IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

[Spellbound]

To see the extent of the crime scene where the girls were found the following are helpful.

First is the WXIN Getty video. In order of appearance in the video you will see: (1) The East side of the crime scene looking toward the west. (2) The West side of the crime scene looking east - pans from south to north. and (3) a view from the Southwest corner of the crime scene looking north.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/v...phi-historic-trails-on-news-footage/645276720

Second is a video from RTV6 reporter Rich Van Wyk's twitter feed. This video was taken at the South side of the crime scene. It pans counterclockwise across the crime scene. If you pause the video as it pans you can see the crime scene tape on the East, North and West.

[video=twitter;832259967658889217]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/832259967658889217[/video]

And the third is the image of the crime scene taken from the top of the hill with RL's dog in it and the cameraman down below. I have posted that in a previous post so I won't post that again. In that image you can see the crime scene tape of the East side off to the left through the trees. The crime scene tape on the West side is harder to make out but where you see the crime scene tape in front of the cameraman and follow it to the right all the way until it seems to stop, but actually it wraps around that tree on the right end of the crime scene (as we see it in the image) and continues south toward the creek.

I was quite surprised at how loud the sound of water is.

 

[Spellbound]

It was nasty. His friend called me after calling police and, when I phoned my son, the people who were attacking him answered. Terrifying. They stole his phone - least of my concerns. I went to the scene the following day and there was blood all over the sidewalk where they had him on the ground and were kicking him in the head just before people in the restaurant helped him. Things like that happen in the blink of an eye and for no reason other than some people are simply not normal.

Otto, thank you for sharing this. I am so very sorry it happened to your son, and glad he was OK after some healing, But what a traumatic event to go through, for the boys and your families.

 

[Lilowlet]

Let's nip this one in the bud. RL says the word "brick". He points toward the brick house.

Woohoo creek houses are a thing though! Thanks for clearing it up in this situation 😗

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[Lilowlet]

Regardless of photos, the bodies were said to be found 50 to 60 feet away from the river. If searchers are looking for drowning victims (what other reason is there to search along side a river) and in total darkness, that's not real close in my opinion.

But I think I'm missing why anyone is suggesting the bodies were moved, without knowing the rest of the theory. Do you know what that might be? Maybe why it matters would then make more sense.

Well if it did happen, imo anything crazy is possible, if think it would be to leave further evidence elsewhere, not at the cs were they were found. Or who knows what kind of evidence just guessing imo always and good question.

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[Lilowlet]

Absolutely ... I've found the best way to deal with the written word is to give the benefit of the doubt, but there are times when that eludes me ... and I am the first to admit that I'm not always the best when it comes to gentle tone ... more about communicating info than wrapping it properly. My apologies, and I totally understand why what I wrote came across as it did.

Thanks for reminding me to be careful with how it is said, and not just what is said.

*hugs* Otto

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[Shiressleuth]

BBM

should be:

by Jethro4WS

:seeya:-Nin

Sorry Jethro and TY Nin.

 

[margarita25]

( Taxidermies? :thinking: )

 

[No it's not]

I'm not all that surprised there hasn't been much headway in this case.

Why are you not surprised?

-Nin

 

[margarita25]

For those of us who agree BG islikely a hunter/fisherman, how can we more productively explore this/ expand on this...?

 

[DB90]

I just have a sneaking suspicion that RL was involved. But I also think that BG isn't RL that they knew each other and really both took chances in this horrible crime. Maybe BG was the one who cornered them and led them to that spot where RL was waiting, thus making it easier for both of them to be manipulated. Whatever happened it was a horrible crime and I am hoping there is a breakthrough soon. Those poor girls, I pray their families find peace as well as their souls. Something will come up, I feel like when it comes to a crime as horrible as this something- or someone will break.

All IMO*



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[Jabarn]

I was quite surprised at how loud the sound of water is.

Given the large area taped off, it makes sense to me, and IMO, either the girls were separated by a few feet or other items of evidentiary value were found. It could also be those were the easiest trees to tie the crime scene tape around.

Glad so many of you here in the past few days have been thinking about this and going back and looking at what the evidence is.

Also, the motive. What in the world?

Another question I know we all have is was whether or not the girls were forced to cross the creek (or tried to run away from the POI) to where their bodies were found, whether they were led up the north side of the bridge and back down to the final crime scene, whether they were driven away and brought back, or whether an immediate crime happened on the bridge side of the creek and their bodies were placed or they were led on the other side.

Have any of you seen this? I suppose it has been posted here, and I likely missed it. It's part of the series of stories the Indy Channel has been covering this week:

http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/delphi-daughters-a-360-tour-of-the-monon-high-bridge

It gives me the shudders to even think about walking across this bridge, must less the thoughts of the suspect thinking it would be a good idea to approach his prey here.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Regardless of photos, the bodies were said to be found 50 to 60 feet away from the river. If searchers are looking for drowning victims (what other reason is there to search along side a river) and in total darkness, that's not real close in my opinion.

But I think I'm missing why anyone is suggesting the bodies were moved, without knowing the rest of the theory. Do you know what that might be? Maybe why it matters would then make more sense.

Depends on the motive really. If the motive is sexual then abducting from under bridge by vehicle to a safer location could be one reason. Bringing them back to the creek via the cemetery may also have been easier in some respects as noone would have noticed due to all the search activity along the trails and bridge areas. The perp may also have wanted them found. The main reason it matters is just because it is an unknown at the moment IMO.

 

[No it's not]

Answering my question, yes appears so. The steep banks then are on either side.

Post #96 by NIN. This is an excellent reference map.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Liberty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-13/page7

Thank you. I made another map of the approximate main crime scene (CS) location looking at it from the South side. The bridge would be located behind the SW corner of the map:

The reason I say main crime scene: If you re-watch the RTV6 helicopter video on FB, you will notice CS workers and/or searchers working almost the entire area.

There are not only the divers and the folks, who are walking through the creek, the cars parked on the S side of the creek on that access road, there are also people dressed in white searching the area around the bridge.

There are police barricading the street in the vicinity of the Freedom bridge area, as well as all other accesses. The video also shows white (police) cars parked in most driveways of the surrounding private properties.

This was one big crime scene IMO with at least one main CS and perhaps a second one around the SE end of the bridge.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Totally understand. I still haven't heard a reasonable (to me) explanation of WHY the bodies would be brought back to that location.

I wonder if there was some crime, objection to, or accident associated with the construction of that old bridge, or the clearing of the land for it or the surrounding trails.

Perhaps the killer has a connection with that spot, and maybe that bit of history predates us all.

Were there houses there in the 1900s? Was it private property? Did a worker perhaps suffer injuries in the bridge construction? Was the area open to the public before the trails existed? Was there any civil engineering done in that particular area? Were people displaced?

Apologies if this is an old discussion. I can't keep up with you guys. [emoji4]

 

[Jabarn]

Thank you. I made another map of the approximate main crime scene (CS) location looking at it from the South side. The bridge would be located behind the SW corner of the map:

The reason I say main crime scene: If you re-watch the RTV6 helicopter video on FB, you will notice CS workers and/or searchers working almost the entire area.

There are not only the divers and the folks, who are walking through the creek, the cars parked on the S side of the creek on that access road, there are also people dressed in white searching the area around the bridge.

There are police barricading the street in the vicinity of the Freedom bridge area, as well as all other accesses. The video also shows white (police) cars parked in most driveways of the surrounding private properties.

This was one big crime scene IMO with at least one main CS and perhaps a second one around the SE end of the bridge.

All IMO

-Nin

Thanks, Nin. I, too, think there are two crime scenes. One where a possible assault happened, and the second one, where the girl's bodies were discovered.

 

[Rott Mom]

This video is helpful in seeing the searchers - trained and untrained. You will see that decent flashlights were being used.

At the 29 second mark you can hear and see the creek (to the right). The elevation above the creek is not high. That portion of the video was very likely captured on the same flat area where the girls were found. I haven't determined the specific location on the flat area yet but it is either at the western end of the flat area before you would get to the girls headed East or more east and either almost due south of where the girls were or further east and already past the location where the girls were found.

I am working on finding the Sycamore tree (thanks NIN) in that scene at 29 seconds - those round reddish things hanging are found on Sycamore trees. The tree is low so it is either a young tree or a bent over tree.

The yellow reflection in the water is light reflecting off the yellow reflective parts of the firefighters jackets/pants. Other parts of the video will also show searchers and all of this activity appears to be taken on the North side of the creek and East of the bridge based on the known topography of the area.

[video=youtube;Kop2LjEGm_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kop2LjEGm_8[/video]

In regards to this video, at about the 2:47 mark, Eric Williams starts to say "victims". Please watch again and let me know. This was before these girls were found. Maybe I'm hearing things.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo nothing in RL's 70+ years indicates he would murder children. Seems like he would have had some history of viewing *advertiser censored*, peeping, etc...at the very least. Poor man is an alcoholic who tends to choose the wrong words when speaking under duress and has the misfortune of living where the bodies were found. Yes, he is a criminal in his way but not this way.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Does anyone have anything further on the incident last night about a guy flagging down LE to report something about the case? It was in Grant County IIRC. Anyone have a link?

 

[Nemellotus]

I feel LE has absolutely no clues whatsoever as to who has committed this crime. They have a pic, they have a voice. But still they cannot solve this crime. I feel they are not experienced and messed up early on. The FBI has dwindled down. The search has now been downsized. This crime will not be solved. They refuse to release any other evidence that the public may be able to use to assist in solving the crime. Meanwhile they continue to hold on to clues or evidence selfishly and time goes by day by day. This horrible crime really needs to be solved... not preserved forever.


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[Shiressleuth]

Seems like he would have had some history of viewing *advertiser censored*, peeping, etc...at the very least.

SBM
How do you come up with this exactly?