IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[BoggLed in Ohio]

They were murdered on February 13 (petition to seal autopsy) after 2-2:30 PM, the last time we know they were alive. They were there all night, in the dark, until discovery a little after noon on 2/14. I'm just not understanding why people are quibbling about the dark. It's a fact they were missing overnight.

I disagree. I think they were murdered quickly after the encounter and the murderer was long gone by 3:30 or so. I know where I think he went and why, but JMO.

LE knows for sure a closely accurate time of death and whether they were moved after they were deceased, i sure wish we had a better handle on the timeline

 

[cloudajo]

I ended up doing the experiment again the next day to get the sunlight on the left side as it was for BG. I also realised that I had not re-created the naked eye view on the first set of pictures I loaded. So, I am glad to have this correct view brought forward.

[snipped for space]

Thanks very much - very helpful to see.

 

[Sir WiggleBottom III]

LE knows for sure a closely accurate time of death and whether they were moved after they were deceased, i sure wish we had a better handle on the timeline

Yes me too, I fail to see the harm in LE at least making the timeline known.

 

[Bemused]

We have vastly differing opinions on what happened, but at this point all any of has is conjecture and speculation. At this point I don't care who's theory is is correct. I'm at the point where some one could post that shortly before last contact a U.f.o. was spotted and they saw BG emerge from and I may consider it plausible.

My comments still stand. The petition to seal says DOD 2/13, and as that's an official document I'll believe its veracity. From 2 PM on 2/13 until midnight, it got dark at what, 5-6PM?, and remained so until sunrise on 2/14, the day they were found just after noon. Hence they were deceased overnight and I expect a lot earlier as in before 3:30 PM on 2/13. We won't know until those facts are released as to approx time and cause.

 

[Matlacha]

Go to:

Images.google.com

put this search string in the box: wilson's cave delphi indiana

I try to avoid Google, but pretty much the same batch of images came up previously using another search engine. As far as I can tell, only the first image, an antique postcard, actually purports to show Wilson's Cave, and all that's visible is Deer Creek (the cave may be hidden in the many deep shadows). Some of the other images show spectacular caves, but seemingly not Wilson's Cave.

On a different topic, the Deer Creek Valley Historic District maps show the enormous variety of outbuildings in the area, many of which are presumably absentee owned. It would be very interesting to know how many were searched.

 

[NightOwl77]

I try to keep in mind that a lot of locals didn't know where this bridge is located, and thus wouldn't know the park and its' surroundings. It reminds me of one of my favorite urban parks, and it's an abandoned RR property, like so many other neat parks. It's there, but not many locals know it's there. A lot of us following the case here on WS probably know the area surrounding the crime scene better than some or even a lot of folks in Delphi. I don't know how long the parking area and the trail from it and leading to the old railroad RoW have existed, but I'll hazard a guess it's under 15 years. The bridge itself still is private property, owned by CSX, which a lot of folks would be averse to walking on for just that simple fact.

I think some or even all of the above facts and factors are things the killer or killers were banking on, in order to carry out this horrific crime. Just the walk to the bridge takes roughly 6-7 minutes, according to this great video put together by Gray Hughes, and in the comments he mentions that he sped up the walking part of the video 10%:

[video=youtube;DZzBCyLSI0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZzBCyLSI0E[/video]

The above video contains clips from at least one WS member (the part of the video showing the "down the hill", and across land to the creek side), plus someone who walked from the parking area to the bridge, and an MSM video, which is at the very end, showing the crime scene.

I agree re: a timeline, and quite frankly it might help jog some memories of people who have information about a possible suspect. MOO is the person or persons involved were long gone by the time the girls were supposed to be picked up, which was roughly 3:30. A gal who was there around the same time said she saw and heard nothing out of the ordinary, which also indicates to me no one was there looking for the girls, yet. So we have a drop off time of 1:45 (according to the latest info I've seen), last SC photo uploaded at 2:07, and somewhere between then and 2:30 they were abducted.

Folks, that's under 45 minutes, which tells me they could have been deceased in under an hour, maybe a little more than an hour, after being dropped off.

The killer or killers had ample time to escape, before anyone would be looking for the girls. So where do you start looking for them? From the parking lot, down the old right-of-way/trail, to the bridge. When was the exact time that anyone was at the bridge looking for them? We don't know.

Emphasis mine, this is a comment under GH's video:



Either the killer was able to see them get on to the bridge, without being noticed, or maybe the girls did see him earlier on, but were not alarmed until he got on to the bridge? Any way you cut it, we're talking a very short time frame.

Some folks have said BG sounds quite calm when saying "down the hill", but I've always thought he sounds quite hurried, like he knows time is of the essence (if that is in fact BG and not someone else saying it)
Thanks for the great vid that documents how short amount of time it takes to get to the bridge from the beginning... I was really of the mind he came from the other side of the bridge and did a turn around, and now I think it would be feasible either way. I thought the distance at the beginning of the trail was far greater.

 

[expatCanada]

This video?

http://www.insideedition.com/headli...rty-where-bodies-of-indiana-hikers-were-found

Someone thought he had a bandaged hand here, but most didn't think so. JMO

I could well be dreaming, but did RL hurt his wrist from his horse's lead shank? I looked for it last night but couldn't find the interview where he has his horse with him.

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[AmateurAnalyst73]

Best post of the day, and sadly, on other, less sanely(and strictly) moderated sites, I've seen everything from aliens to illuminati being mentioned. It's good that here we have a place where we can offer and debate theories without it leading off the rails to wild rumors and insanity(even if my own theory probably borders on the latter).

We have vastly differing opinions on what happened, but at this point all any of has is conjecture and speculation. At this point I don't care who's theory is is correct. I'm at the point where some one could post that shortly before last contact a U.f.o. was spotted and they saw BG emerge from and I may consider it plausible.

 

[Sir WiggleBottom III]

Some folks have said BG sounds quite calm when saying "down the hill", but I've always thought he sounds quite hurried, like he knows time is of the essence (if that is in fact BG and not someone else saying it)
Thanks for the great vid that documents how short amount of time it takes to get to the bridge from the beginning... I was really of the mind he came from the other side of the bridge and did a turn around, and now I think it would be feasible either way. I thought the distance at the beginning of the trail was far greater.

I put his voice down to years of smoking, i know how a two pack habit can make me sound exasperated, hurried and huffing?

 

[Bemused]

Yes me too, I fail to see the harm in LE at least making the timeline known.

They seem to disagree. This is a big burden to find and be able to prove who is responsible. Measure twice--cut once, but the stakes are as high as they get here. I'm still on the sidelines cheering them on to reach the end zone. This guy is not in the wind, IMO.

 

[ShHolmz]

I don't think he's a professional.
He did what he felt he needed to do.
IMO the girls were a threat to him.

I was also wondering....who did not want them returning to school? I read that it was last day of their school break ( iirc) Did they know someone's secret?

 

[Burnt Toast]

LE publicly clears man in bicycle road search. They did this within days of the SW.


Delphi police publicly cleared the man from the search warrant on Bicycle Bridge Road, but threats were posted on social media, prompting authorities to again tell people not to harass the man because he was not involved in the killings.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/24/high-publicity-investigation-means-keeping-low-profile/98214716/

 

[Shiressleuth]

LE knows for sure a closely accurate time of death and whether they were moved after they were deceased, i sure wish we had a better handle on the timeline

This and the place and the COD will only be known to LE so it will help them as witnesses provide details of their movements. The perp(s) will know this and may trip themselves up unwittingly hopefully helping LE to catch him/her/them. ( with luck )

 

[asyousay]

This video?

http://www.insideedition.com/headli...rty-where-bodies-of-indiana-hikers-were-found

Someone thought he had a bandaged hand here, but most didn't think so. JMO

I couldn't see a bandage

But it was interesting to see him walk and he wasn't that steady on his legs and I can't imagine it being any easier at his age to walk the bridge.

 

[Bemused]

We have vastly differing opinions on what happened, but at this point all any of has is conjecture and speculation. At this point I don't care who's theory is is correct. I'm at the point where some one could post that shortly before last contact a U.f.o. was spotted and they saw BG emerge from and I may consider it plausible.

Differing opinions are fantastic and spur people to think outside their preconceived notions so they may consider other scenarios, but it has to be logical as to the few facts we do know. That's how my mind processes information and what I'm accustomed to doing at work. Facts are critical and wild spec is loony to me, IMO.

 

[Razz]

This video?

http://www.insideedition.com/headli...rty-where-bodies-of-indiana-hikers-were-found

Someone thought he had a bandaged hand here, but most didn't think so. JMO

Thanks for this but I didn't see anything.

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[AmateurAnalyst73]

Jumping off the "pristine" subject, what many folks may or may not be aware of is that, short of maybe a lot of bare spots where you know leaves were before, it would be difficult to see much else, even if we were to assume that CSI-types didn't clean up after the bodies were removed. Blood is an organic material, and among other organic material, such as leaves, dirt, etc, it is relatively difficult to see, even when fresh, but especially within hours or days after being left. Anyone who has ever hunted can tell you this.

We don't know what the crime scene looked like as the LEOs discovered it after the girls were found by the volunteer.

RL said in an on camera media interview that it was "pristine". I'll see if I can find that piece but it may take awhile.

ETA here is a transcript. Jean C first said pristine so RL may have just picked up on that.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/20/ptab.01.html

 

[tapsnickles]

Awhile back, someone posted a video clip of an interview with RL on here. He was expressing his shock that such a heinous crime occurred on his property.....in his home. There was some debate as to whether he just misspoke or that was a telling slip of the tongue. Does anyone remember or have that video clip? If so, could you please repost it?


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[Bemused]

I try to avoid Google, but pretty much the same batch of images came up previously using another search engine. As far as I can tell, only the first image, an antique postcard, actually purports to show Wilson's Cave, and all that's visible is Deer Creek (the cave may be hidden in the many deep shadows). Some of the other images show spectacular caves, but seemingly not Wilson's Cave.

On a different topic, the Deer Creek Valley Historic District maps show the enormous variety of outbuildings in the area, many of which are presumably absentee owned. It would be very interesting to know how many were searched.

Did you try YouTube? Maybe hikers took video.

BTW, in google images you can click on any image and you should see "related images" that you can click.

 

[Peace777]

From an article linked to in this thread "The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.
'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].
'You don't know – a 14-year-old girl, she could have had an argument. Things like that go through your mind.
'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html#ixzz4eLnZTwoH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
What makes this grandfather think Libby would run away from the grandma and grandpa's home in Delphi (Mike Patty's)? According to MP everything was rosy and he always made sure to tell Libby " I love you or something to that affect as she left the house) Just wondering as 2 stories are being given by the 2 grandfathers. JMO