IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

[margarita25]

In thread #54, cindersoot asked: I need opinions, do you think BG is wearing a holster? If a holster would left handed I assume. Does anyone see rivets on the holster?

Sorry for the late response, but I suspect no holster. The gun is very obvious against the fabric of the jacket, and its weight seems to be pulling on the fabric, suggesting it's carried in a jacket pocket. A real expert might even be able to guess the make and model (I'm not an expert, but the shape doesn't look right for a 1911 or Glock 20/21, though the gun is perhaps as large as those models). A holstered gun would not normally be so visible under a jacket. With a holster, the weight of the gun would be supported either by the belt (belt holster) or the neck and shoulders (shoulder holster), allowing the jacket fabric to drape over--and better conceal--the pistol.

My opinion here is that with the jacket being possibly nylon like a windbreaker it is still able to easily frame and show the outline of the weapon, which imo is secured via a body holster, posted upstream.

This holster also explains the facing direction of the gun, imo. I suspect a larger caliber weapon such as a 40, 45 or 9mm. Moo.

 

[margarita25]

Tricia had a podcast with Jim Clemente regarding these murders. He reccomended reading the book
Protecting the Gift.
http://gavindebecker.com/resources/book/protecting_the_gift/

Thanks for posting, DeDee. (We are missing so much I feel like without Foxfire here).

About the book:

"In Protecting the Gift, Gavin de Becker shares with readers his remarkable insight into human behavior, providing them with a fascinating look at how human predators work and how they select their targets and most important, how parents can protect their children. He offers the comforting knowledge that, like every creature on earth, human beings can predict violent behavior. In fact, he says, parents are hardwired to do just that.

Protecting the Gift provides a direct look at the strategies of predators, a study of how children are victimized, and a look at why. Understanding human violence empowers parents to protect their children more effectively. De Becker asks readers at the outset, “Of all the strategies you might bring to protecting your children, could ignorance about violence possibly be an effective one?”

 

[FrostedGlass]

I've seen and ventured to a quite a few, but in tn alab areas, there were creek houses on some and not on others, could just be a regular creek house of someone's at sometime, I thought I saw one in a photo or vid.at one point but I'd have to find

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Thanks. I have never heard of a creek house. I looked on Google maps and was unable to find anything that would fit that description.

The neighbors of the house at the end of the private drive have a little cabin in the woods near the creek. Is that what he's calling a creek house? Is there another one like it on the west side of RL's land?

 

[Lilowlet]

Thanks. I have never heard of a creek house. I looked on Google maps and was unable to find anything that would fit that description.

The neighbors of the house at the end of the private drive have a little cabin in the woods near the creek. Is that what he's calling a creek house? Is there another one like it on the west side of RL's land?

Possible he points I think in the general area of it, iirc. Not sure. Others are better at the land and building details of this case than I. I'm curious too.[emoji6]

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[Falling Down]

The handgun shape reminds me of an H&K (Heckler & Koch) VP9 SK

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Or a S&W M&P gun.

JMO.

 

[No it's not]

Good eye I wonder if nins(think it was nins) photo pointing out flowers I believe I heard where families where able to leave them at the cs matches up with this.

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That was jethro4WS's images. -Nin

 

[M. Kay]

Briefly I'm expressing sincere thank you to everyone participating in this search for justice. I'm a long-time reader of WS, a very new registered user, and not tech savvy. The photos, links to media, and diverse discussions all intrigue. I'm content to consider thoughtfully what is offered here, aware that other opportunities online are (for the most part) shockingly disrespectful of the gravity of the tragedy. Here I find company which keeps me coming back. Feeling especially grateful to the moderators who shape this context for serious considerations.

 

[gregjrichards]

I think the best strategy is to run in different directions. My son and a friend were at a park late one evening when they were accosted by a gang who told my son and friend they were going to kill them. My son and friend split up, ran in different directions even though it was dark and they were in a treed area. Sadly, the gang chose to go after my son, but his friend got away and called police. Helicopters were in the area within minutes. My son managed to run to a restaurant and get help, but he was injured - no long lasting injuries.

Splitting up means one can get help. Even though this suspect in Indiana may have had a gun, I don't think he would have used it because it would have attracted too much attention.

This must have been a very frightening experience for your son and his friend thank goodness both survived.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Yes I saw the photo. The yellow tape on the edge doesn't necessarily mean the bodies were placed next to it and we don't know how large an area was taped off. There are other photos with crime scene tape that appear to be higher above the river.

Regardless, even if it was level and 50 to 60 away from the river, that still proves nothing. If the searchers were looking along both sides of the river, knowing there was a treacherous bridge going over it, imo they were looking for signs of an accidental fall into the river and possible drowning. Whenever there's a river and missing people, that's the first thing that's always thought of, in my world anyway.


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To see the extent of the crime scene where the girls were found the following are helpful.

First is the WXIN Getty video. In order of appearance in the video you will see: (1) The East side of the crime scene looking toward the west. (2) The West side of the crime scene looking east - pans from south to north. and (3) a view from the Southwest corner of the crime scene looking north.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/v...phi-historic-trails-on-news-footage/645276720

Second is a video from RTV6 reporter Rich Van Wyk's twitter feed. This video was taken at the South side of the crime scene. It pans counterclockwise across the crime scene. If you pause the video as it pans you can see the crime scene tape on the East, North and West.

[video=twitter;832259967658889217]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/832259967658889217[/video]

And the third is the image of the crime scene taken from the top of the hill with RL's dog in it and the cameraman down below. I have posted that in a previous post so I won't post that again. In that image you can see the crime scene tape of the East side off to the left through the trees. The crime scene tape on the West side is harder to make out but where you see the crime scene tape in front of the cameraman and follow it to the right all the way until it seems to stop, but actually it wraps around that tree on the right end of the crime scene (as we see it in the image) and continues south toward the creek.

 

[otto]

This must have been a very frightening experience for your son and his friend thank goodness both survived.

It was nasty. His friend called me after calling police and, when I phoned my son, the people who were attacking him answered. Terrifying. They stole his phone - least of my concerns. I went to the scene the following day and there was blood all over the sidewalk where they had him on the ground and were kicking him in the head just before people in the restaurant helped him. Things like that happen in the blink of an eye and for no reason other than some people are simply not normal.

 

[kat913]

Jethro, thanks for all the videos and descriptions to go along with it....helps me so much. :bowdown:

PS this goes for everyone who has ever explained the terrain; videos; bridge or creek....do not want to leave my thanks out for all the visual aids!

And of course Skibaboo's case map!!

 

[MistyWaters]

The theory I presently am thinking about has one perpetrator who has spotted the innocent girls, laughing, having fun. I don't want to make it into something overly morbid but if I leave out the emotional element it makes no sense whatsoever.


He carries a gun and the reason he's there is maybe to target practise or shoot a few birds to relieve the tension, the violent impulses, he feels because he's extremely angry at his wife/female boss/sister. At some point he notices nobody else around except for the girls. They head off the other direction and then increase their pace, as if they're afraid of him. The ground is uneven and rough. For no particular reason other than it brings to mind the resentment he feels from his wife/female boss/sister, it makes him angry the way the girls are fleeing from him.

Maybe at first his intent is just to scare them but then something snaps. He begins to enjoy the feeling of control that he has over these two young females and continues to follow them. He feels powerful. They're trying to climb the steep banks where they know there's acreages, roads and a better chance they can get away. One of girls stumbles where a rotted root has left a hole in the ground and twists her ankle. Both of them freeze, he's coming closer. He aims and fires quickly. Twice.

But where my theory fails.....wouldn't there be a lot of blood on the ground at the crime scene?


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[Lilowlet]

That was jethro4WS's images. -Nin

Sorry thanks Jethro!!

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[MistyWaters]

It is the border of RL and the property owner west of RL's land. The property line runs through the middle. From the Getty video (WXIN) at the 30 second mark you can see what it looks like near the southern end (below is a screen cap). At the northern end is the Southwest corner of the cemetery.

The girls were found East of this location, as seen in this media photo (you can see RL's dog).

It is very likely that the location within that crime scene where the girls were found is where the red arrow is pointing in the image below.

That location was determined from matching up trees from this video posted on RTV6 reporter Rich Van Wyk's twitter feed which shows where family and friends were allowed to place flowers. I highly suspect that is the location where the girls were found.

[video=twitter;833751458885537793]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/833751458885537793[/video]

Do you think then that's the area between the red arrows, with high steep river banks on either side?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=110934&d=1487904186


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[DeDee]

Thanks. I have never heard of a creek house. I looked on Google maps and was unable to find anything that would fit that description.

The neighbors of the house at the end of the private drive have a little cabin in the woods near the creek. Is that what he's calling a creek house? Is there another one like it on the west side of RL's land?

Let's nip this one in the bud. RL says the word "brick". He points toward the brick house.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Let's nip this one in the bud. RL says the word "brick". He points toward the brick house.

Wow! I have listened to him say that so many times and I never heard "brick." Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[liltexans]

Briefly I'm expressing sincere thank you to everyone participating in this search for justice. I'm a long-time reader of WS, a very new registered user, and not tech savvy. The photos, links to media, and diverse discussions all intrigue. I'm content to consider thoughtfully what is offered here, aware that other opportunities online are (for the most part) shockingly disrespectful of the gravity of the tragedy. Here I find company which keeps me coming back. Feeling especially grateful to the moderators who shape this context for serious considerations.

Welcome to Websleuths!

:welcome:

 

[WebSight]

<snip>

I think it's an act of kindness to let people know that a separate thread has been created to discuss all things related to the police photo of the suspect ... not an act of policing others. If we don't share this information in the thread, how will people who have been away for a couple of days know about the new discussion thread?

I think you misunderstood my meaning completely as I must have misunderstood yours. It is so hard on a forum because we cannot discern tone. To me simply letting someone know about a new thread might start with something like "Hey, you might be interested in the new thread..." but you simply said "Discussion about the photos has been moved here..." That sounded differently to me than you obviously meant it to be taken. I am sorry if I did not understand that you were simply trying to inform.:truce:

 

[Ember123]

Briefly I'm expressing sincere thank you to everyone participating in this search for justice. I'm a long-time reader of WS, a very new registered user, and not tech savvy. The photos, links to media, and diverse discussions all intrigue. I'm content to consider thoughtfully what is offered here, aware that other opportunities online are (for the most part) shockingly disrespectful of the gravity of the tragedy. Here I find company which keeps me coming back. Feeling especially grateful to the moderators who shape this context for serious considerations.

Agreed! I'm a night RN, often chec in here 3 am Off Clock for the fellowship, sharing ideas.. Justice for these girls!!!

 

[Yvettea]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=110934&d=1487904186

Is this the crime scene, the area below the black line? It looks perfect for BG's purposes. Surrounded by steeper hills and the creek they would be 'boxed in.'

Why bother crossing the creek where it is shallow? BG would have been prepared. All the better if the girls get wet. Maybe they 'fell' during the crossing and were drenched. They were probably wet, cold and tired, and if they were lured to go willingly they were definitely beginning to realize things weren't going well.

BG must be a diabolical evil person. I hope with all my heart he was a complete stranger and the girls weren't betrayed by someone they knew in any way.

Innocents lost. Beautiful children, so much lay ahead of them. I'm so glad they are building the ballpark in their memory. They should never be forgotten.