IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[Steleheart]

It absolutely would be the best of all situations if LE has possession of the phone. It is troublesome to me that LE has never used the words "we recovered/found LIbby's phone" but rather has said things that are intentionally vague. Even in the video report that you linked the person they were speaking to never said anything like "After the phone was found they brought it to our lab and ...". Nothing like that. Nothing that firmly says they are in possession of the phone.

Again, LE could very well have the phone and are just poorly communicating that they do have it. For me, it doesn't affect my theory of the crime whether LE has the phone or not. The only thing for me is that discovering and recovering the video early on the 14th from the cloud better explains the search activities on the 14th (that I can't get into on this thread) than if LE was just working blind that day. While I believe LE had seen/heard that video early on the 14th and that would mean it was obtained from the cloud that in and of itself does not preclude LE from having the phone in their possession. It is the fact that LE is being intentionally vague about it and dancing around their words that leads me to believe they don't have it.

I could be wrong about this but as of now I don't think so.

I agree. As much as I have quoted the recovered the video from Libby's Phone, in all honesty I want to know specifically. Just for me. I want to know where and when they found it, in what condition, was it wet, dry, smashed, etc. But even if I :tantrum: they prolly won't answer me. Which tells me only the investigators and the killer know.

 

[MistyWaters]

It absolutely would be the best of all situations if LE has possession of the phone. It is troublesome to me that LE has never used the words "we recovered/found LIbby's phone" but rather has said things that are intentionally vague. Even in the video report that you linked the person they were speaking to never said anything like "After the phone was found they brought it to our lab and ...". Nothing like that. Nothing that firmly says they are in possession of the phone.

Again, LE could very well have the phone and are just poorly communicating that they do have it. For me, it doesn't affect my theory of the crime whether LE has the phone or not. The only thing for me is that discovering and recovering the video early on the 14th from the cloud better explains the search activities on the 14th (that I can't get into on this thread) than if LE was just working blind that day. While I believe LE had seen/heard that video early on the 14th and that would mean it was obtained from the cloud that in and of itself does not preclude LE from having the phone in their possession. It is the fact that LE is being intentionally vague about it and dancing around their words that leads me to believe they don't have it.

I could be wrong about this but as of now I don't think so.

Following the press conference and the release of the audio, virtually dozens of media used the words "retrieved from the cellphone". I watched the YouTube video but cannot locate the first speaker who was referred to. Still, that every media person there got "retrieved from the cellphone" wrong would be too big a coincidence.

For example -

"The evidence was a video clip retrieved from the cellphone of one of the victims."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-release-audio-clip-victims-phone-hopes-catching/story?id=45655692

iCloud data is retrieved from a storage system, not the cellphone. IMO "retrieved from the cellphone" has only one meaning, the data was retrieved from the cellphone.

So how did LE get the cellphone?

 

[yupikgirl]

I forgot to quote the post in reference to this, but for correctness iMessages can be retrieved. I posted upthread how. I can read every single iMessage my children send (text messages too) by knowing their apple password. Without the password I can read all their iMessages and text messages if I have the physical phone- even deleted.

I posted upthread that we have software we purchased a while back because we had a broken phone and it hadn't been uploaded to the cloud on an regular basis. That said I also pointed out this was for iPhones and from all the stuff I read I'm fairly confident she had an iPhone- just statements and stuff from the family. IMO of course.

All that said I think it doesn't matter much to me....we know they have one or the other because they have the video. I understand the discussion though and why we are having it.


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[mtnlites]

It absolutely would be the best of all situations if LE has possession of the phone. It is troublesome to me that LE has never used the words "we recovered/found LIbby's phone" but rather has said things that are intentionally vague. Even in the video report that you linked the person they were speaking to never said anything like "After the phone was found they brought it to our lab and ...". Nothing like that. Nothing that firmly says they are in possession of the phone.

Again, LE could very well have the phone and are just poorly communicating that they do have it. For me, it doesn't affect my theory of the crime whether LE has the phone or not. The only thing for me is that discovering and recovering the video early on the 14th from the cloud better explains the search activities on the 14th (that I can't get into on this thread) than if LE was just working blind that day. While I believe LE had seen/heard that video early on the 14th and that would mean it was obtained from the cloud that in and of itself does not preclude LE from having the phone in their possession. It is the fact that LE is being intentionally vague about it and dancing around their words that leads me to believe they don't have it.

I could be wrong about this but as of now I don't think so.

Thank you, Jethro. This was the sentiment I was trying to convey earlier and was apparently failing to get across. The vagueness, the dancing around by LE, and some of the things said on SM were what led me to form my opinion about the phone. In the long run, however, I don't think it matters. I don't know that having the physical phone will give them much more information that what they can glean from accessing the girls' accounts online. IMO, the only thing having the physical phone would give them is some insight into BG's behavior.

 

[Rott Mom]

IMO - BG was not a transient - how in the world did he have the confidence to walk across that
depilated bridge? He knew that bridge, and, IMO, he knew these girls.

 

[Rott Mom]

Sorry to double-post, but my niece belongs to a "club" (which I won't mention) that camps annually at Delphi. Not this year - I'm really disappointed in LE not coming forth w/ more information to give to the residents of Delphi. School will be out soon for summer break. Are the parents in Delphi afraid to let their kids play outside? I know I would be - JMO!

 

[cluciano63]

If LE does have the phone, it does not seemed to have helped. Hardly seems to matter at this point, imo.

Also I have been watching ID channel all week, catching up on-demand as I had not had that channel for a year or more. In every case with a child as the murder victim, LE has spoken and reacted in much the same way as in this case, i.e the statements of how horrible it was even for experienced LE, the gathering of all branches of LE to help, the talk about images they would never forget, and more. For me, this confirms my thoughts that while these murders in Delphi were certainly horrendous, LE's reactions do not mean it was particularly bizarre or unheard of, etc...but that the horror of child murder victims is always a trauma and shock to all.
Jmo

 

[cluciano63]

Sorry to double-post, but my niece belongs to a "club" (which I won't mention) that camps annually at Delphi. Not this year - I'm really disappointed in LE not coming forth w/ more information to give to the residents of Delphi. School will be out soon for summer break. Are the parents in Delphi afraid to let their kids play outside? I know I would be - JMO!

I really feel LE is letting the community down by not being more forthcoming. If they feel that the killer was unknown to the girls, this is crucial, as that means anyone could become another victim. If they feel there was more than one perp, they should say so, as a duo or trio might jog memories in a new way. If the girls were sexually assaulted, other young girls could be at risk as well. How any parent could carry on with almost no information or reassuarance, or even more warnings, is beyond me.
Jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

I don't think that the parent's of Delphi need any warning not to let their little girls out of their sight.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I haven't gotten further in the thread than this, but yes you have to actually set it so it doesn't do it. I've tested this multiple times in other cases as well as this one. Photos and video are there right away. Then later the phone itself does an automatic backup once a day when the phone is plugged in, connected to wifi, and has enough battery to do so. Without it plugged in it won't happen. That's for the full backup. But photos and videos are automatic instantly unless you tell the phone to do otherwise.

For me I do a full back up once a week. So not to use all the could storage. My hubby once a day because he has lost multiple phones and needs the cloud for when he gets a new one LOL. He also pays for extra. I want to also add for $49.95 anyone can buy a program to get someone else's cloud if you know the password- or if you have the device. We have it and used it when one of our phones broke and we weren't backing to the cloud on a regular basis. But the software doesn't require the phone if you have the password. My point in mentioning that is law enforcement probably has much more sophisticated software as we saw in the news piece - but the software we have gives you whole lot including all text messages.

Edit im speaking about iPhones and iPads. It's my assumption and opinion based on all the family's words than she had an iPhone. I could be wrong and don't feel like pulling the quotes, but it's my opinion. I would imagine it's similar for other phones, but I don't have a clue. And I apologize for being so wordy- ashamed to admit I skip right over posts like mine that are long LOL, but if anyone wants the software I'll come back with a link/name. For nosey parents like us it's a good tool to read texts without the device LOL


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You read your kid's texts? Remotely? Blimey.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The most interesting aspect of the cellphone, aside what might be stored in its memory, is not whether or not LE might otherwise subpoena the content of the apps.

It's where and when did LE retrieve it?

At the BBR search IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think its just word whiskers

Obviously the murders didn't happen on the bridge. It happened shortly after that but I include grabbing girls for evil intentions as a crime. I'm including all aspects regardless of what separate charges as being "the crime".

I think we are on the same wavelength.;-)

 

[Shiressleuth]

This is such a hard crime. My opinion has adjusted since the beginning, but one aspect I haven't been able to let go of is the possibility of two crime scenes. Members here may have been following the Scanner Thread, and know what I am referring.

All that to be said, one crime scene may have occurred on the bridge side of Deer Creek, and the the other on the cemetery side of the creek, where the bodies were found. It's that simple, IMO.

I've been following this case since the beginning and the main clues are:

1) Libby's capture of the video stills released of the suspect, the image of Abby shared on Snapchat, and the voice capture of "down the hill." (With this, the evidence from the phone or uploaded cloud data are key- we can only speculate how information came to the investigators, but either way, the important aspect is they have it).

2) The location of the bodies found about 3/4 mile from the bridge and by noon the next day (February 14) after they were reported missing the evening of February 13. This is important because, IMO, the crime happened fast.

3) The early interviews of the searchers on the night of February 13, when there was no evidence anything bad had happened to the girls, just fear it was getting cold, or they may have been abducted. IMO, it's important to go back to the beginning and take a look at the news reports before the girls' bodies were found. These are available on YouTube.

There are so many clues available on the web, and sorting them is hard, but important to do. Those are the main ones I think about tonight. Some of you may have others you would sort ahead of the ones I listed.

If Libby's phone automatically updated cloud, why didn't someone look on it straight away? Wouldn't the video have been right there then?

 

[Shiressleuth]

There was a mention in the special done by RTV6 about the girls that had a mention of FaceTime. Now, that is an Apple product. However, the person mentioning it may be using FaceTime "generically" (much like Band-Aid) as there are other video chat apps out there. There isn't a real way to know.

Even in the case that it truly was FaceTime and that it was two Apple devices on each end for the girls it doesn't mean that the smartphone Libby uses regularly or took to the bridge was an iPhone. That is because, if you have an old phone sitting around you don't have to pay for any phone service whatsoever to use it over Wi-Fi for example - my wife uses her old iPhone all the time and it hasn't been connected for phone service for over 4 years. Until LE tells us the make and model of the phone we can't be sure.

I thought it had been confirmed the Face time was because L had an iphone and A had an ipad. No link so MOO.

 

[mtnlites]

If Libby's phone automatically updated cloud, why didn't someone look on it straight away? Wouldn't the video have been right there then?

Too busy looking for the girls and didn't think about it? Took awhile to find the right password?

Looking at this case in hindsight raises ideas that might not have been considered at the time. When my son died, there were lots of things I could have done that would have made good sense. Living in the moment at the time, however, changes perspective.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I forgot to quote the post in reference to this, but for correctness iMessages can be retrieved. I posted upthread how. I can read every single iMessage my children send (text messages too) by knowing their apple password. Without the password I can read all their iMessages and text messages if I have the physical phone- even deleted.

I posted upthread that we have software we purchased a while back because we had a broken phone and it hadn't been uploaded to the cloud on an regular basis. That said I also pointed out this was for iPhones and from all the stuff I read I'm fairly confident she had an iPhone- just statements and stuff from the family. IMO of course.

All that said I think it doesn't matter much to me....we know they have one or the other because they have the video. I understand the discussion though and why we are having it.


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Yes I think I know why having the physical phone is important. Is it because of Apps like Kik and Whatsapp that are encrypted and don't save anywhere? So if LE have Libby's phone could they see her Kik history for example?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Too busy looking for the girls and didn't think about it? Took awhile to find the right password?

Looking at this case in hindsight raises ideas that might not have been considered at the time. When my son died, there were lots of things I could have done that would have made good sense. Living in the moment at the time, however, changes perspective.

Sorry about your son. I realise that family cannot possibly think straight but others and LE should know. They had that video the next day didn't they?
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but that is all we have here on WS sadly. It may help catch the perp though hopefully and help in any future cases.

 

[yupikgirl]

Yes I think I know why having the physical phone is important. Is it because of Apps like Kik and Whatsapp that are encrypted and don't save anywhere? So if LE have Libby's phone could they see her Kik history for example?

I don't know about kik- not very familiar with that one except what I've seen on the news, but whatsapp can be accessed without the phone via that software I mentioned earlier. I would assume LE have more sophisticated software.

And yes once in a blue moon I've read my kids texts. As I said I bought the software for a different purpose- a phone that had broken and hadn't been backed up in a very long time. We were able to extract information for the new phone...I don't think there is anything wrong with knowing what my kids are up to. I can tell you this they don't have any of the dangerous apps mentioned on these threads- nor are they hiding any. Just my opinion, but my kids are 12 and 16 and they have no business on kik or even some of the others (I say that because they've both have had iPhones since they were pretty young)

But having they physical phone is better I would assume...I agree with what you've said.


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[Shiressleuth]

I don't know about kik- not very familiar with that one except what I've seen on the news, but whatsapp can be accessed without the phone via that software I mentioned earlier. I would assume LE have more sophisticated software.

And yes once in a blue moon I've read my kids texts. As I said I bought the software for a different purpose- a phone that had broken and hadn't been backed up in a very long time. We were able to extract information for the new phone...I don't think there is anything wrong with knowing what my kids are up to. I can tell you this they don't have any of the dangerous apps mentioned on these threads- nor are they hiding any. Just my opinion, but my kids are 12 and 16 and they have no business on kik or even some of the others (I say that because they've both have had iPhones since they were pretty young)

But having they physical phone is better I would assume...I agree with what you've said.


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Yep and I agree with you too. Tech savvy and wise parents.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

I don't think that the parent's of Delphi need any warning not to let their little girls out of their sight.

LE told us not to let our girls go in pairs,go in a group...sounds like a huge warning