IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #63

[Lilowlet]

Agree. On the image thread Websight also came to that conclusion after realizing the gait in the images didn't line up perfectly. IIRC there was quite a bit of discussion at the time about it and Websight put in a lot of time lining up the frames to give a better feel for the sequence of his steps.

What I am surprised to hear is the reporter making the comment as if it's been known for awhile. I don't recall LE ever mentioning the fact before.

Wow how'd she know that?, said it so matter of fact. So they gather this type of info based on the camera? Is it different from front to back? Sorry so much questions, I remember slightly a discussion about it but am still not sure how this works. Imo always

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[iscaremyself]

Libby took the pic from over her shoulder

https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/887816655836938240?s=04

the reporter certainly states it as fact.. but no way it can be known for sure..
Unless the reporter has seen the clip or has insider info. She's an Indianapolis reporter so she just might.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

How I wish the girls got away. This is so sad. I have girls. I cant even imagine what the families are going through.
What breeds this kind of EVIL?

I hear you. Most of us are just absolutely baffled and horrified at his mindset. Justice will come some day for all evil people. The caught ones, as well as those not caught. imo



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[Deleted member 172065]

I agree. He has the saddest eyes. It makes me think he looks so ordinary that many people may have seen him without really seeing him.

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Yeah, and he will be really sad when justice does come.


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[BeesInMyBonnet]

I completely agree with everything you've said. Back in 1986 I was at a dance club and danced with this guy. He bought me a drink also. I then saw a man across the bar that I wanted to dance with and the guy who bought me that drink blew a gasket. He was so angry with me and even stomped his feet. But I went over to the guy I wanted to dance with and never knew what happened to the other guy. But I always remembered him because of the way he had acted when I wanted to move on. Even over the years I would tell people about it and how he had acted. I never forgot him.

Fast forward to 2014-2015 I had a show on with Erin Moriarty and it was about a woman who had survived being attacked around the same time as I encountered that weirdo at the bar in 1986. This woman even met him at the same bar I had been out. I was half paying attention to the story but my ears perked up when the name of the bar was mentioned. I looked up to watch it and when they put up a picture of his mugshot my heart sank into my chest. It was the same guy, same place, around the same time. He was out at that bar hunting...

Because I had that encounter with him it's extremely likely I could have assisted in making a sketch of him, but he didn't commit a crime with me and I never thought too much about him again. He's finally locked up for good and I hope he remains that way. But time didn't diminish my memory of him at all. His story has been featured on a few shows detailing his crimes. Dark Minds and the show with Erin Moriarty and it still freaks me out to think I was within inches of becoming one of his victims. He must have believed that one drink offered him a way to be closer to him or feel obligated. I say that only because of how he acted when I wanted to move on... It's scary stuff!!!!

All of this: yes! For me, the realization came when women he encountered the night of his second (known) murder recounted in a news article a request he'd made of them. It was the very same sentence he'd said to me all those years ago. I trembled, my breathing rate increased, and all of those images of him came rushing back. When I later saw his composite sketch and then photos, I knew.


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[Deleted member 172065]

MsMtOlympus.
News like this case, with sketches, should be made 'world wide'.
Someone in his past may recognize him.
His back ground may not be from USA.

Yeah, and he coulda high tailed it out of the US.


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[Barbie619]

Great post. Something that stood out to me. LE specifically asked the media to share the original BG photo along with the sketch. There has been no mention of the voice recording of down the hill (to my knowledge).

Does LE now definitively know they are from two different men? Why not include all 3 key pieces of information to help identify the man. Why not at least remind the public and media of the audio clip. It seems to have been deliberately not mentioned but why?

All MOO of course.

Could it be that all the tips that they have been receiving up until the sketch release have been based on that audio? People recognized the voice? I don't know but it seems likely that's what happened.

 

[Daae]

Hey folks. Found a nice tool for radius searches from a youtube video. Google maps doesn't have a tool for this. Just enter a city/town and state, then click once on the map after searching where you want the radius to start. Right click or refresh to reset. This may help with Web-sleuthing in the future. It was built by a developer. Enjoy!

http://obeattie.github.io/gmaps-rad...=mi&lat=51.500358&lng=-0.125506&z=10&u=mi&r=5


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Wow this is nice!!! Thank you!
Drawing a radius at the 1 mile and 2 mile distance from the body site reveals how many areas BG could have parked and returned easily to his vehicle in a half hour walk!

 

[Cryptic]

I see his eyes as rummy, which matches my assertion that his bulbous nose reminds me of a chronic drinker.

Good points. He has two physical characteristics that could support that he is a heavy drinker.

If he does drink heavily, I wonder where he drinks. His clothes seem to strongly suggest a mid western blue collar worker / farmer. Most humans prefer the company of other people like themselves.

Rural and small town mid west can be dotted with blue collar taverns where regulars are known and strangers get noted (well, at least I was). If Indiana is similar, that sketch needs to be passed out in rural taverns and more urban blue collar taverns,

 

[ninij9]

Good points. He has two physical characteristics that could support that he is a heavy drinker.

If he does drink heavily, I wonder where he drinks. His clothes seem to strongly suggest a mid western blue collar worker / farmer. Most humans prefer the company of other people like themselves.

Rural and small town Minnesota is dotted with blue collar taverns where regulars are known and strangers get noted (well, at least I was). If Indiana is similar, that sketch needs to be passed out in rural taverns and more urban blue collar taverns,

Perhaps that day he had his bottle and was drinking on the trail. I'm in the camp that says he had a plastic bag under his coat. I always thought it held liquor, not a kill kit.

I think these girls passed him at the foot of the bridge. I remember there may be a bench there. Either they giggled and annoyed him. Or he asked them to party, and they declined, giggled and annoyed him. For whatever reason, I think he got up and immediately began to follow them. Maybe calling out to them. Maybe just following. I think that as they walked away Libby began her furtive attempts to film him. It alarmed her because she knew he was following. From there...

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[Daae]

Good points. He has two physical characteristics that could support that he is a heavy drinker.

If he does drink heavily, I wonder where he drinks. His clothes seem to strongly suggest a mid western blue collar worker / farmer. Most humans prefer the company of other people like themselves.


Rural and small town Minnesota is dotted with blue collar taverns where regulars are known and strangers get noted (well, at least I was). If Indiana is similar, that sketch needs to be passed out in rural taverns and more urban blue collar taverns,

Fliers need to go to liquor and convenience stores as well. Also, his beer belly indicates excessive alcohol intake.

 

[Cryptic]

I think these girls passed him at the foot of the bridge. I remember there may be a bench there. Either they giggled and annoyed him. Or he asked them to party, and they declined, giggled and annoyed him. For whatever reason, I think he got up and immediately began to follow them. Maybe calling out to them. Maybe just following. I think that as they walked away Libby began her furtive attempts to film him. It alarmed her because she knew he was following. From there...

This scenario is awful, but it makes perfect sense and does not involve arranged meetings made with out social media etc.

I don't think he is a transient as his clothes are clean and appear to be almost color coordinated well- at least by the standards of most guys. That and the possible escape route across area farms makes me think of the contractor, farm worker, farm mechanic possibility.

Fliers need to go to liquor and convenience stores as well.

Good points.

Yikes, your points show me thinking like.... me: I habitually stop by bars in my area for a beer and an hamburger, but do not usually keep alcohol at home and rarely buy it from stores. So, naturally, I only thought of the tavern possibility for drinking .:thinking:

 

[Brendakay]

I see him as a Monster, not human, eyes empty. Probably as did Libby and Abby.

 

[ninij9]

This scenario is awful, but it makes perfect sense and does not involve arranged meetings made with out social media etc. I don't think he is a transient as his clothes are clean and appear to be almost color coordinated well- at least by the standards of most guys. That and the possible escape route across area farms makes me think of the contractor, farm worker, farm mechanic possibility.

Yes. Someone on a scheduled break from the plant or nearby farm. Or someone who had Mondays off. A liquid lunch. I'm guessing functional alcoholic (if he is a drinker). I'm seeing crime of opportunity. Escalation. All jmo.

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[Brubon]

Yes Lilowlet.....Randy Quaid......Of Mice and Men.....
Lennie Small.....unforgettable character.
Praying 7.20.17 is the day....please.

 

[Barbie619]

All of this: yes! For me, the realization came when women he encountered the night of his second (known) murder recounted in a news article a request he'd made of them. It was the very same sentence he'd said to me all those years ago. I trembled, my breathing rate increased, and all of those images of him came rushing back. When I later saw his composite sketch and then photos, I knew.


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yes, yes, yes! It is very shocking and the emotional reaction is startling. I was so upset and went on a roller coaster ride for almost a week after seeing the show. All the emotions it brought up made me feel sick. For me it was such a unusual encounter it stuck in my memory forever... It was after that, that I found WS and started looking to see if there was a thread about him here. A real wolf in sheep's clothing.

I saw the nice guy and in a instant the angry bad guy... I was lucky I got away. His name is Ned/Edwin Snelgrove... Glad he's off the streets, he's a danger to all women. M. Michael Phelps wrote a book about him but I can't bring myself to buy it and read it..not yet, maybe never.

The BG sketch is so good that I have no doubt that someone recognizes his face whether the encounter was good or bad. He's far too old to be just starting his career as a murderer. He's been doing this for a very long time. If this was his first time (which I doubt) it was triggered by something, something major that has happened in his personal life around the time of these murder's. The clothing he's wearing seem to be well worn and that would/could trigger a memory for someone. It looks like a outdoorsman, farmer, fisherman, construction. His clothes remind me of someone who needs to be comfortable in his work attire, loose fitting, even a size or 2 larger than his actual size. It's a gift and a curse but I have a photographic memory and for me I would know this guy based on that sketch if I had ever seen him before....

 

[Cryptic]

Yes. Someone on a scheduled break from the plant or nearby farm. Or someone who had Mondays off. A liquid lunch. I'm guessing functional alcoholic (if he is a drinker). I'm seeing crime of opportunity. Escalation. All jmo.

Good points, but I think the plant is a more distant possibility.

People arriving late from breaks or lunches at a production plant tend to get noticed. The crime scene is far enough from the plant that committing it while on lunch break could well be possible only in theory but not in practicality. Likewise, supervisors tend to have a good idea of who leaves a plant for lunch and many plants have recorded entry gates.

The self employed and more loosely supervised farm worker possibility, however, seems very likely though.

 

[MsMtOlympus]

I'm echoing my own post from the last thread while also expanding on it regarding the mind-boggling fact that no one from BG's life has yet to come forward. Has this guy never had one family member, partner, friend, acquaintance, classmate, boss, co-worker, landlord, neighbor, drinking buddy, etc. in his entire life?

Either the right people aren't being exposed to the story or BG altered his appearance on the day he murdered Abby and Libby IMO. Could he have even faked an American dialect when speaking to the girls? (Outlandish, I know. But I'm beyond desperate at this point for explanations.)

I used to think that there's one person out there who knows BG and knows what he did but is either too afraid to alert LE or is covering for him. But the more I ponder it, the more I realize that many people have crossed paths with him in his life (after all, even drifters have past ties). Are they ALL afraid to make that call? Are they ALL covering for him? No. Improbable. So why is no one turning him in? WHY??

 

[Daae]

I'm echoing my own post from the last thread while also expanding on it regarding the mind-boggling fact that no one from BG's life has yet to come forward. Has this guy never had one family member, partner, friend, acquaintance, classmate, boss, co-worker, landlord, neighbor, drinking buddy, etc. in his entire life?

Either the right people aren't being exposed to the story or BG altered his appearance on the day he murdered Abby and Libby IMO. Could he have even faked an American dialect when speaking to the girls? (Outlandish, I know. But I'm beyond desperate at this point for explanations.)

I used to think that there's one person out there who knows BG and knows what he did but is either too afraid to alert LE or is covering for him. But the more I ponder it, the more I realize that many people have crossed paths with him in his life (after all, even drifters have past ties). Are they ALL afraid to make that call? Are they ALL covering for him? No. Improbable. So why is no one turning him in? WHY??

I agree with you but hopefully the detail of this sketch will help. After all, BG's clothes were generic, his physique is pretty common, his face (until now) had no detail. He may have worn items that he knew he would throw away and rarely wore in everyday life. He could be a schoolteacher or businessman, a welder or author, a policeman or barber, ....this sketch should help.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I'm echoing my own post from the last thread while also expanding on it regarding the mind-boggling fact that no one from BG's life has yet to come forward. Has this guy never had one family member, partner, friend, acquaintance, classmate, boss, co-worker, landlord, neighbor, drinking buddy, etc. in his entire life?

Either the right people aren't being exposed to the story or BG altered his appearance on the day he murdered Abby and Libby IMO. Could he have even faked an American dialect when speaking to the girls? (Outlandish, I know. But I'm beyond desperate at this point for explanations.)

I used to think that there's one person out there who knows BG and knows what he did but is either too afraid to alert LE or is covering for him. But the more I ponder it, the more I realize that many people have crossed paths with him in his life (after all, even drifters have past ties). Are they ALL afraid to make that call? Are they ALL covering for him? No. Improbable. So why is no one turning him in? WHY??

It seems baffling at this point, doesnt it?! I think its a combination of factors..some of which being i do not think he is local, has a very small circle of people who know him (i.e estranged family members who have not seen him in years if not decades). I also think he could be self employed doing odd jobs under the table, maybe even travels with carnivals in the warmer months. I have a friend who was a "carny" and he traveled all over the country and he told me stories of some of the others. He ended up doing several years in prison himself by getting entangled with some of them and their ways. He is free now and living clean, sober and obeying the law, is spiritual now etc) anyhow BG could be traveling in a similar fashion and cut all ties with his family and friends and has minimal contact with people now (say for instance he is a carnie, he may just be with the set up crew and not running a game stand or serving food or selling souvenirs where the public would see him) also maybe hes a meter reader...drives around all day pulling in drives, taking a reading and leaving (and scoping out homes and potential victims as well??) The possibilities are endless. I also wonder if he is hiking around the region and doing odd jobs in small towns where folks dont watch news much. I wonder if he shaved or has grown a full beard by now? Sorry i am derailing my train of thought now...

Also of interest is the new tweeted video from reporter seeming to confirm( ?) Libby did record over her shoulder with the front selfie cam as many of us suspected. So what did BG do already to them to make her stary recording? Did they see him earlier and he flashed them? Made nasty sexual comments to them? He had to have done something to set off her spidery sense.