IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #49

[matou]

I can't believe this isn't solved yet. The bodies were found the next day. There are many murders where the victims are never found or are skeletal remains. Frustrating.

 

[Dawning3]

Many factories require employees to wear some type of eye protection. For many, it's just safety glasses, depending on the job.

I wouldn't be surprised if Indiana Packers required at least some of their workers to wear goggles (or face shields) for some of their jobs. It's not a good idea to have hog material splashing in workers' eyes. MOO.

True, but most safety goggles are clear. If they have color on them at all, it's usually from a black or colored strap. I suppose Indiana Packers could be using a specific kind that's not generally seen.


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[Coach M]

Yes. IMO they know exactly who did it and where he is. There is a distinct lack of urgency in seeking the public's help as they put the case for a double homicide together. It works against LE to prematurely name a suspect or arrest before they're ready because there are time constraints by law to protect the rights of the accused. I 100% believe they know. I'm sure many if not all of the LEOs share the frustration of the snail's pace, but I'm equally sure they want a conviction. IMO
It's also telling to me the families have not criticized LE that I'm aware of.

Then why ALL the billboardsacross the country? Or are you saying that they found out after the billboards? God, I hope you are right, but my cynicism is holding me back from thinking the same as you.

 

[Bemused]

You make some awesome points.... I really hope your right I would love to see justice for this crime... too many go unsolved. Still hanging out in my own little skeptical world though As time passes I hope to be eating some humble pie and you can serve it to me if the LE makes an arrest in this case

It's not about who here are right or who has to bake, serve and eat those pies. I wish I could think of a plausible suspect that didn't suggest to me a local who knew the families because that compounds this tragedy in my mind.

IMO, my suspect was probably drinking, got angry and things escalated to a double murder and a panicked coverup.

I'll be happy when someone is arrested no matter what his name turns out to be. I want the man who callously killed two little girls and left them out in the cold like discarded trash to be held accountable. That's all I care about and I'll be happy to be mistaken in my opinions, theories and conclusions as they stand today. JMO

 

[No it's not]

I am running into a discrepancy of the POI/BG height positioning him on the bridge according to GH's latest video. He corrected the POI's position from being closer to the 5th platform to actually being at around the 6th platform. Initially we all thought Libby may have been standing on the 6th platform taking the video. Now she is rather in the very end (SE) of the bridge or slightly there-off.

Optical zoom may still play a role here and I have contacted GH to clarify.

Here is the discrepancy IMO. You can see how much lateral space ( to the individual's right side) would be still left, and optically he would be very short:

After tweaking the perspective, this one here leads to an all over better alignment IMO with the shrubbery and branch network in the background (you'd have to see it with less opacity, if you want to try that):

I always thought the POI/BG was closer to the 5th platform by simply counting the horizontal planks (RRTs). That is also, where GH placed him first. In that configuration I measured a height of app. 5'8" to app. 5'11" allowing 1-2 inches for correction. I reconstructed the bridge walkway according to perspective/vanishing points. That also went hand in hand with another poster's measurements here on WS basing his approach on the RRT height (guard) of app. 4".

Again, I am waiting to hear back from GH. Either the last POI/BG location is incorrect, or we have some optical zoom or the perspective playing games with us, or we have indeed a shorter individual, or I am wrong with my configurations and may as well eat dirt.

I have tremendous respect for GH and his work. I am almost sure, there is an additional variable here, we - or I - have not payed enough attention to.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[Dawning3]

I suspect most of it is to sexually graphic to be released.

So sad to think about.


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[MistyWaters]

Yes. IMO they know exactly who did it and where he is. There is a distinct lack of urgency in seeking the public's help as they put the case for a double homicide together. It works against LE to prematurely name a suspect or arrest before they're ready because there are time constraints by law to protect the rights of the accused. I 100% believe they know. I'm sure many if not all of the LEOs share the frustration of the snail's pace, but I'm equally sure they want a conviction. IMO

It's also telling to me the families have not criticized LE that I'm aware of.

How can you be 100% sure of anything given we've been given virtually no information?





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[St. Anthony2017]

From the article linked earlier:

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...rs-shift-through-analysis-evidence/100347324/



LE is even checking out tips from psychics.

A police chief once told me that some of his best Detectives have what could be called a second sense or psychic ability when they get good hunches and follow up on them and are able to solve a crime.

 

[Bemused]

Then why ALL the billboardsacross the country? Or are you saying that they found out after the billboards? God, I hope you are right, but my cynicism is holding me back from thinking the same as you.

IMO, LE had a good idea in the first day but I'd guess a 24-hour expedited turnaround on analyzing the video until they saw and heard it all. They released the BG audio and photos at the presser with Supt. Carter on the 15th, IIRC, so just a day after Abby and Libby were found murdered.

 

[Coach M]

Is there technology that could block out the girls' voices and isolate only the perpetrator's voice? Even if he's screaming and acting scary, it would be helpful to hear more.


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That's why I'm skeptical that they have more video/audio evidence. They want the perp to think that they do, but I just don't think so. There's some high tech people/organizations that I'm sure could do some modifications on any recording to release what LE would want. That's why there hasn't been any other release of information. Or, and hopefully it's this one, I'm wrong and LE already knows who did it like people have said in this forum and that's why there has been such limited information. I think the chances of it not being one of these two scenarios is pretty slim. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

It's not about who here are right or who has to bake, serve and eat those pies. I wish I could think of a plausible suspect that didn't suggest to me a local who knew the families because that compounds this tragedy in my mind.

IMO, my suspect was probably drinking, got angry and things escalated to a double murder and a panicked coverup.

I'll be happy when someone is arrested no matter what his name turns out to be. I want the man who callously killed two little girls and left them out in the cold like discarded trash to be held accountable. That's all I care about and I'll be happy to be mistaken in my opinions, theories and conclusions as they stand today. JMO

Thank you for explaining. Because you may've noticed that LE is still asking for tips - says to me they don't 100% know who is/are the culprit/s yet.

 

[heaterann]

It's not about who here are right or who has to bake, serve and eat those pies. I wish I could think of a plausible suspect that didn't suggest to me a local who knew the families because that compounds this tragedy in my mind.

IMO, my suspect was probably drinking, got angry and things escalated to a double murder and a panicked coverup.

I'll be happy when someone is arrested no matter what his name turns out to be. I want the man who callously killed two little girls and left them out in the cold like discarded trash to be held accountable. That's all I care about and I'll be happy to be mistaken in my opinions, theories and conclusions as they stand today. JMO

Okay last comment of the day I have a half day work...thanks good friday!!! I have to humbly disagree with the first part of your statement.... I will be the first to admit that being right about this case would be awesome.... after how little evidence we got in this case, after getting crucified at times on these threads for my beliefs, after all the investigating I did outside of this thread.... yep the two year old in me would be on this thread in a heart beat saying "told you so" I came to this site to sleuth this case, this is a hobby of sorts for me. If something I can find helps great, but reality is that without all the knowledge that LE has we are shooting in the dark at best.. which is why it would be so amazing if I or anyone on here was right.... I think that would be worth some bragging rights

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Lots of hiking boots and trail shoes are waterproof. I don't know about deer creek, but the swimming hole in the local creek I grew up playing in had several spots that were over 5' in depth, as well as areas that were no more than 2 or 3". Even if you got you shoes wet, you took 'em home and set 'em out to dry. Not ruined at all. At least not by our measurement. Same thing working construction. More than once, in the spring, especially, jobsites would have standing water and mud that you'd have to walk through. I started wearing waterproof work boots early on so I could hose the mud off and let 'em dry.

Interesting train of thought about the water blocking access to my car this afternoon. I had two choices - destroy my shoes, or take them off. It was a no-brainer. If the suspect parked at the cemetery, he probably took off his shoes when he got to the creek. Then he abducted them.

 

[Schiercliffe]

LE may have a suspect, but don't t want to alert the person. They can't make an arrest based on what they know. They have to have evidence (in order for a murder case to progress the way we want it to) and I'm sure not all evidence has been processed. From what I have learned over the years, they generally don't send all evidence for analysis out at once, or to the same labs. Unfortunately, labs do not suffer from a lack of work and everyone thinks their case is more important than others. The labs won't be rushed because protocols can be compromised resulting in mistakes or accusations of mistakes.

We don't like waiting, but just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean it's not happening. I would hate to think it will take years, but unfortunately sometimes it does.

Great post! I think you are absolutely right about the fact that "just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean it's not happening" it's very possible LE is being extremely patient in building a solid case before arresting a suspect.

IMO the suspect is someone very familiar with the trail, bridge and the surrounding land and roads. It's possible the person grew up in the area, with family or friends still living there. IMO this person knew exactly where to park as to not raise suspicion and have a safe area to getaway unseen. IMO BG was careful to cover his tracks and LE is being equally diligent to expose them in order to build a rock solid case.

I would expect LE to have a suspect under 24/7 surveillance. It's possible the suspect could be in a surrounding county and nobody is wise to the ongoing surveillance, and LE is confident their suspect will not do harm or escape the area while they line up all their ducks for a solid indictment.

I watched a program on ID yesterday about 5 people who were taken from a restaurant and brutally murdered in a rural Texas town. The crime took place in the 80's and it took almost 20 years before they found the killers. There was a lot of speculation by townsfolk as to who committed the crime, that later turned out to be false. As heinous as the crime was- LE waited till they had the right people.

I think justice will prevail for Libby and Abby. The very fact that LE doesn't release more information makes me believe they don't want to tip their suspect that they are onto him. I think it's just a matter of time before LE is confident they have a solid case and they take this monster down.


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[Boxeador]

Yes. IMO they know exactly who did it and where he is. There is a distinct lack of urgency in seeking the public's help as they put the case for a double homicide together. It works against LE to prematurely name a suspect or arrest before they're ready because there are time constraints by law to protect the rights of the accused. I 100% believe they know. I'm sure many if not all of the LEOs share the frustration of the snail's pace, but I'm equally sure they want a conviction. IMO

It's also telling to me the families have not criticized LE that I'm aware of.

i hope you are right.

But Just my opinion of course, i think there is a simply a chance that LE doesn't want to have a press conference without actual progress to share.

IMO they should start completely over - redo the investigation, rerun all their criteria and steps. Somewhere there is something that doesn't add up, or not asked.

 

[margarita25]

Brazen. Sexual. Predator.
Experienced. Hunter/Outdoorsman. Engages in Child *advertiser censored*.
Moo.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Okay last comment of the day I have a half day work...thanks good friday!!! I have to humbly disagree with the first part of your statement.... I will be the first to admit that being right about this case would be awesome.... after how little evidence we got in this case, after getting crucified at times on these threads for my beliefs, after all the investigating I did outside of this thread.... yep the two year old in me would be on this thread in a heart beat saying "told you so" I came to this site to sleuth this case, this is a hobby of sorts for me. If something I can find helps great, but reality is that without all the knowledge that LE has we are shooting in the dark at best.. which is why it would be so amazing if I or anyone on here was right.... I think that would be worth some bragging rights

I think when a person is set in their belief of who did it, then they rationalize a way for all the pieces to fall into place for them. Not right or wrong. But not IMO the best way to approach this. We're mere spectators here trying to figure out this puzzle with very little to go on. No one can be sure who did this unless they have inside knowledge from LE and many here are doubting even they know who is responsible.
MOO

 

[WebSight]

I am running into a discrepancy of the POI/BG height positioning him on the bridge according to GH's latest video. He corrected the POI's position from being closer to the 5th platform to actually being at around the 6th platform. Initially we all thought Libby may have been standing on the 6th platform taking the video. Now she is rather in the very end (SE) of the bridge or slightly there-off.

Optical zoom may still play a role here and I have contacted GH to clarify.

Here is the discrepancy IMO. You can see how much lateral space ( to the individual's right side) would be still left, and optically he would be very short:

After tweaking the perspective, this one here leads to an all over better alignment IMO with the shrubbery and branch network in the background (you'd have to see it with less opacity, if you want to try that):

I always thought the POI/BG was closer to the 5th platform by simply counting the horizontal planks (RRTs). That is also, where GH placed him first. In that configuration I measured a height of app. 5'8" to app. 5'11" allowing 1-2 inches for correction. I reconstructed the bridge walkway according to perspective/vanishing points. That also went hand in hand with another poster's measurements here on WS basing his approach on the RRT height (guard) of app. 4".

Again, I am waiting to hear back from GH. Either the last POI/BG location is incorrect, or we have some optical zoom or the perspective playing games with us, or we have indeed a shorter individual, or I am wrong with my configurations and may as well eat dirt.

I have tremendous respect for GH and his work. I am almost sure, there is an additional variable here, we - or I - have not payed enough attention to.

All IMO

-Nin

Hi Nin, I will be really interested what you find out. When the girls and I attempted our recreation on our phone we decided that Libby filmed in zoom and the stills were taken from that and then probably enlarged further and enhanced. We could very well be wrong but when we filmed without the zoom, the subject looked minute compared to the naked eye view. Whereas zooming was most like what was actually being seen by Libby. Yesterday we redid the experiment with an iPhone with the same results. Zooming gave the real-life view. Not bigger, just about right. So, while I think it was zoomed and there might be some skew, I wonder if it still was more proportionate to real view.

Oh, and I just had another thought. When I did that graphic placing BG next to Abby, I could not for the life of me get his proportions right without making him taller. I "knew" that he was shorter but as I tried to measure his stature against Abby's I had to make him taller. So I am very interested. Can't wait to hear what you find out.

 

[margarita25]

(Sorry I'm so behind. What ever happened with Owl4's friend and the binocular sleuthing from her porch? Did you guys figure out what that big presence of LE in Kirklin was all about? Tia.)

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if clues downstairs can point in a direction of a possible signature?
(Note to post my thoughts downstairs regarding this sinice TOS does nit alow discushion of this upstairs.)