IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #5

[Bob Saccamano]

I know this guy is a creep (to put it way too mildly), but I am guessing he didn't come off as a creep at first to the girls. I don't think he pounced on them out of the blue, but somehow cajoled them and enticed them into an area where he could then control them.

So, what could he say *AND* who could he be to pull that off?

Was he a familiar face to them? Or maybe someone who comes off as "dad like" and knows how to chat with that age group? Maybe not someone who looks and acts like a drifter, but rather someone who looks and acts like a regular guy from the area out for a walk.

jmopinion

In my line of work, I've encountered strangers in the woods on more than one occasion as an adult male with a handgun on my side in plain view, and it was still unnerving. I can't imagine these girls encountering an adult male stranger and not having their hair stand on end and get very uncomfortable, especially if he is approaching them. On one occasion, I'm positive it wouldn't have turned out good had I not had the gun in plain view.

That segues into the video of the guy that has yielded the stills. I really feel that those photos came as the result of someone feeling uncomfortable with his presence.

 

[Invisible]

I was thinking that these girls did run. Looking at the map that shows the timeline of events, it's like they made it across the bridge to the other side of the creek, and at some point, realizing danger, ran (and the perp giving chase) ... only to encounter rough terrain. They may have fallen or had their escape slowed due to the terrain, and he caught up to them, somewhere near where they were found.

That's such a scary scenario. It gives me chills to imagine that happening.

 

[Spiritecho]

http://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

Detectives say the man in the photo is believed to have been involved in the girls' murders - leaving the door open to the possibility that more suspects could be named later.

...that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.

 

[Jabarn]

Police believe the man may have changed his look to try and hide his identity. They are asking every Hoosier to keep their eyes and ears open.

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/02/20/indi...-main-suspect-in-murders-of-two-delphi-teens/

I am wondering why a native from the general area would change their look? He blends in. Part of me is being facetious, since the bridge man from the video looks like a lot of guys in that area who are completely innocent- the kind of guys that feel comfortable wearing jeans, hats, and a jacket layered over their clothing. Basically, a lot of guys in that area look the same.

That being said, there is a possibility of this being a local crime, not a random serial killer passing though. Since the FBI is helping, they need to ensure the victimology, the family's involvement, and any motives that might make sense to the POI. We all know this has already not turned out well for the girls.. Let's hope for Justice.

 

[Blythe]

Thanks for your 'What we know' list.

I am adding a 15 captioned slideshow from the TheIndyChannel link provided at the end of my post.

TIMELINE
DELPHI TIMELINE slideshow 1-15 each captioned.Teen girls found dead after disappearing while hiking
A terrible 48 hours for a small community in Carroll County: Two girls, ages 13 and 14, went on a hike and disappeared. The next day, two bodies were found during the search for them and the following day, the bodies were positively identified as the two girls by authorities.




http://www.theindychannel.com/news/timeline-13-year-old-girls-go-missing-bodies-found

Excellent information. Thank you.

 

[policyoftruth501]

I haven't been able to check the thread for a few days and was so hoping there would be news of an arrest. For the sake of these families I certainly would like to see an arrest happen soon if LE is thorough and able to collect the evidence to arrest the right person without any further delay.


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[Hoosier952]

Do hitchhikers often use this highway?

I hope this info is out where truckers (in that area) would see it.

I travel 25 a lot for work and shopping(but usually end around Lafayette rather than all the way to Delphi) and I've yet to see anyone hitchhiking. I rarely see hitchhikers outside of large-ish cities and they are almost always at interstate ramps. Occasionally, I see men walking around on rural roads, but none of them I've stopped to talk to have been hitchhikers. Usually farmers traveling from field to field or someone walking to go fishing.

I have shared this with every trucker I know and asked if they could at least share the info with others they run into or put up a flyer at truck stops if they could find the time. One of my classmates travels 65 daily on a regional route, so he's putting up flyers this week.

I'm speaking more about the switch from "police do not believe foul play is involved and have been given no information that would lead them to believe the girls are in any immediate danger" to "oops, we suspect foul play" and "I don’t want to discourage anyone from using the system; it’s there for a purpose and for recreation." to "yeah, there may be a murderous hitchhiker thumbing rides".

Then there's the whole warrant search which, according to them, was a complete waste of time that they don't have.

I think they messed up from the very beginning. I think they thought they were runaways and LE treated it as such. I found the timeline of the search resuming the next day at 11:45 am in this article quite worrisome as well. (slide 6/15) http://www.theindychannel.com/news/timeline-13-year-old-girls-go-missing-bodies-found. I assume that meant some type of official, organized search or maybe it's wrong, but it's bugged me since that article came out. Why wouldn't they start at daybreak?

In the video here, the former FBI agent suggests that the suspect would have history with the trail and the surroundings.

Just because I think we need a little bit of levity, I thought I would share my thoughts on this pic. The square on the right is clearly Paddington Bear climbing the tree and the right is someone dealing crack. :butthead:

I clearly see a shirtless guy wearing a cowboy hat and Wranglers with his hands behind his back (left) and an origami robin (right).

If the outline in the pocket is a gun, it's not a small handgun. It looks a lot like a Desert Eagle and not your typical conceal carry. It also appears to have been placed into the pocket by the barrel (handle in first) which doesn't make sense.

I see the outline and agree it could be a gun, but what kind of moron would place a gun in a pocket with the barrel facing towards their hand? Unless it's not loaded and there wasn't much of a safety concern. But it still breaks the rules of firearm safety. Of course, this guy likely went on to kill two innocent children shortly after this picture, so he obviously isn't concerned with rules or basic safety.

bbm - LE said I think it was yesterday that he was walking the trail between 1pm and 3.30pm.
Interesting thought. Maybe suspect knew Mr. L would be out and about on his property for some definite reason. Maybe Mr. L should think about who could know that (a friend, neighbour, handyman, etc).

Mr. L strikes me as the type that might sit around at a cafe on Saturday mornings (or maybe every morning if he's retired) chatting to the other men folk while drinking coffee and talking about the weather. Is there a place like that in Delphi? There are a couple of places like that here with the same regulars every week.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

I am wondering why a native from the general area would change their look? He blends in. Part of me is being facetious, since the bridge man from the video looks like a lot of guys in that area who are completely innocent- the kind of guys that feel comfortable wearing jeans, hats, and a jacket layered over their clothing. Basically, a lot of guys in that area look the same.

That being said, there is a possibility of this being a local crime, not a random serial killer passing though. Since the FBI is helping, they need to ensure the victimology, the family's involvement, and any motives that might make sense to the POI. We all know this has already not turned out well for the girls.. Let's hope for Justice.

If this was premeditated, he could have changed his look to easily assimilate back into Delphi after committing the crime with no one being suspicious of him.

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[jillycat]

I don't think those variables are exclusive.

Regardless of HOW the photo was acquired, I believe they have other evidence supporting him as the killer.

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Yes, they have much more than those pictures. I'm saying if this footage is just those two stills and then the person turned to other subject matter (as was suggested upthread), the pictures, in and of themselves, are just pictures.

Different scenario than the footage coming from one of the victim's phone, which may have more associated footage or information, or stationary cameras, which would have more than those two stills.

 

[DeDee]

I'm one of those that thinks it came from a trail cam or security camera. Now, I may be 100% incorrect about that, but it would not have to be mounted the way you describe.

You can see there are plenty of trees where a camera could be mounted at a normal height toward the southeast end of the bridge, which also happens to the closest to personal residences and the direction which the suspect appears to be heading in the picture. (Start from about 7:45 in and watch til the end of the bridge.)

[video=youtube;edK8DJVW890]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edK8DJVW890&t=7m45s[/video]

Nervous wreck after piggybacking on the photographer across the water on that rickety trestle. At 1:14 in the vid, notice the dangerous area of that trestle, until 1:35ish. Entire rr beams are missing. It should be deemed impassable. For that reason, I'd say that being reasonable girls, they did not intend to cross over to get to the other side.

I think that particular afternoon outdoors was meant to be fun and enjoyable for the two friends. It became their worst nightmare but, at what point? When our fellow poster (Thank you!) did the overlap on the two images, it appears the guy is leaning to his left and that is the direction from the lens of the camera that snapped his image. So it stands to reason that he was about to get to her, if LW was photographing. He was near her, att. jmho

It would require a gun pointed at the head to go anywhere with a strange man while passing on that rickety trestle. A knife would get the job done, too, and the young girls were unarmed; completely trapped, really. These two friends were not being malicious or conducting themselves with surreptitious behavior.

The Suspect has been named as participating in the crimes against AW and LG. He is very dangerous. Is it possible that he followed them from their drop off point?

Cheers! To our merry mapmaker, whose name slips my memory, sry.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=40.59197523855241,-86.65199159079896&z=16

 

[MsMarple]

The man in black was either the same man the others saw or it means there was even a 5th person there at the bridge around the time of their murders.

I hope LE has reinterviewed everyone there that day.

I found the link below that describes at least 4 others that were there. I changed the witness name to initials.

"A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.
“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” CME wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

"

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

I find this business about the man in black a bit unsettling. The only people who mentioned him were the teens. I'm not trying to create drama but I really don't know what to make of that. As far as I understand no one else saw him. And nothing more has been said about him by msm or LE.

Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday after noon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw.

"They said that they had said, 'Hi' and he, like, just brushed them off and kept going," Chasity said.

The teens said the man seemed out of place, though Chasity says that "could just be a rumor."

The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently. They circulated his photo Wednesday, saying he would have been on the trail at the same time as the girls.

http://www.wthr.com/article/memorial-grows-as-police-continue-search-for-delphi-girls-killer

 

[TigerLilly]

It seems like LE is grasping at straws at times. Why would the person change their looks when they blend in so well? One thing perplexing me..why haven't they done a composite sketch of the Suspect? they have a witness who saw the girls and a man. And a witness who saw a couple and a man. People are debating if he was wearing a hat, hoodie, scarf, fanny pack etc. wouldn't the witnesses be able to clear that up? that picture could be anyone really.

When my daughter was in college we would go watch her in the marching band. Often I would see a girl in the stands and be positive it was her..long dark hair, a flute, sunglasses...only to find out it was just a girl who had generally the same features. Without more detail my mind filled in the blanks and I would have swore it was my daughter. They need a sketch..they need witness descriptions. they need to release where and what time someone saw him, etc. Not specific crime details but way more about the suspect if they expect him to be found.

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[Maplesyrup]

It wouldn't be easy to trace if he used TOR.

I completely agree. I would think however that the FBI and homeland security would be able to trace very well forensics off the girls phones/computers to find this guy if it was a SM contact. Could he be good at IT and have scrubbed his fake accounts prior to meeting with them? even so the FBI is very very very good at that kind of thing..( unless they're e-mails from the secretary of state of course... just a little humor... no offense meant to anyone.) Also what if the guy is in very very good shape and had a bicycle with a vehicle positioned, much further down the road... quiet and easy to conceal..

 

[Ray_of_hope]

"While investigators have narrowed their search to this one man for the time being, they have expanded the geography of their search. They believe that if the man was from Delphi, someone from the town of roughly 3,000 people would have already identified him."

http://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

 

[Jabarn]

This betrays all better judgement anyone should have these girls went hiking alone, either that, or some kids want to be over involved:

Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday after noon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw.

"They said that they had said, 'Hi' and he, like, just brushed them off and kept going," Chasity said.

LINK http://www.wthr.com/article/memorial-grows-as-police-continue-search-for-delphi-girls-killer

 

[Maplesyrup]

I mentioned it earlier. The Dark Web allows anonymity. [TOR]. Very dark dangerous things occur on this often unknown part of the internet. Sex offenders, pedophiles, any sort of person wanting to hide their identity utilize this. There are many other uses for it.

 

[PingTheRouter]

It wouldn't be easy to trace if he used TOR.

even if you delete your social media accounts, all the police have to do is serve a search warrant or subpoena to the social media head quarters and bingo bango you'll have access to whatever isn't publicly visible, your accounts are never truly deleted just not view-able to the public

and i doubt he'd be using TOR, i mean to do what talk to the girls? i dunno seems far from what teenagers are getting up to, JMO

 

[Hoosier952]

I find this business about the man in black a bit unsettling. The only people who mentioned him were the teens. I'm not trying to create drama but I really don't know what to make of that. As far as I understand no one else saw him. And nothing more has been said about him by msm or LE.



http://www.wthr.com/article/memorial-grows-as-police-continue-search-for-delphi-girls-killer

It bugs me too. Along with the quote from LE that leaves the option of more than just the bridge guy participating in the murder. It seems as short as that trail is from road to bridge, it would be a pretty quick hike if you wanted it to be, so I could see how one person might not run into someone, but someone 10 minutes later might. Maybe the MIB (man in black) came forward to say he was there and was cleared. Or maybe LE had their sights set on BG (bridge guy), so they had no real reason to suspect anyone else involved. Could BG and MIB be connected? Is it odd there were two males on a Monday afternoon in a fairly secluded area that locals didn't recognize? Or are MIB and BG one in the same? I certainly wouldn't describe BG as a man in black in the photos we have, but I suppose he could have changed clothes.

 

[StormyNights]

It wouldn't be easy to trace if he used TOR.

Just curious what TOR is?

 

[PingTheRouter]

Just curious what TOR is?

Tor aims to conceal its users' identities and their online activity from surveillance and traffic analysis by separating identification and routing. It is an implementation of onion routing, which encrypts and then randomly bounces communications through a network of relays run by volunteers around the globe.