IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[Falling Down]

I think it's an interesting comparison as well. And so did LE. I read another article that I now can't find where Drew Collins, Elizabeth's dad, said he called the girl's investigator when he heard about Delphi, and they were already 10 steps ahead of him and had been in touch with Indiana.

This is where some of my faith in LE falls apart, and I know people in LE across several states, and I trust them. They're not infallible, and along those lines sometimes they just don't know, so to speak.

That's why it's up to the public to help. We have to do everything we can to help LE do their job of getting arrests, and bringing perps to justice. All we can do is try to connect some dots, hopefully.

 

[kat913]

One final thought before I go pray for EB to visit...

Suggestions by LE of more than 1 perp have been made on a few different occasions.

I wonder if BG was schizophrenic, and LE thinks he "participated" in the murders (and there might be 2 POI) because they hear 2 sets of voices in the video - whereas it's BG in different voices.

Totally random, but, it's just a thought.

Night all.

WG

Another comforting thought before bed Lol!! Enjoy your Easter everyone!!

 

[Aropizt]

Not saavy on the technical issue so I cannot respond to that, Aropizt.

In fact, I thought that you took pictures somehow through the snapchat app and so I assumed that at 2:07 the girls were at that spot on the bridge. My 17 year old daughter pointed out that the photo could have been taken anytime with the phone and then loaded to the snapchat app. whenever they felt like it. She has some pretty distinct theories about what happened to the girls, including the perp using their phone. But she's still formulating things in her mind. But the snapchat photo sent off alarm bells in her head right away.

Definitely another possibility and yes, on the last thread I posted a photo from the Snapchat app on my phone to show someone the feasibility of the white thing below BG's chin being drawn in using Snapchat and the photo I used was from a hike I took this past fall. I actually had taken it on Snapchat previously and saved it within the app so it was super easy to find and pull up but definitely, like your daughter said you can take a photo from your general photo album on the phone or another app or heck, even a picture you downloaded off the internet or one someone else sent you and upload it on Snapchat. So it's also very possible those photos could've been from a whole different trip, absolutely. I'm not sure I personally believe that but anything is possible.

What a dark thought that perp could've gotten to them sooner than we all suspect and posted those photos himself. I assume LE would likely know if that happened because the assumption then would be those photos were on her phone already. So I would assume through having the phone or cloud access they'd see that. Worth noting that LE has never said anything about the photos not having been taken at that time but now I'm unsure if they've addressed timing of the photos at all. I know for sure, since it's quoted at the beginning of each thread, that LE confirmed there are no people standing at the end of the bridge as many have suspected. So we know they took a long hard look at the images. They'd also know if the clothes Libby is wearing in the photo were what she was wearing that day... though some have also wondered if BG made them take and post the picture or something as well... hmm.


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[Elle*Bee]

Again, I'm bothered by the lack of attention in the MSM and by LE. I heard of the Stratton case only through this one, and it has not been solved, only that reports state that the girls (!) are runaways.

So sad.

Odd...the info shows the Stratton sisters missing since Dec. 14, 2016. However it seems it wasn't the first time they went missing. I did a search on Facebook for "[insert first name] Stratton missing" for each sister and a post from a SS indicated in July 2016 (5 months prior to this disappearance) that they both had been "recovered." Do they have a thread here on WS?

 

[Bemused]

Otto, were you the one who mentioned water, creeks, rivers or was that AmateurSleuth?

In your opinion, is the killer choosing location first and victims second? TIA

 

[Falling Down]

One final thought before I go pray for EB to visit...

Suggestions by LE of more than 1 perp have been made on a few different occasions.

I wonder if BG was schizophrenic, and LE thinks he "participated" in the murders (and there might be 2 POI) because they hear 2 sets of voices in the video - whereas it's BG in different voices.

Totally random, but, it's just a thought.

Night all.

WG

I've wondered the same. Is the voice on the recording really a "voice"? Is it recorded? Is it a schizoid person off their meds?

 

[franci]

If you read the CNN transcript, Jean C (fill-in host) first used the word pristine. RL used it after JC did so it may be he just subconsciously chose the same word. He did seem to be struggling to articulate his thoughts in on camera interviews I've watched.

yes i think youre right in that once a word gets out there it often gets picked up and turns into a sort of definitive truth about a situation. im also thinking that probably by the time Jean C and RL both got access to the murder site LE had done their thing and it may very well have been "pristine" ..but im only guessing because while theres been a bit of coverage on the murders here in Oz, i may not be fully up to date with whats happening.Luckily i have you guys to fill me in

 

[MistyWaters]

Thank you! I will continue to look for similarities simply because I'm curious.

"Perrine says investigators believe any similarities between that case and the recent killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams are a coincidence."

https://www.953mnc.com/2017/03/10/delphi-teen-murders-not-connected-high-profile-iowa-case/

That's quite a coy response, certainly not an outright denial that the two cases are related. Good investigators are free to change their mind at any given time, beliefs are never written in stone. "Any similarities" and "a coincidence", an ambiguous means of eluding to the possibility there's more connections than may be publicly known.

If he had said "we're certain there's no connection", that'd be more definitive.

Very interesting.


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[Falling Down]

so I made this post on Reddit by want to post it here also in hopes locals maybe can help!

So I've read a lot of things that say they believe he parked at the cemetery and that got my mind thinking, what if he was visiting a grave?

Let's say this guy isn't from there but had family there or maybe he use to or still lives there but either way went to visit a grave and decided to go for a walk after and either by luck or cause of stalking he finds the girls (and maybe keeps a kit for when these things happen in his car) and does what he did.

I feel we should look at any graves that had fresh flowers or that died that day or had a bday that day or who has a living spouse who may want to visit on Valentine's Day. Because that could point to the killers last name. Maybe he was angry because they just died recently and lashed out and did the awful thing. But that would be another thing to check for.

Also there is the idea that he works as a groundskeeper or maintenance man grave digger type job. Someone who would have either been working that day or had a reason to be there. He maybe would have the things on him needed for all of it. And both ideas would give him a knowledge of the area. Assuming they visit the grave often. It's worth a shot. Park employees would also be.

One other thought, does anyone else feel the person either was on or had knowledge of the search party? And where they went. Because to me the fact that they looked st the place the bodies later were found makes me think he put them there after he knew they left and knew they'd went there and hoped it meant they take longer to find the bodies.

I also fully believe the owner is a red herring and maybe his property was used for this hence his behavior and the idiot tried to clean it up on fear and the killer knew he would. It would paint the owner as guilty more and I feel the killer wants that. He wants us to look at the owner and not him and it's working. I bet he was even on the search party and maybe he hates the owner so that was a bonus for him. Maybe a relative of the owner who dislikes him hence the quote he made that sounded directly to the person.
Anyway does anyone have any thoughts on the cemetery? I may share this in one of the Facebook groups but hope a local could maybe go there and look at names and dates and for fresh flowers.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

My take is the crime(s) was persecuted in such a way that the perp or perps would have been able to exit the scene virtually unnoticed. It was planned in such a way that the frequency of folks in the park, in the cemetery, etc., was so minimal, even on a non-school day in February, was such that it could be carried out in a very brazen manner.

Imagine the guilt the family members involved must feel.

 

[whiskers]

I read nothing there where LE definitively states, this is not the work of a SK.

OT: Your name absolutely made me laugh. Thank you. Sometimes that's needed.

 

[otto]

Along a similar vein...

Libby's grandfather stated that she fought with the killer, before her death. Like other here, I've wondered if this crime was not only premeditated in nature, but also if there might be an abduction and trafficking aspect to it, but the girls resisted the killer(s) along the way.

We don't know at this point, I guess.

My understanding is that the non-custodial grandfather believed that Libby would put up the fight of her life, and that is so true of everyone who would find themselves in an isolated environment with a murderer.

I believe the murder is premeditated in so far as the suspect is an opportunist looking for vulnerable victims.
There's no trafficking thing happening here ... trafficking and meth are the easy fall backs in so many cases that involve a missing female child, but trafficking is off the table when the bodies are found in less than 24 hours.

 

[otto]

I'm not making myself clear. Did the local police immediately think abduction and call in the feds? I realize they were abducted and murdered as we now know, but in the early hours they were reported missing, when did FBI become involved?

Anyone up to speed on the Iowa case: was only one killer suspected? I'm curious how he managed two. How far were they found from where they disappeared? TIA

If Perrine said no connection, then not relevant. This Abby and Libby case is exhausting enough, but the little Iowa girls case is intriguing. Sad it's not solved, but maybe someday.

Yes, it's loud and clear, and the answer is yes. The FBI was on the scene right away, and the family was searching in the right park right away. They were last seen just before noon, and last seen shortly before 1PM. Their bikes were found near the 1PM sighting, but they were gone. In less than 2 hours they were reported missing and it was taken very seriously right away.

There is no information about one or more abductors. They were found 20 miles from where they disappeared in an area very similar to where the Indiana girls were found.

 

[otto]

Well, they also believe that the girls were likely targeted, and I am not sure there is much evidence of this, but, wth do I know?

Which girls were targeted?
Is there a link?

I haven't read anything about that with either the Iowa or the Indiana case.

 

[douglask1958]

I’m still hung up on the Freedom Bridge that crosses trail walkers over the Hoosier Heartland Highway. Never seen it 100% confirmed where the drop off point was. Could the possibility exist that the girls could have been observed crossing the Freedom Bridge by the perp driving south on the Heartland Highway?

Perhaps, they even noticed the vehicle slowing down while looking at them. After the vehicle traveled under the Freedom Bridge, perhaps the girls noticed the vehicle turning right onto Main St.

As the vehicle continued on Main St., the girls could have still observed it from the bridge and vice versa.

Just off off Main St., the vehicle could make a right turn onto Old IN 25.

Old IN 25 becomes 300N as it loops back around with Freedom Bridge still visible.

In just a matter of minutes, the perp could have continued driving on 300N until reaching the cemetery, parked and worked his way towards the Monon High Bridge, as the girls walked the trail from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge, with the events unfolding from there according to the GH videos.


With a drop off time of 1:30 or so near the Freedom Bridge, the girls could have reached the High Bridge within a half hour via the trail. All IMO. all of this would be null and void if there is a different confirmed drop off point.

 

[Daae]

I'm looking alot into other attempted sexual assaults in Indiana in 2016 and 2017.Has this man ever been found? The woman was assaulted on a trail like Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi Indiana.The woman was not assaulted in Delphi Indiana.The woman was led away from the trail just like Abby and Liberty were. http://cbs4indy.com/2016/08/05/woman-reports-sexual-assault-on-clear-creek-trail-in-bloomington/

Great find!!!

 

[Bemused]

Yes, it's loud and clear, and the answer is yes. The FBI was on the scene right away, and the family was searching in the right park right away. They were last seen just before noon, and last seen shortly before 1PM. Their bikes were found near the 1PM sighting, but they were gone. In less than 2 hours they were reported missing and it was taken very seriously right away.

There is no information about one or more abductors. They were found 20 miles from where they disappeared in an area very similar to where the Indiana girls were found.

Abby and Libby were in the immediate area, less than a mile, but the Iowa girls were taken 20 miles away or at least left there?

 

[jillycat]

That's quite a coy response, certainly not an outright denial that the two cases are related. Good investigators are free to change their mind at any given time, beliefs are never written in stone. "Any similarities" and "a coincidence", an ambiguous means of eluding to the possibility there's more connections than may be publicly known.

If he had said "we're certain there's no connection", that'd be more definitive.

Very interesting.


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I think if they were being coy they would say "We don't know if there's a connection", not "We believe there isn't one."

They've deployed a lot of non-response responses since the beginning, but this seems a bit more straightforward.

 

[Tricia]

OK Everyone,

This thread will be closed shortly.

Tricia

 

[Tricia]

Alright My True Crime Lovelies time to shut it down for the night.

Back open in the morning.

G'night,
Tricia

 

[Greater Than]

Good Morning!