IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[MistyWaters]

I get what you're saying. However, I'm guessing that they were the more "outdoorsy" types. I personally hate being cooped up all winter, so the nice weather that day probably seemed like a welcome break. According to all the interviews they were very active girls interested in things such as crafts, sports, knitting hats for NICU babies, hikes, camping etc...They probably were just wanting to get out and take some artistic pictures of the park since the weather was nice. In fact, if I'm not mistaken that's what Libby's grandfather said in a very recent interview.

As for why they weren't scared, I think it was probably a place they felt so happy and comfortable with that it almost felt as safe to them as playing in their backyard. One thing is for certain though...I wish they hadn't gone.


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The descriptions of the sort of things the girls liked to do really emphasized they did nothing whatsoever to deserve their fate. How they were described makes me believe they're not the type who would even think of antagonizing a grumpy landowner who then suddenly "lost it".

On that theory, I don't recall it ever rationalized why they were first confronted on the bridge.


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[MistyWaters]

This is something I think about often, too. I've wondered if he stashed the girls or just himself there until searchers moved off. If when they found the girls there was evidence on them of a secondary location.


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Somewhere it's written RL house is 1/2 to 3/4rs of a mile away from the discovery sight. The barn is across the road from his place. For what reason might someone commit a homicide and then carry the bodies through ravines and rough terrain to a secondary location, to ensure the victims would be discovered sooner? That just seems very unlikely to me, especially if the perp had access to a vehicle and could have driven them anywhere where they might still be undiscovered.

In my opinion it was a matter of due diligence for LE to thoroughly search everything in the immediate area and no doubt questionable alibis formed the basis. But because they did, at this point in time it's not indicative that a connection to the actual homicide was ever established.


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[Evania]

But if they were so 'outdoorsy types, why were they driven there and had an appointment to be picked up? Why not walk all the way there? The park was in walking distance of one of the girl's homes. I don't get why they were driven there if they just wanted to enjoy the nice weather. I am not trying to say that that shouldn't have been driven there. I just don;t understand it.

Yes, the park is close to Abby's house. The night before, Abby spent the night at Libby's house, and so that was where they left from.


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[Jo in Calif]

To clarify, I wasn't referencing LE at all. A poster misquoted RL by accident. RL said the CS was "pristine" in an interview because he saw it prior to LE investigating the CS if I'm not mistaken.

pristine, IMO, can mean several things and it's probably not wise to take anything significant away from his word choice in a media interview shortly after something terrible happened on his property.

I believe another poster a while back brought up the idea that someone else had said that, perhaps LE or MSM and that RL was mirroring. I don't know if that's the case I don't have a link but maybe someone else does.

iMO the "pristine" comment doesn't help much. Happy to hear others opinions on it though.


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This is where the pristine crime scene comment came from.
When it was transcribed they screwed up where the question came from.

LOGAN: What did you see when you went out there?

CASAREZ: There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell that there was any such a violent action.

Casarez asked the question, "what did you see when you went out there?"
Logan answered, " There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell

that there was any such a violent action."

Then Casarez asked, You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?
Logand answer, No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

This was an outdoors crime scene, not inside a structure where blood evidence would still be visible on walls or floors, if there was any.
IMO too much is being made of the comment pristine.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/20/ptab.01.html

 

[MistyWaters]

"We'll find you, to assure good trumps evil, and it will."
--Superintendent of Indiana State Police Doug Carte

Reward Increased To Over $226,000
SOMEBODY KNOWS! CALL TIP LINE NOW.
http://www.delphitimes.net/frontpage.html

 

[Evania]

Then who was supposed to pick them up?if Abby lived close by?

I don't know if that has been released.

In regards to the relative closeness of Abby's house: I don't think that just because Abby and Libby technically *could* have walked home, necessarily meant that they wanted to. For instance, if I'm going on a three hour hike, that doesn't mean I want to walk miles from the location of Libby's house to get there, or walk roughly a mile give or take, back to Abby's house. I love to walk, but unless I'm training for some marathon, I would likely either drive to the park or get a ride. Yeah, they could have adjusted their plans to allow that, if that's what they wanted. However, their objective was to walk around for a few hours and take pictures.
Also, they could have had plans immediately afterwards, that a relative was going to take them somewhere directly following their walk at the park, and so that was the plan they made to pick them up from.


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[Brighty]

You know, what has really been bothering me through all of this, is why those girls wanted to go there. It is bleak and scary looking. can imagine in summer with the trees in leaf, it would be a lovely shady place to go, but not as it is pictured here.

Does anyone else think that that is an unlikely place for girls that age to hang out?

My best friend and I spent most of our free time hanging out in the outdoors. Sometimes we rode horses and sometimes walked and talked and sometimes just laid under a tree or on a creek bank and dreamed out loud to each other. We did it year round, the weather had to be really nasty to keep us from going.

 

[Jax49]

Then who was supposed to pick them up?if Abby lived close by?

We do not know who was supposed to pick them up. All that has been released was that it was a different family member. moo

 

[JLSChook]

Finally catching up today after some longggg days of craziness. :facepalm:

I was so hoping to come here and find something new...anything, FGS!

I do not believe this case is cold but it sure is frustrating. It's gonna drive me to :drink: pretty soon.

Have a great day, all!

May today be THE day.

eace:

 

[Evania]

To clarify, I wasn't referencing LE at all. A poster misquoted RL by accident. RL said the CS was "pristine" in an interview because he saw it prior to LE investigating the CS if I'm not mistaken.

pristine, IMO, can mean several things and it's probably not wise to take anything significant away from his word choice in a media interview shortly after something terrible happened on his property.

I believe another poster a while back brought up the idea that someone else had said that, perhaps LE or MSM and that RL was mirroring. I don't know if that's the case I don't have a link but maybe someone else does.

iMO the "pristine" comment doesn't help much. Happy to hear others opinions on it though.


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I agree!

For me personally, RL's words aren't worth a lot.
Unless, he physically saw the bodies, and how they were found, I don't know if he can positively say with any legitimacy that the crime scene was factually considered "pristine".

He wouldn't have been allowed back there when they were investigating. Was he part of the search party that located them? If not, then it's likely he saw the crime scene after the evidence was taken and a clean up crew left. The clean up crew won't leave blood and gore around after LE leaves, and they'll return it to looking normal. In some locations, that may be a difficult job. Out in the woods though, it wouldn't take a lot to get it back to looking like it's natural state again.


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[Jo in Calif]

We do not know who was supposed to pick them up. All that has been released was that it was a different family member. moo

When a family member returned to pick them up. 3:38 in the PC.
If it was a different family member they would not have been returning, IMO it was the same family member that dropped them off and returned to pick them up.

[video=youtube;mZcHfgbOcKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcHfgbOcKo&app=desktop[/video]

 

[Ember123]

JMO....
I think some people migrated to the image thread.

Can/should we ask that image & discussion threads be reunited now that things have calmed (slowed, sadly) down? MODS????

 

[Steleheart]

Can/should we ask that image & discussion threads be reunited now that things have calmed (slowed, sadly) down? MODS????

IMO there is no need to merge the 2 threads. Just puit it in your subscriptions.

Ask a mod by alerting your post and simply request it.

JMO

 

[Eileen730]

I don't know if that has been released.

In regards to the relative closeness of Abby's house: I don't think that just because Abby and Libby technically *could* have walked home, necessarily meant that they wanted to. For instance, if I'm going on a three hour hike, that doesn't mean I want to walk miles from the location of Libby's house to get there, or walk roughly a mile give or take, back to Abby's house. I love to walk, but unless I'm training for some marathon, I would likely either drive to the park or get a ride. Yeah, they could have adjusted their plans to allow that, if that's what they wanted. However, their objective was to walk around for a few hours and take pictures.
Also, they could have had plans immediately afterwards, that a relative was going to take them somewhere directly following their walk at the park, and so that was the plan they made to pick them up from.


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I have so many questions and I can't ask them because of TOS.
There is a huge gap between who dropped them off and RL.
Why has it all been kept quiet.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know if that has been released.

In regards to the relative closeness of Abby's house: I don't think that just because Abby and Libby technically *could* have walked home, necessarily meant that they wanted to. For instance, if I'm going on a three hour hike, that doesn't mean I want to walk miles from the location of Libby's house to get there, or walk roughly a mile give or take, back to Abby's house. I love to walk, but unless I'm training for some marathon, I would likely either drive to the park or get a ride. Yeah, they could have adjusted their plans to allow that, if that's what they wanted. However, their objective was to walk around for a few hours and take pictures.
Also, they could have had plans immediately afterwards, that a relative was going to take them somewhere directly following their walk at the park, and so that was the plan they made to pick them up from.


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Good point, we don't know anything about their later plans.

And to other comments, why didn't Abby walk home. Because she stayed the previous night at Libby's, she likely took an overnight bag that was left there. So it's possible that whoever was picking them up planned to collect Abby's overnight bag prior to bringing her home.

Whether the two walked the rural roads on other occasions, we just don't know. It's a matter of speculation this was even an option and I'm a little sceptical that it was. That it was considered safe for two young teens to walk a public trail doesn't necessarily translate into two young teens being allowed to walk along the side of a rural road very close to a major highway, the possible risk being getting hit by a crazy driver. MOO


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[KellyNoonan]

But if they were so 'outdoorsy types, why were they driven there and had an appointment to be picked up? Why not walk all the way there? The park was in walking distance of one of the girl's homes. I don't get why they were driven there if they just wanted to enjoy the nice weather. I am not trying to say that that shouldn't have been driven there. I just don;t understand it.

I can totally see a "Hey, sis....would you drop us off at the high bridge and pick me up later at Abby's?"

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I'm going to add my 2cents here because I honestly feel this entire 'pristine' thing has been taken out of context.
RL would most definitely know what his own land looks like. He stated in an interview that his son and his friends used to "play back there" when they were young. He said he never thought of it as being a dangerous area.

My take is that he is referring to the fact that considering two young girls were just found murdered on his property, his property still looks as it did before. IOW you can't tell anything happened. I know I would be expecting the after to look a mess--with the amount of LE, emergency, crime scene techs, etc. I would probably be thinking it's hard to believe anything horrible happened here because it looks so calm and beautiful, just the way it has for the last 53 years.

I agree!

For me personally, RL's words aren't worth a lot.
Unless, he physically saw the bodies, and how they were found, I don't know if he can positively say with any legitimacy that the crime scene was factually considered "pristine".

He wouldn't have been allowed back there when they were investigating. Was he part of the search party that located them? If not, then it's likely he saw the crime scene after the evidence was taken and a clean up crew left. The clean up crew won't leave blood and gore around after LE leaves, and they'll return it to looking normal. In some locations, that may be a difficult job. Out in the woods though, it wouldn't take a lot to get it back to looking like it's natural state again.


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[MistyWaters]

I think it's the control they enjoy. Both control of the victim and the aftermath, especially control or outwitting of LE.

On the psychopath SK theory, the notoriety as well. LE and the attention of the general public, obsessing over who he is and what makes him tick, gives him a thrill.

MOO

 

[Ember123]

I'm sure this isn't a new thought or theory, but I'll share it anyway.
The notion of silencing and punishment comes to mind strongly.
Had this man had some previous encounter with one of the girls, or the girls and perhaps they said they were going "to tell?"
This seems like a solid theory to me.
Maybe the girls walked that trail frequently, but I know that young girls go for long walks with their best friend when they "need to talk". I just think that maybe something happened previously, and this guy was silencing them.

I think this very likely too, based on my own life experiences as a young girl. MoO

 

[Ember123]

The mention of hanging brought thoughts of revenge killings to mind. Maybe the perp had an uncle or dad or brother silenced by the Law. Or the hanging "The way the bodies were found..." suggesting foul play instead of suicide, plus the inability to identify the remains...hangings will disfigure and discolor features beyond recognition a [in] short time. The murder was subtle, not easily discerned. The gag is well thought out in advance. If LE doesn't have any evidence of SA then retaliatory madness makes sense.

IDA Reyato, where have you been, old girl? (Just teasin' ! I once thought that was really your name! LOL! Your avatar does creep me out though! : / ) Ember