IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[MistyWaters]

A few days ago, a poster walked us through how tedious arson investigations are. That post was very informative. It gave me a better idea how long fire investigations may take.

Perhaps LE in due time will have a connection to both cases when they can compare evidence.

If there's a possible connection by an assiciated second party to organized crime, this FBI solved case is absolutely horrifying but illustrates the darkest side of humanity that has respect for no boundaries. Six family members killed for no reason in retaliation.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/extreme-case-of-witness-intimidation

 

[MistyWaters]

Very true and well explained by several members.

But it doesn't mean the phones were not moving. moo

True. But the comment of Libby's grandfather, that she was a strong-willed girl and would have put up a fight leads me to believe any potential abduction was not successful and the murder occurred at the crime scene.

ETA It was either Abby or Libby's grandfather who commented about the cellphone. If LE believed there was a vehicle involved and the girls might have been sighted elsewhere other than the trail, surely that information would've been released? The simplest answer why not is that the autopsy determined the cause of death and if there was blood loss at the crime scene, the location as well.

 

[Justice101]

I am beginning to think the quick abduction into a car around 2.30 then brought back alive to rear of cemetery and walked down to north side of Creek to their demise could be likely. That's nearly 3 hours to accomplish that and could also explain phones pinging around town.

But how do you get TWO girls into a car like that? Threaten one with being shot or stabbed? Then, when they are in the car, how do you drive and then also control them???? This just doesn't seem likely to me. And why would anyone risk bringing girls back that they know someone is looking for?

 

[JLSChook]

I am beginning to think the quick abduction into a car around 2.30 then brought back alive to rear of cemetery and walked down to north side of Creek to their demise could be likely. That's nearly 3 hours to accomplish that and could also explain phones pinging around town.

There's about a 0.00001% chance that a kidnapper/killer would bring their victims back to where they were abducted from. It's even lower if they were being brought back alive.

Too much risk.

MOO

(Sorry if I sound grouchy..it's because I am )

 

[Steleheart]

True. But the comment of Libby's grandfather, that she was a strong-willed girl and would have put up a fight leads me to believe any potential abduction was not successful and the murder occurred at the crime scene.

ETA It was either Abby or Libby's grandfather who commented about the cellphone. If LE believed there was a vehicle involved and the girls might have been sighted elsewhere other than the trail, surely that information would've been released? The simplest answer why not is that the autopsy determined the cause of death and if there was blood loss at the crime scene, the location as well.

But they did say if someone was seen hitchhiking or someone saw anyone throw out a back pack to let them know. I have felt from the beginning that they found the phone somewhere else and other evidence that BG was more than just a POI. He 'became' the main suspect for some factual reason.

MOO

 

[whiskers]

If there's a possible connection by an assiciated second party to organized crime, this FBI solved case is absolutely horrifying but illustrates the darkest side of humanity that has respect for no boundaries. Six family members killed for no reason in retaliation.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/extreme-case-of-witness-intimidation

That's a good article. Would BG be the 2nd party or even someone else? I'd wondered if BG knew both mothers at one time and this was some sort of revenge on his part. Angry ex.

It's just a possibility. At this point, I'm thinking of many different scenarios.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yuh if they took the lil under bridge road to leave. Then would they have even had to cross the creek at all? If not then I'm on board. I'm sick of the creek. Thanks you.🤗

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Nope. In the car, drive round town a bit then park to rear of cemetery walk them down the hill to the final crime scene. MOO.

 

[kirkassoc]

"We have a killer on the streets running around our state, our nation. We need to get that. And I need people's help to do that. Somebody knows. Please call it in." Patty said."
http://www.wthr.com/article/large-turnout-for-celebration-of-life-for-delphi-murder-victims

If MP has suspicions, speculation could be read into his statement -- the perp does not live in Delphi but is in Indiana and is not presently incarcerated.

If this perp is a SK, he may move around but commit his crimes close to where he is temporarily working at the time. Reminds me of a riveting and heart wrenching story I read this morning about a SK and just "some" of his horrific crimes. Many, I am sure, he took with him to the grave. It seems their whole purpose in life is to kill and destroy. He was incarcerated numerous times only to be let out to kill again.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed#comments

 

[Dawning3]

My opinion only, the families know the character, reputation and lifestyle of every single person associated directly or indirectly to either or both of the girls. So it's human nature that they have developed strong theories while working with LE to identify who or what's they think is responsible, whether that'll be eventually proven right or wrong.

Even though the words of MP might sound like it could be "anyone", what that means is there's not enough evidence yet to prove their suspicions. MOO


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I really wish I knew what their suspicions were, but I don't go on any other SM to talk about the case (Because, I don't really know where to look) and I know we can't discuss it here.


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[Brubon]

Alethea,

We had an opportunity to discuss the accidental shooting case on here and it was determined not to be related and we are not allowed to discuss it any further.

Sorry.

Do you know HOW it was determined the shooting was not related and by whom? Thanks.

 

[MistyWaters]

This snippet is from a CNN interview Feb 16th. Nothing more has been mentioned, whether the footage was useful or not.

CASAREZ: Do you have any more surveillance video or photos at all that you are looking at because since there was a home in the area, the two girls were found on the property, there could have been a camera? Any other visual images?

RILEY: We're still looking into that information that's still out there that we're looking into cameras and stuff that were on private property that was on residences in the area, but none actually on the trail itself.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/16/ptab.01.html


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[Shiressleuth]

The topic of cellphone pings has been discussed many times within these 58 threads by technical folks who understand how they work but iirc the gist of it is a cellphone does not have to travelling in order to ping different nearby cell towers and doing so is a normal function. My understanding is that it has to do with capacity of any one tower at any given time.

I didn't say they were pinging different towers I used MP's description. My point is the phones were still operating apparently. Can't see that happening if the phones were waterlogged that afternoon. LE will have the precise info on when the phones stopped working. It is another indication to me that they left the area in a vehicle.

 

[Peace777]

Yuh if they took the lil under bridge road to leave. Then would they have even had to cross the creek at all? If not then I'm on board. I'm sick of the creek. Thanks you.🤗

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When LE searched RL property they crime scene taped the doors on his truck and carted it away. I wonder why? They sure didn't take it away for his DUI charges only. LE words at the time were something to the affect to either make him "more of a suspect or something"? The first place LE searched was the Bicycle Bridge residence, I wonder if they took away any vehicles from there? Hmmm

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

But how do you get TWO girls into a car like that? Threaten one with being shot or stabbed? Then, when they are in the car, how do you drive and then also control them???? This just doesn't seem likely to me. And why would anyone risk bringing girls back that they know someone is looking for?

He could have easily handcuffed them to an armrest or roof hamdle inside a vehicle. James Dean Worley kept both real handcuffs and cable ties, ropes etc with him to use in abduction and murder . I however do not think BG took them anywhere in a vehicle but just wanted to point out a possibility.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I really wish I knew what their suspicions were, but I don't go on any other SM to talk about the case (Because, I don't really know where to look) and I know we can't discuss it here.


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Lol i just spent the last 7 days without posting here on WS, which lead me down some insane rabbitholes elsewheres, dont bother

 

[Shiressleuth]

But how do you get TWO girls into a car like that? Threaten one with being shot or stabbed? Then, when they are in the car, how do you drive and then also control them???? This just doesn't seem likely to me. And why would anyone risk bringing girls back that they know someone is looking for?

They could know the person and have gone willingly or if random they could have been knocked out/tasered/drugged/bound and gagged in the boot. There was plenty of time it was only 2.30. It would explain several things as well as the phones. Noone saw them, no one heard anything, the searchers didn't find anything either.

 

[KellyNoonan]

There is a path that basically leads to where the bodies were found. An informal path at least near to where they were found. I keep wondering about fishing in this area. I used to fish with my older brothers in similar areas and there was always a sort of path that lead us to the creek or river.

An outsider would be super lucky if he knew about this path.

That path is wholly on RL's property.


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[Shiressleuth]

When LE searched RL property they crime scene taped the doors on his truck and carted it away. I wonder why? They sure didn't take it away for his DUI charges only. LE words at the time were something to the affect to either make him "more of a suspect or something"? The first place LE searched was the Bicycle Bridge residence, I wonder if they took away any vehicles from there? Hmmm

They searched 12 properties altogether. A vehicle or another crime scene could have been the target imo. The girls may have been assaulted in a vehicle or another property other than the final crime scene.

 

[KellyNoonan]

I don't know about that. It seems the only reason he got arrested was because this case drew LE attention upon him. But in the almost 4 years if his drinking or driving menaced the town, don't you think he'd already have got reported by somebody and arrested long ago?

One big problem with him is that he lied to LE. I sure wish we knew if his alibi was proven true or another lie. We know he went to the local dump at 11:00ish because that was on the official court document. But AFAIK, that's the only verified movement. If he had been home, I would certainly assume he would have spent some time outside with his horses, dog...

Something made LE search for 11.5 hours.

 

[KellyNoonan]

They searched 12 properties altogether. A vehicle or another crime scene could have been the target imo. The girls may have been assaulted in a vehicle or another property other than the final crime scene.

Where does one find verifiable information about there having been 12 property searches? I am only aware of two, officially. TIA!