IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #56

[cluciano63]

How long was Libby homeschooling? What grade did she start public school?

Was she? I thought they had a saved snow day off from public school.

 

[rosieone]

Was she? I thought they had a saved snow day off from public school.

That's what I thought. IIRC the girls were off school for a built in snow day.


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[MistyWaters]

Was she? I thought they had a saved snow day off from public school.

I have no idea about homeschooling either but there's numerous media references about Libby's attendance at a school. Even her Obituary mentions it.

"Arika Gibson said she first met Libby in kindergarten. As teens and classmates at Delphi Community Middle School, they remained close; they played volleyball and softball together, and this year, they were in science bowl, she said.

"[Libby] was my locker buddy," Arika told ABC News. "We were by each other every single day ... she was considered my twin because we look so much alike. My dad, her grandpa and grandma got us mixed up."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shaken-dou...orries-killer-evade-justice/story?id=46019975

Is there a link anywhere suggesting she was homeschooled? If not, I don't think that's so.

 

[Mom24]

This has to be someone from out of town, but how did he know he'd have an opportunity for victims on that day? And yet he seemed quite calm when ordering them down the hill, like maybe he knew them in some fashion? Did the girls play sports on a team where they may have come into contact with another parent from another town, or other male relative? I heard a southern twang to the voice, almost like a Carolina accent but not a deep south. Could it be a visiting relative? Any funerals or weddings in the area that would have drawn someone in from out of state? I keep coming back to, how did he know there was going to be anyone on that trail that day. He had this so well planned, he had to have known and been prepared.

 

[No it's not]

So, I am looking for the thread in the located persons thread and I see ARRESTED in the Abby and Libby thread name! My eyes literally explode and after a few seconds I realize, it did not say that..I don't know, what I saw, but now I am cleaning up all that mess. From the explosion.

Waiting for an arrest now..

-Nin

 

[JLSChook]

So, I am looking for the thread in the located persons thread and I see ARRESTED in the Abby and Libby thread name! My eyes literally explode and after a few seconds I realize, it did not say that..I don't know, what I saw, but now I am cleaning up all that mess. From the explosion.

Waiting for an arrest now..

-Nin

Cleaning up after an eye explosion is definitely not an enjoyable project.

Waiting with you.

:waiting:

 

[BoltzmanBrain]

I wonder about this too. Also, being a victim of family member SA myself at age 5 or 6 which resurfaced to my memory when I was about age 12, and again a victim of SA by non-family acquaintance in my teens, I wonder if Libby or Abby were victim (s) too and the killer felt he had to silence them before they spoke up about it? Being best friends, one may have shared this info with the other so both knew, had talked about it, maybe the perp of SA against them knew they were talking and decided to shut them both up before they got him into big trouble? Did Libby or Abby babysit for anyone? Do any yard or farm or pet care work fof anyone? Sell or fundraise to any neighbors? Have older family members who may have victimized them in the past? Maybe a "trusted" person had taken advantage of them and they were nearing ready to report it? Hence Libby filming him when he appeared, knowing he was an abuser? It happens to girls of all ages, sometimes repeatedly, especially if there is no Dad present to protect them. Thoughts???

So sorry this happened to you Ember. I can't imagine the lifelong damage that this does. I often wonder where this God of ours is when children are being sexually assaulted, abused and murdered. I can't help but wish death on BG and those like him


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[Jethro4WS]

i'm still curious what that has to do with this case?

Well for me, it gives me a better understanding of whether or not it is more likely that the girls were much more familiar with the bridge and the surrounding area than BG would be. I am of the opinion that it is extremely likely that the girls were more familiar with the area. That means that the girls at the time of the encounter with BG had that tactical advantage on their side. They would know not only where they were but also where they could go and how to get there the quickest if running was an option. Abby may have known some or even all of those people in those neighboring homes by name, for example, and even whether they would likely be home.

This is the reason why I have always thought there had to be more than one perpetrator because I can't see what kept the girls from making a run for it considering the distance away BG was in the video at the time Libby was alarmed enough to start recording. They weren't physically trapped by a fence or impenetrable forest - there is a well worn path that continues South from the bridge as well as the path down the hill to the road.

And like I said previously, it would make things flow much easier in terms of the timeline of their activities - not the murderer(s) - for that day if they were dropped at Abby's rather than anywhere else especially if it is true that the drop-off/pick-up location were the same.

 

[Daae]

This has to be someone from out of town, but how did he know he'd have an opportunity for victims on that day? And yet he seemed quite calm when ordering them down the hill, like maybe he knew them in some fashion? Did the girls play sports on a team where they may have come into contact with another parent from another town, or other male relative? I heard a southern twang to the voice, almost like a Carolina accent but not a deep south. Could it be a visiting relative? Any funerals or weddings in the area that would have drawn someone in from out of state? I keep coming back to, how did he know there was going to be anyone on that trail that day. He had this so well planned, he had to have known and been prepared.

I agree with you that either:
1) He had knowledge that the girls were going to be there. Perhaps he overheard a conversation or knew one of the family members. He came prepared!
or
2) He had knowledge that this was a probable spot to find a victim. He came prepared!

The backpack comment by LE leads me to the believe he left part of his kill kit behind. Tape, rope, ...something that was not apparently on him in the picture.

Why Delphi???? Perhaps he evaluated it while traveling highway 25 which runs between Logansport and Lafayette.

There is a military base in Logansport which would draw men from other states + military training.

 

[Confusion]

Has LE damaged the case by arresting others along the way and making such a spectacle out of RL? If someone has information about the case, they are well aware that they're background and activities are going to be gone through with a fine-tooth comb by LE and social media. So, (for instance) the guy that grows some pot in his basement and suspects his cousin... why would he get involved?

Did LE save the community from a drunk while allowing a killer to run loose?

Just a quick comment, I don't believe LE has been arresting people who give them tips; I'm fairly sure that it is people that they checked out because of tips that were arrested for other matters. MOO

Nothing to do with the quote---
Even though they were close to AW's house, I think she may have been planning to go back to LG's house, maybe until her mother got home from work. I'm guessing that they haven't said which relative went to pick them up in part because of the vicious people out here (not necessarily on WS) who would start making accusations and trying to build a case against the person. It has been said that they were dropped off at one of the trail entrances, and (I believe) were supposed to be picked up at the same spot. I'd expect them to plan to go back to LG's home until after dinner and then someone would take AW home. Also MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

I get the impression that the Delphi trail system is quite an established local attraction. However it presently ends at the bridge. Whether or not the girls were supposed to cross the length of it, well we just don't know. Walking along country roads, probably gravel, with vehicles travelling along, many parents would see that to be quite different than established trails. MOO

The properties that are close to the trail have been indicated on maps from time to time. None of these are Abby's. While I don't know the actual distance, a couple of miles in the country is not close. Nowhere have I noticed it mentioned anything about the girls walking to Abby's home so I'm not sure why the possibility arises?

From what I understand the train track continues after the SE end of the bridge, for a long way, so is that part of the trail also or is that an unofficial trail too, like the bridge? Also, the road under that SE end would be a very quiet road with virtually no traffic as it ends as a private drive. That and the old railway would be pleasant walks and much safer than that rickety old bridge IMO. This is obviously what CSX think too as they have now closed it. Without knowing where the girls were exactly dropped and walked that day it is difficult to theorize.

 

[asyousay]

I think the reason why the girls did not run straight away is that Libby was at the end of bridge and Abby was on the bridge nearer to BG.

So Libby could not run without Abby as she would of been abandoning her with BG.

 

[rsd1200]

It is puzzling that both who dropped them off and was supposed to pick them up and the location is a "secret" LE prefers to keep. I can't imagine for the life of me just how it is LE expects that "only the killer(s)" would know such information when to me it is entirely doubtful that the killer(s) would know either.

For what it is worth, I expect that the girls were actually dropped off at Abby's home and that only Libby was going to be picked up at Abby's home between 3:00 and 3:30pm. At the Southeast end of the bridge the girls were closer to Abby's home than they were to where that small entry area to the trails is located on 300N. If that were the drop-off and pick-up location then whoever picked them up would them have to drive almost 4 miles all the way around to get back to Abby's home that is 8/10ths of a mile from the Southeast end of that bridge (even closer as the crows fly rather than walking the road). Unless the girls were going somewhere else after their visit to the bridge it doesn't make sense to me that all that excess driving would be done. And it would also mean that any overnight bag that Abby might have had when staying at Libby's the previous night would have to still be in that car or that is the backpack that LE is looking to find because it isn't evident in the Snapchat photos.

Plus, in terms of the time line if the girls were dropped at Abby's home then the time it would take to walk to the bridge, cross it Northward, and then start back across Southward and take those Snapchat photos at 2:07pm would all fit very well without having 45-50 minutes of unknown activity to wonder about if they had been dropped on the North side.

The drop-off/pick-up location being Abby's home makes the most sense to me.

It is absolutely critical, in my opinion, to know exactly where Abby lived and where Libby lived when trying to work this case.

.
Is it against TOS to know where the victims lived? Honest question. I always find the address of the victim(s) of a crime to see what the lay of their land/neighborhood looked like/distance from crime scene, etc... I don't really call that sleuthing, it's just something you need.


It says that Abby lived w/her mother and her maternal grandmother, and that grandmother's name is listed in the obituary.
http://fox17online.com/2017/03/22/tragedy-connects-small-towns-2-teens-murders-unsolved/

Libby lived with her father & stepmother. They raised her.
http://people.com/crime/grandfather...indiana-girl-cant-imagine-why-she-was-killed/

Her mother lives in Kentucky. Her grandparents saw her a lot but she didn't live with them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

 

[Eileen730]

I think the reason why the girls did not run straight away is that Libby was at the end of bridge and Abby was on the bridge nearer to BG.

So Libby could not run without Abby as she would of been abandoning her with BG.

I'd like to know how much audio they do have. Is get down the hill all they have?
If the audio was longer I'm prettily sure the girls would have mentioned a name if they knew who it was.
Now they either didn't mention anyone and the audio continued capturing the entire tragedy or it was cut off ...
If the audio ended after get down the hilll it could be someone they knew.

Jmo

 

[Jethro4WS]

.
Is it against TOS to know where the victims lived? Honest question. I always find the address of the victim(s) of a crime to see what the lay of their land/neighborhood looked like/distance from crime scene, etc... I don't really call that sleuthing, it's just something you need.


It says that Abby lived w/her mother and her maternal grandmother, and that grandmother's name is listed in the obituary.
http://fox17online.com/2017/03/22/tragedy-connects-small-towns-2-teens-murders-unsolved/

Libby lived with her father & stepmother. They raised her.
http://people.com/crime/grandfather...indiana-girl-cant-imagine-why-she-was-killed/

Her mother lives in Kentucky. Her grandparents saw her a lot but she didn't live with them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

While they were missing, I think it would be okay to have posted where the girls lived or plotted those locations on a map relative to the bridge location. However, once they were found and once it was a crime then the victims and their families become off limits - no matter how important the information discovered about them or even basic things like where they lived - become off limits. Hence, all of the TOS dancing.

 

[rsd1200]

I'd like to know how much audio they do have. Is get down the hill all they have?
If the audio was longer I'm prettily sure the girls would have mentioned a name if they knew who it was.
Now they either didn't mention anyone and the audio continued capturing the entire tragedy or it was cut off ...
If the audio ended after get down the hilll it could be someone they knew.

Jmo

.
I think she might have gotten more, and, he either didn't realize the recorder was on, or just didn't care. I think he very likely didn't realize that his image, and audio, had been sent into space, though. He probably thought that by ditching the phone, he'd gotten rid of that bit of evidence.

 

[Eileen730]

.
I think she might have gotten more, and, he either didn't realize the recorder was on, or just didn't care. I think he very likely didn't realize that his image, and audio, had been sent into space, though. He probably thought that by ditching the phone, he'd gotten rid of that bit of evidence.

I thought that too. Now I'm starting to think this is someone they knew but that pic is not clear enough to nail him.
There is a huge reason nothing at all has been released. Jmvoo
Maybe LE has a poi they just don't have evidence

 

[asyousay]

I'd like to know how much audio they do have. Is get down the hill all they have?
If the audio was longer I'm prettily sure the girls would have mentioned a name if they knew who it was.
Now they either didn't mention anyone and the audio continued capturing the entire tragedy or it was cut off ...
If the audio ended after get down the hilll it could be someone they knew.

Jmo

I think they have quite a bit of audio as if Libby put the phone in her pocket she wouldn't of switched it off.

But unfortunately audio does not help narrow down who the perp is. I also think the crime escalated quickly which is why LE won't release anything more.

 

[ab01]

I believe if they are talking about the trailhead they mean the parking area on the other side of The Hoosier Heartland highway (across the Freedom Bridge).

I interpreted it to mean the parking area on 300n which is the parking for the monon bridge trailhead but maybe I'm wrong....moo


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[Eileen730]

I think they have quite a bit of audio as if Libby put the phone in her pocket she wouldn't of switched it off.

But unfortunately audio does not help narrow down who the perp is. I also think the crime escalated quickly which is why LE won't release anything more.

I'd think there would have had to be a lot of talking . Crying and struggling
Unless they knew him.
This is just the strangest case .
Did they go with him without a struggle?