IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[MistyWaters]

Here again the Delphi tragedy is mentioned. This was published before the Senate Bill was passed by the Governor.

Senate Sends Bill on DNA Collection to Gov. Holcomb's Desk

".....Last fall, a DNA sample collected in Ohio helped Indiana police link a man to the fatal shooting of John Clements, 82, in Zionsville, and two other attacks in October. Both Indiana and Ohio had an opportunity to collect DNA from the man, Damoine A. Wilcoxson, but of the two states only Ohio routinely collects DNA samples from arrestees.

Sen. Brandt Hershman, a Lafeyette Republican, said collecting DNA was a technology advancement that could allow the criminal justice system to "work more effectively punishing the guilty and exonerating the innocent," citing the two girls found dead in his district in Delphi."
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...s-bill-on-dna-collection-to-gov-holcombs-desk

 

[midwestseeker]

Yesterday I watched an episode of a show called Real Detective. It covered a case from 1984 where an 18-YO girl was murdered. It was a crime of opportunity, they eventually learned. They also learned that the murderer​ went to the family's house or wake to pay his condolences. 

I wonder if LE checks on people who show up at funerals or at relatives' houses for wakes. The case in the show I watched happened over 30 years ago. Maybe LE has since started watching things like that as SOP.

The above is just my opinion.

Yes, I am quite sure they do. I think it is common for killers to inject themselves in to the investigation and everything surrounding it. I have an example. Back in the early 1990's, a young girl by the name of Angie Housman was taken not too far from where I was living at the time. Deer hunters found her body tied to a tree in a large park. There was not a lot of information being released about the case. I was extremely emotionally involved in that case just as I am today with this case. A few days after the body was found, they put out a call for volunteers to search areas for evidence. I went and volunteered. At the start of the search, we were given instructions about what to look for and where and divided up into small groups. This was all handled by the FBI agent on scene. We were told that when we returned they would like for us to sign a card with our name and address because the family wanted to send cards to thank us for our time and effort. After I returned and was walking to my car, I remembered this. The FBI agent was on the second floor balcony and I called out and asked him if there was a place I was supposed to sign in. He looked at me and with shrug of his shoulders he said to go on and not worry about it. At that moment I realized that Angie had been raped and this whole thing was staged to hopefully draw out the killer. Within days more information was released and they verified the rape aspect of the case. We will reach the 25th anniversary of her murder next year and not one step closer to finding her killer.

 

[MsJosie]

Yes, I am quite sure they do. I think it is common for killers to inject themselves in to the investigation and everything surrounding it. I have an example. Back in the early 1990's, a young girl by the name of Angie Housman was taken not too far from where I was living at the time. Deer hunters found her body tied to a tree in a large park. There was not a lot of information being released about the case. I was extremely emotionally involved in that case just as I am today with this case. A few days after the body was found, they put out a call for volunteers to search areas for evidence. I went and volunteered. At the start of the search, we were given instructions about what to look for and where and divided up into small groups. This was all handled by the FBI agent on scene. We were told that when we returned they would like for us to sign a card with our name and address because the family wanted to send cards to thank us for our time and effort. After I returned and was walking to my car, I remembered this. The FBI agent was on the second floor balcony and I called out and asked him if there was a place I was supposed to sign in. He looked at me and with shrug of his shoulders he said to go on and not worry about it. At that moment I realized that Angie had been raped and this whole thing was staged to hopefully draw out the killer. Within days more information was released and they verified the rape aspect of the case. We will reach the 25th anniversary of her murder next year and not one step closer to finding her killer.

A special thank you for sharing and educating.

 

[Evania]

Yes, I am quite sure they do. I think it is common for killers to inject themselves in to the investigation and everything surrounding it. I have an example. Back in the early 1990's, a young girl by the name of Angie Housman was taken not too far from where I was living at the time. Deer hunters found her body tied to a tree in a large park. There was not a lot of information being released about the case. I was extremely emotionally involved in that case just as I am today with this case. A few days after the body was found, they put out a call for volunteers to search areas for evidence. I went and volunteered. At the start of the search, we were given instructions about what to look for and where and divided up into small groups. This was all handled by the FBI agent on scene. We were told that when we returned they would like for us to sign a card with our name and address because the family wanted to send cards to thank us for our time and effort. After I returned and was walking to my car, I remembered this. The FBI agent was on the second floor balcony and I called out and asked him if there was a place I was supposed to sign in. He looked at me and with shrug of his shoulders he said to go on and not worry about it. At that moment I realized that Angie had been raped and this whole thing was staged to hopefully draw out the killer. Within days more information was released and they verified the rape aspect of the case. We will reach the 25th anniversary of her murder next year and not one step closer to finding her killer.

What an awesome person you are to have done that. I hope that her killer is eventually found...That is so heartbreaking.


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[MistyWaters]

I went to an Indiana lawyer's website to look up what falls into felony classes, there are 6 levels FWIW http://www.calljr.com/lawyer-attorney-c300101

This site talks about possible ways to downgrade a Level Six Felony to a Misdemeanour upon conviction but regardless, here's also their example list of violations that a person could be arrested for, and then be required to turn over a DNA sample, whether later convicted or not.

(Level Six) offenses include theft, operating while intoxicated, drug possession, and maintaining a common nuisance.
http://www.bbgibson.com/practice-areas/criminal-defense/sentences-for-felonies-2014

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I would suspect that it was likely due to that being where RL allegedly kept his truck parked.

I'm sorry if this is not allowed, but I really want to know why the property across from RL's (the Mears) was searched.

 

[2Hope4]

I don't live in Delphi so obviously don't know anyone personally there. Submitting voluntary DNA....I know my husband would NOT submit, even though we're in another state, and definitely is not BG, nor has he ever been to Delphi. But he does not trust other's with his DNA. Wouldn't happen. I don't think he is the only male with that mindset.

Me...I'd probably submit. Might later regret it, but I so want this killer found that if asking for DNA would help, I'd offer it up so they could eliminate me and move on.

OFF TOPIC of the THIS CASE, but not totally off topic in regards to why whoever BG is hasn't come forward, or if someone knows them, and haven't called LE to say who it is....

Recently I was staying at my Mom's. She was in the hospital and I was at her house overnight to take care of the dogs. Anyway, I heard cursing and screaming and doors slamming from next door. Almost an acre away!!! Though no trees or anything between the two houses. Mom had called to see how things were, and I asked who lived in that house now, and told her what was going on. She said "Shut the blinds, turn off the lights, and mind your business!" I was totally shocked! I mean, I guess following cases on here, I was worried about domestic violence and who knows what else could have been about to happen. But Mom refused to say who lived next door! I don't know if it's a generational thing, Mom was 67, and I'm 45. Or a regional thing. Or just individual differences. But her response really did surprise me.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Did you notice the other three sides of crime scene tape in that video? I only see the one directly in front of the camera. For all we know it might encompasses several acres of rolling and slooping land and the video only shows one corner section. I don't ever recall anyone mentioned the size of the area it encompassed, do you?

I have faith that LE has conducted this investigation beyond reproach. If we are to believe they walked away from a crime scene without searching for tracks, hair or lost objects at the very least, then we also are suggesting they are incompetent. Do people really believe that just because they don't notice that leaves have been disturbed? I guarantee you, I could rake my grass clean and if I scattered around bags of my neighbours leaves, one would never know those leaves hadn't arrived naturally.

This video is taken from down at the creek at the south side of the crime scene. It pans counter-clockwise. You will see the east boundary, obviously the south boundary, and all the way to the west.

[video=twitter;832259967658889217]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/832259967658889217[/video]

In this photo from the media, you will see the north side of the crime scene. You can see the east side (left) tape and the west side (right).

The crime scene marked off is not very large. North to south tt is at most 125 feet in length (and likely less) on the east side due to the direction (angle) of the creek with respect to the crime scene, at most 100 feet on the west (and likely less). The crime scene is approximately 150 feet wide measured east to west. The whole area is more than likely 1/3rd of an acre perhaps a little more.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Is that a cat or some sort of critter in the lower right hand corner of the pic?

 

[Confusion]

Is that a cat or some sort of critter in the lower right hand corner of the pic?

It looks like a small dog to me.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Is that a cat or some sort of critter in the lower right hand corner of the pic?

That's RL's dog. This is from an interview.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Did you notice the other three sides of crime scene tape in that video? I only see the one directly in front of the camera. For all we know it might encompasses several acres of rolling and slooping land and the video only shows one corner section. I don't ever recall anyone mentioned the size of the area it encompassed, do you?

I have faith that LE has conducted this investigation beyond reproach. If we are to believe they walked away from a crime scene without searching for tracks, hair or lost objects at the very least, then we also are suggesting they are incompetent. Do people really believe that just because they don't notice that leaves have been disturbed? I guarantee you, I could rake my grass clean and if I scattered around bags of my neighbours leaves, one would never know those leaves hadn't arrived naturally.

BBM. Can you explain this paragraph that you posted to me? Where have I stated that LE has bungled the investigation or did not process the crime scene properly? I haven't done so. I don't think for one second that when you have the FBI crime scene unit processing that scene that they wouldn't have processed it thoroughly. We know that it was the FBI that processed that crime scene since that is what the Sheriff stated in the very first press conference. It wasn't the Sheriff's department nor even the Indiana State Police.

The condition of the crime scene as depicted in the videos and images provides information.

 

[Jennifer17]

You know, what has really been bothering me through all of this, is why those girls wanted to go there. It is bleak and scary looking. can imagine in summer with the trees in leaf, it would be a lovely shady place to go, but not as it is pictured here.

Does anyone else think that that is an unlikely place for girls that age to hang out?

 

[mtnlites]

You know, what has really been bothering me through all of this, is why those girls wanted to go there. It is bleak and scary looking. can imagine in summer with the trees in leaf, it would be a lovely shady place to go, but not as it is pictured here.

Does anyone else think that that is an unlikely place for girls that age to hang out?

It is exactly the kind of place I would've hung out at-at that age and at my current age! When I was a teenager my friends and I loved to go hiking/walking in the woods. The more isolated, the better. Of course, back then we didn't have smart phones and stuff but we always took our 35mm cameras. We took pictures of each other, went for long walks, and talked about boys and other people in our class. My mother was always grateful that we were out doing things like that instead of drinking or getting in trouble.

 

[Evania]

You know, what has really been bothering me through all of this, is why those girls wanted to go there. It is bleak and scary looking. can imagine in summer with the trees in leaf, it would be a lovely shady place to go, but not as it is pictured here.

Does anyone else think that that is an unlikely place for girls that age to hang out?

I get what you're saying. However, I'm guessing that they were the more "outdoorsy" types. I personally hate being cooped up all winter, so the nice weather that day probably seemed like a welcome break. According to all the interviews they were very active girls interested in things such as crafts, sports, knitting hats for NICU babies, hikes, camping etc...They probably were just wanting to get out and take some artistic pictures of the park since the weather was nice. In fact, if I'm not mistaken that's what Libby's grandfather said in a very recent interview.

As for why they weren't scared, I think it was probably a place they felt so happy and comfortable with that it almost felt as safe to them as playing in their backyard. One thing is for certain though...I wish they hadn't gone.


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[Marples]

JMO...For me, this confirms the fact they DO have the suspect's DNA but can't match it to anyone already in the system. That could be a good break in the case. JMO.

I have wondered if it matches to any other crimes with an unknown assailant. Because if this is his first rodeo, his level of preparedness and execution is high.


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[mtnlites]

I get what you're saying. However, I'm guessing that they were the more "outdoorsy" types. I personally hate being cooped up all winter, so the nice weather that day probably seemed like a welcome break. According to all the interviews they were very active girls interested in things such as crafts, sports, knitting hats for NICU babies, hikes, camping etc...They probably were just wanting to get out and take some artistic pictures of the park since the weather was nice. In fact, if I'm not mistaken that's what Libby's grandfather said in a very recent interview.

As for why they weren't scared, I think it was probably a place they felt so happy and comfortable with that it almost felt as safe to them as playing in their backyard. One thing is for certain though...I wish they hadn't gone.


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You sound like my kind of people, Evania. I replied with something similar. It's too bad that such an innocent activity caused such tragedy.

 

[Marples]

The plastic bag could have been used as a murder weapon to suffocate one or both of the girls. I have only just realised this awful possibility.

They are also excellent gags. Easy to carry, fit all mouth sizes and plastic bag is so fine you'd be scared you'd swallow it unlike a thicker material, so you'd be fearful of trying to dislodge it in case it back fired and you choked.


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[Marples]

in calif it's upon arrest..you walk into booking they swab your cheek

That's an excellent process. Two thumbs up for Cali!


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[Marples]

I'm sorry if this is not allowed, but I really want to know why the property across from RL's (the Mears) was searched.

This is something I think about often, too. I've wondered if he stashed the girls or just himself there until searchers moved off. If when they found the girls there was evidence on them of a secondary location.


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