IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[SilentRogue]

gitana1, if you're still reading...

In your learned opinion, would LE find someone lying to them as to their alibi in a murder investigation be enough to submit an affidavit to a judge asking for a probable cause search warrant? If so, in your opinion, would it be limited as to specific items or broad and allow LE to look for anything and anywhere? TIA

No.

A search warrant needs to have a purpose for the search. Maybe a search warrant for phone records to validate or invalidate his location at the time of the murders.

However, you're not going to get a judge to sign a warrant to search a house based on someone lying about their alibi.


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[Eileen730]

Jmo ....
Maybe they missed a lot of evidence because they thought the video was a sure thing.
I think more extensive searches of the entire area should be done even at this time. They could have missed something.

 

[Eileen730]

I don't think sex was a motivating factor. I think they saw something illegal happening, which is how they got the footage, and were silenced.

Moo.


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Me too.
Thought that from day one.

 

[Yvettea]

I am copying this from Kyja's post on the previous thread, post #953 :
"According to this article which includes a picture of Abby's mum's fb post, the girls hadn't been heard from since a round 3:30pm. Anna's fb post was at 6:49pm and she stated the girls haven't been in contact for about 3 hours.
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...2026d6e26a6f75"

The stated timing is important. The girls were supposed to have someone be at the pickup point between 3-3:30 pm. They may not have been at the taped crime scene until 2:45-3:00pm, depending on what took place between the bridge and the cs. But if Abby's mother is right about the time, (and I do not doubt her on this - she would have known down to the last minute), then either someone called them at 3:30, causing a phone to ring, or someone showed up at the park at 3:30 and couldn't find the girls (and may have yelled their names or honked the car horn).
All of this leaves very little time for the perp to do whatever was done and then make a clean getaway. It bugs me that LE won't even release a timeline for these things. It sure would clarify a lot of things. However, IF they already know who the killer is, and are waiting for more evidence to arrest him, then I guess they don't feel the need to release anything at all.
MOO

If Libby and Abby were last heard from at 3:30 where were they between 2:30 (when they supposedly encountered BG) and 3:30 when they talked to Abby's mother?

 

[gregjrichards]

At least it's a new photo to sleuth. Let the enlargements begin!!

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Libby's phone looks like an iPhone 6s in gold you can tell by the antenna bands and gold round Touch ID button.

 

[cloudajo]

I am copying this from Kyja's post on the previous thread, post #953 :
"According to this article which includes a picture of Abby's mum's fb post, the girls hadn't been heard from since a round 3:30pm. Anna's fb post was at 6:49pm and she stated the girls haven't been in contact for about 3 hours.
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...2026d6e26a6f75"

The stated timing is important. The girls were supposed to have someone be at the pickup point between 3-3:30 pm. They may not have been at the taped crime scene until 2:45-3:00pm, depending on what took place between the bridge and the cs. But if Abby's mother is right about the time, (and I do not doubt her on this - she would have known down to the last minute), then either someone called them at 3:30, causing a phone to ring, or someone showed up at the park at 3:30 and couldn't find the girls (and may have yelled their names or honked the car horn).
All of this leaves very little time for the perp to do whatever was done and then make a clean getaway. It bugs me that LE won't even release a timeline for these things. It sure would clarify a lot of things. However, IF they already know who the killer is, and are waiting for more evidence to arrest him, then I guess they don't feel the need to release anything at all.
MOO

Thanks. Just my opinion but I think he was gone / out of there by 3:30 or so.

 

[Bemused]

No.

A search warrant needs to have a purpose for the search. Maybe a search warrant for phone records to validate or invalidate his location at the time of the murders.

However, you're not going to get a judge to sign a warrant to search a house based on someone lying about their alibi.


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Given what Sgt. Riley gave as to LE's purpose in executing the SW on March 17, then I'm guessing they received tips that required a close look and possibly some evidence recovered at the crime scene came back from lab analysis. IMO

 

[SilentRogue]

Given what Sgt. Riley gave as to LE's purpose in executing the SW on March 17, then I'm guessing they received tips that required a close look and possibly some evidence recovered at the crime scene came back from lab analysis. IMO

I've been out of the loop for a minute. Can you give me some background?


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[Bemused]

I've been out of the loop for a minute. Can you give me some background?


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http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...h-property-where-delphi-teens-found/99304450/

 

[Falling Down]

From the last thread:

Wasn't there a couple on the trail around 3:00.

A couple were was on the bridge at approximately 3:45 or so, according to a MSM story.

 

[ninij9]

No.

A search warrant needs to have a purpose for the search. Maybe a search warrant for phone records to validate or invalidate his location at the time of the murders.

However, you're not going to get a judge to sign a warrant to search a house based on someone lying about their alibi.


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Is it true SilentRogue, I read that the PC SW in a homicide investigation request has to contain specific items to look for that are directly related to the homicide?

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[MistyWaters]

They go where the evidence leads them. I'd say their vision is focused rather than tunnel because the evidence tells them to focus their attention in a particular direction. The evidence does not lie and it will tell LE the tale. IMO

If so, there goes the old man drunken rage theory. LE has stated various times they believe BG to be middle aged, also who is their suspect.


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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Is it true SilentRogue, I read that the PC SW in a homicide investigation request has to contain specific items to look for that are directly related to the homicide?

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I believe that is true for all search warrants, not just homicide related ones. LE is not allowed to go on fishing expeditions. They have to specify what type of evidence they expect to find.

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[SilentRogue]

Is it true SilentRogue, I read that the PC SW in a homicide investigation request has to contain specific items to look for that are directly related to the homicide?

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For example, if I know my victim was killed with a .22 caliber weapon, and I had a credible tip that John Smith was the shooter, I could petition the judge for a warrant to search his house for a .22 caliber weapon.

In addition, if I knew that my victim had been bound, I could put something in the warrant specifying a search to the effect of "cord, wire, rope, or other similar materials capable of binding hands."

If I went in looking for the gun, but in the process found a note describing John Smith's hatred for the victim, I could quickly request a warrant based on my knowledge that such a note exists and seize that note based on a new warrant.

Does that answer your question?


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[Burnt Toast]

Libby's phone looks like an iPhone 6s in gold you can tell by the antenna bands and gold round Touch ID button.

i agree. that is the phone i have. mine is in white as well.

 

[ninij9]

It looks more like a Samsung Galaxy to me because I don't see the iconic circle button on bottom, IF that's the bottom.

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[GangaMa]

If Libby and Abby were last heard from at 3:30 where were they between 2:30 (when they supposedly encountered BG) and 3:30 when they talked to Abby's mother?

There is no indication that they talked to Abby's mother. She only says "hadn't been in contact" since 3:30pm, and that does not mean that they were in contact with anyone via phone between 2:30 and 3:30. It just means that someone tried to contact them at 3:30 and failed to do so.
If we take Ms. Williams' statement literally, then it means they did speak to someone on the phone at 3:30pm, which would open up a whole new aspect to the case. I am not willing to go there. I think Ms. Williams, acting under extreme duress, put those words up on FB without picking over her grammar. All she really knew for sure, was that the girls were missing and had been for at least 3 hours.
MOO.

 

[Burnt Toast]

If Libby and Abby were last heard from at 3:30 where were they between 2:30 (when they supposedly encountered BG) and 3:30 when they talked to Abby's mother?

so they were last heard from at the time they were suppose to be picked up?? i think it is likely that it was earlier.

 

[ninij9]

For example, if I know my victim was killed with a .22 caliber weapon, and I had a credible tip that John Smith was the shooter, I could petition the judge for a warrant to search his house for a .22 caliber weapon.

In addition, if I knew that my victim had been bound, I could put something in the warrant specifying a search to the effect of "cord, wire, rope, or other similar materials capable of binding hands."

If I went in looking for the gun, but in the process found a note describing John Smith's hatred for the victim, I could quickly request a warrant based on my knowledge that such a note exists and seize that note based on a new warrant.

Does that answer your question?


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It does. So I believe that they were searching for possibly cord, rope, duct tape, clothing etc. But as I understand the law, they have to have reasonable proof to show WHY they believe these items to be present, correct? Otherwise LE would have broader power to obtain said warrants, correct?

Also, could this warrant possibly contain things like rug fibers? Let's said citizen A says POI has a dark blue rug and dark blue rug fibers had gotten transfered to scene via the perp or some other way,?

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[Yvettea]

so they were last heard from at the time they were suppose to be picked up?? i think it is likely that it was earlier.

If someone left at 1:00 and someone attempted to contact them at 3:30 but couldn't, wouldn't they say they were last in contact at one?