away but she is zoomed at the maximum level and is already looking blurry. Next I cropped the still that I grabbed, enhanced it the best I could, and zoomed some more:

This close up is a blurry mess. You cannot even make out her face at all. So, still no joy.

So I have now filmed at the maximum zoom level at a distance of 60 feet (using GrayHuze's estimates) and I cannot even get a picture as clear or as close as BG's shots. My thoughts lean toward that maybe the girls were closer to BG after all? I cannot zoom enough to get a clear picture at 60 feet. So, back to the drawing board for me. I think that tomorrow I am going to try filming at 50 feet and then 40, etc. to see what it takes to get even a face.

Again the disclaimer: Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

The third experiment I did was to have my younger daughter film my older daughter walking towards her while my younger one is moving herself away from the older and leaving the camera on as she put it in her pocket. That one needs work so I won't post it yet.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Yes, the video is taken pointing North, but there's nothing to say that the suspect stepped onto the bridge on the North end. He may have entered on the SE end, passed the girls, turned around, and abducted them. In fact, that no one saw him on the trails suggests that he was never on the trails and that he did enter the bridge on the SE end.

Great points....

I think either way ...BG most likely entered from the NE side or near RL's property( to avoid bieng on the trail ).....and came up to the bridge on the SE or NW entrance ( side of bridge) ambushed the Girls.....

returned the Girls (to where the Bodies were found) on the edge of RL's property

- The main reason i think BG entered on the NW side of the bridge is because BG would have had to cross the creek / water first ( if he came from the North East area to the SE entrance of the Bridge)...would his pants look wet and muddy on a blurry photo?.....not sure IMO they look dry.

also would the Girls have taken a photo of a man walking away from them instead?......not sure? (Maybe he doubled back and they got scared! so maybe he did enter from the south side).....but there is a photo of a man walking towards them...

how he got there without anyone seeing him walking/riding or any vehicle parked anywhere is important to me ( considering the area seems quite and locals may have noticed any vehicles or people walking around)...

 

[otto]

Great points....

I think either way ...BG most likely entered from the NE side or near RL's property( to avoid bieng on the trail ).....and came up to the bridge on the SE or NW entrance ( side of bridge) ambushed the Girls.....

returned the Girls (to where the Bodies were found) on the edge of RL's property

- The main reason i think BG entered on the NW side of the bridge is because BG would have had to cross the creek / water first ( if he came from the North East area to the SE entrance of the Bridge)...would his pants look wet and muddy on a blurry photo?.....not sure IMO they look dry.

also would the Girls have taken a photo of a man walking away from them instead?......not sure? (Maybe he doubled back and they got scared! so maybe he did enter from the south side).....but there is a photo of a man walking towards them...

how he got there without anyone seeing him walking/riding or any vehicle parked anywhere is important to me ( considering the area seems quite and locals may have noticed any vehicles or people walking around)...

Yes, the question of whether he would have visibly wet feet has been suggested over the last couple of weeks, but we don' know what he is wearing on his feet, and the creek is ankle deep in some areas. He might be wearing boots and he might have tucked is pants in his boots to cross the creek before he cornered the girls on the SE end of the bridge.

Either way, people who were on the trails that day did not see him on the trail, or near the North end of the bridge. It's very likely that he simply wasn't there. I think the suspect is experienced at this, and that his priorities prior to abducting the children would be to not be seen by anyone, not even the children, to surprise them, to wait for them to be at the end of the bridge before abducting them. His priority after murdering the children would be to get to his vehicle as fast as possible - which suggests to me that he murdered them near the location where his vehicle was parked ... at the cemetery.

 

[cathdawg]

I am off topic, I just came home and was wondering if anything news came forward re post #722 , FBI and lots of Police activity in Kirklin Indiana today. TIA

 

[bodester413]

Yeah, digital zoom really trashes the photo. It makes it all pixelated doesn't it?......I wish we knew what kind of phone took the photo of BG.....if it had an optical or digital zoom.....

WebSight, the not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part Two

Again, for this experiment I took a video of my daughter walking towards the camera starting at a distance of 70 feet down to 60 feet away. This time I zoomed while filming and then enhanced the photo after I caught my still from the video:

My daughter is still 60 feet away but she is zoomed at the maximum level and is already looking blurry. Next I cropped the still that I grabbed, enhanced it the best I could, and zoomed some more:

This close up is a blurry mess. You cannot even make out her face at all. So, still no joy.

So I have now filmed at the maximum zoom level at a distance of 60 feet (using GrayHuze's estimates) and I cannot even get a picture as clear or as close as BG's shots. My thoughts lean toward that maybe the girls were closer to BG after all? I cannot zoom enough to get a clear picture at 60 feet. So, back to the drawing board for me. I think that tomorrow I am going to try filming at 50 feet and then 40, etc. to see what it takes to get even a face.

Again the disclaimer: Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

The third experiment I did was to have my younger daughter film my older daughter walking towards her while my younger one is moving herself, away from the older and leaving the camera on as she put it in her pocket. That one needs work so I won't post it yet.

 

[GangaMa]

IMOO- BG knew these girls. I think he is known by someone in one of the families. They may just not recognize him Or are WAY too afraid to admit it. Especially if they didn''t report it early on.

Right. If they kept their mouths shut earlier, imagine what would happen in that area if they now admitted that they know who it was in the beginning? They'd have to move out of town. MOO

 

[Lilowlet]

WebSight, the not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part Two

Again, for this experiment I took a video of my daughter walking towards the camera starting at a distance of 70 feet down to 60 feet away. This time I zoomed while filming and then enhanced the photo after I caught my still from the video:

My daughter is still 60 feet away but she is zoomed at the maximum level and is already looking blurry. Next I cropped the still that I grabbed, enhanced it the best I could, and zoomed some more:

This close up is a blurry mess. You cannot even make out her face at all. So, still no joy.

So I have now filmed at the maximum zoom level at a distance of 60 feet (using GrayHuze's estimates) and I cannot even get a picture as clear or as close as BG's shots. My thoughts lean toward that maybe the girls were closer to BG after all? I cannot zoom enough to get a clear picture at 60 feet. So, back to the drawing board for me. I think that tomorrow I am going to try filming at 50 feet and then 40, etc. to see what it takes to get even a face.

Again the disclaimer: Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

The third experiment I did was to have my younger daughter film my older daughter walking towards her while my younger one is moving herself, away from the older and leaving the camera on as she put it in her pocket. That one needs work so I won't post it yet.

Thanks! Now I'm starting to question your phones video quality in comparison to Libby's. I am curious about the putting the phone in the pocket. I would like to know from your phones perspective, how close BG would have to be for his voice to be audible and vice versa. Granted we assume the volume was maxed and the phone was in a pocket. IMO always.

 

[eastcoasterinco]

Does it matter if phone is found? I mean, will it tell them anything they can't already see from records, towers and the "cloud"?

Jmo

Hmm, maybe. Maybe not. It would be interesting to test the physical phone for fingerprints other than LGs, although depending on where it's found (if found) that may not yield anything useful.

For example, if found near the crime scene ( I'm hoping LE found it right away and has it), it may have some DNA or fingerprints that could be useful (hate to say it but, blood spatter, seamen etc could be there).

If found in, say, a dumpster or public place, other people may have touched it before it has been found, which would lead LA astray.

IMO the cell phone "pinging around town" is a very perplexing piece of info. It was stated by LGs grandfather in local news interviews during the preliminary search.

Did the perp take the phone elsewhere, did the perp take the girls (and therefore the phone) elsewhere, did the phone ping two separate towers due to crossing the creek or being in two different parts of the trail, did the perp plant the phone on someone else so that it would ping around town and lead the family and LE to believe the girls were safe in another part of town so they wouldn't search?

So many questions!!

I would hope the cell phone has been found and analyzed.

I don't know about you, but my iCloud is not set up to constantly upload information to it.

When my phone broke a few weeks ago and I got a new one, the update from the cloud put info into my phone (texts, photos, videos etc.) from several weeks prior and did not have any of the newer info.

If LG had similar settings, it may be the case that LE found the audio and video on the physical phone itself. Or, she could have had it so that photos and videos upload straight to the cloud and texts do not.

In that case, the physical phone would be useful to see the most recent text communication. Maybe that would put the catfish theory to rest already!

I have limited knowledge regarding iCloud so if anyone has insight that contradicts my insight please let us know!

All speculation and IMO

 

[AlphaWolf]

WebSight, the not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part Two

Again, for this experiment

I just want to add....I really do value members doing these type of experiments and videos ( especially of the areas or surrounding areas of the crime).....they help me alot understanding the crime/details ( and probably will help solve many cases now and in the future)

sorry to go OT but I also think the detail of the BG photo can be misleading in the face / head area ( due to the quality of the image)

 

[Ghosthunter]

WebSight, the not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part Two

Again, for this experiment I took a video of my daughter walking towards the camera starting at a distance of 70 feet down to 60 feet away. This time I zoomed while filming and then enhanced the photo after I caught my still from the video:

My daughter is still 60 feet away but she is zoomed at the maximum level and is already looking blurry. Next I cropped the still that I grabbed, enhanced it the best I could, and zoomed some more:

This close up is a blurry mess. You cannot even make out her face at all. So, still no joy.

So I have now filmed at the maximum zoom level at a distance of 60 feet (using GrayHuze's estimates) and I cannot even get a picture as clear or as close as BG's shots. My thoughts lean toward that maybe the girls were closer to BG after all? I cannot zoom enough to get a clear picture at 60 feet. So, back to the drawing board for me. I think that tomorrow I am going to try filming at 50 feet and then 40, etc. to see what it takes to get even a face.

Again the disclaimer: Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

The third experiment I did was to have my younger daughter film my older daughter walking towards her while my younger one is moving herself away from the older and leaving the camera on as she put it in her pocket. That one needs work so I won't post it yet.

Thank you for the hard work you put in this for us!

 

[looksbetterinred]

SNIPPED BY ME

The third experiment I did was to have my younger daughter film my older daughter walking towards her while my younger one is moving herself away from the older and leaving the camera on as she put it in her pocket. That one needs work so I won't post it yet.

What kind of phone model were you using? Do we know the model of the phone that took the original images? I know there are, sometimes large, amounts of quality from model to model.
It may be something as simple as that. Part 2 showed a better thought track IMO. The pixelation on part 1 could not be cleaned up enough to get a marginal image. Part 2 on the otherhand, is a bit more like the original. I feel that the video may have been zoomed which would lead me to think that they may have uneasy feeling long before he was within arms reach.

All moo

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