IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #64

[Barbie619]

I think when people think about killers they always remember the people that come forward about some and say what a normal person they were; good worker, good neighbor, husband, father, ETC. can't believe they were a murderer. I think the reason that sticks out is because it is the exception not the norm.

That is what makes killer's so scary, they aren't recognizable in their own lives, but yet we know Libby and Abby saw the real monster....bless their hearts!!!

 

[margarita25]

we are pretty sure BG is not local so how far would he travel to abduct and murder? rsbm

I think about this question a lot, how far would he travel, how far did he travel...then I think about Israel Keyes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Keyes ), as some have mentioned before, who traveled miles and miles..this particular spot though I think is key, how he knew about it, as discussed there are so many possibilities, worked there, lived there, visited someone there, hunted there, fished there, and if he's a trucker... (where's the closest truck stop again? it's in thread 1 I think...)


***********

Eta:

"Keyes planned murders long ahead of time and took extraordinary action to avoid detection. Unlike most serial killers, he did not have a victim profile. He usually killed far from home, and never in the same area twice. On his murder trips, he kept his mobile phone turned off and paid for items with cash. He had no connection to any of his victims. In the Currier murders, he flew to Chicago, and there rented a car to drive the 1000 additional miles to Vermont. He then used the murder kit he had hidden two years earlier to perform the murders.[21]"

 

[Superslash]

Does anyone think there could be a connection to the Yingying Zhang case?

I think it could be a possibility. Purdue University (which is close to Delphi) is known as an engineering and agricultural school. I read that Yingying was studying photosynthesis and crop production. If BC (suspect in her case) had associates there or followed her there for some reason he could have been in the area.

Of course this is really stretching but not completely out of the realm of possibility...

 

[Shiressleuth]

I also believe he's done this before, maybe not in a double murder, or even a young girl, but he's murdered before. I did a google search on double murder's of young girls, and got 14 million hits with the first 20 or so pages of the Iowa and the Delphi murders.... This seems to be a rare occurence that two young girls are randomly murdered while out living their lives.

Most that I browsed through, the victims knew the killer in same way..... It's hard to believe that he had the ability to get two girls at the same time, in the same place randomly. I would truly hope this pattern doesn't repeat itself either with this suspect or someone who wants to copycat it. I just don't think it's a easy task to get two girls together and to murder them. Might be why it's such a rare occurence and it stands out in both the Iowa & Indiana cases that make it seem similar.

Thanks Barbie. Indeed. I too have researched double child killers and Wiki has a list by decades and I believe there was 40 or so in the states going back to the 70's so it is relatively rare. I don't think BG or the iowa girls killer were necessarily looking for two victims each time and I believe it was so unlucky for all four girls, that is what happened. So now I think we should perhaps ignore the double murder aspect and also look at single murders of young teens and women in Indiana and neighbouring states to try to help with this case.

 

[watcher9]

It's hard to believe that it's only been twelve days since LE released the composite drawing of the suspect when it seems like it's been forever just waiting to hear some news that someone has recognized him from it.

 

[Barbie619]

The sketch was released less than two weeks ago. In the first 2 days LE received approximately 1,500 tips, all of them needing a follow-up. Have we really become a society looking for instant gratification? I'd like to think 12 days on LE isn't a whole lot of time to do all that work...

 

[margarita25]

Thanks Barbie. Indeed. I too have researched double child killers and Wiki has a list by decades and I believe there was 40 or so in the states going back to the 70's so it is relatively rare. I don't think BG or the iowa girls killer were necessarily looking for two victims each time and I believe it was so unlucky for all four girls, that is what happened. So now I think we should perhaps ignore the double murder aspect and also look at single murders of young teens and women in Indiana and neighbouring states to try to help with this case.

I know exactly what you mean. Not only might dual victims not have been his original intention, but even if it was, this might not exclude him from single victims obviously due to the aspect of likely escalation.

We've touched on this some, but maybe we really need to dig here more:

http://www.murderdata.org/

 

[Barbie619]

It's hard to believe that it's only been twelve days since LE released the composite drawing of the suspect when it seems like it's been forever just waiting to hear some news that someone has recognized him from it.

Wow! watcher9 I hadn't seen your post when I wrote my own, but yet we have the same thoughts on it.... thanks....

 

[margarita25]

So, I'm all over the place here today with several open windows, I'm in the Long Haul Truckers Forum, http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?604-Long-Haul-Truckers-amp-Neal-Falls, looking for insight, also MJK, and googling posts from Foxfire lol...

O/T, as this related to MJK, I suspect maaaaybe BG's resume might look something like this with maaaaybe a break in between as seen before due to possible incarceration...again, hoping his sketch etc can be run against not only current prisoners, but past inmates as well...wow, what a task, to look at every prisoner in every prison and jail going back who knows how far...anyway, here's part of MJK's resume, posted by Bessie:

"IA - Michael J Klunder: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK

Nov. 15, 1986— Attacks ELG, 15, in Kensett.

Feb. 22, 1989— Attacks a co-worker at her home

December 15, 1991-- Flashes his car lights to stop a woman driving alone. When she does, he forces her into his car and assaults her. When a passing motorist spots the woman flailing her arms, and follows Klunder's car, he pushes the woman out on the road.

December 16, 1991-- Kidnaps two 3-year-old girls from the front yard of a day care center in Charles City, and takes them to Worthy County where they are found later the same day in a trash receptacle. Both had been choked, one severely.

May 20, 2013— Lures 12-year-old D and 15-year-old Kathlynn Shepard of Dayton, into his truck by promising them summer jobs mowing lawns. When he says that he will drive them home to ask their parents for permission, the girls enter his car. He then drives to a remote area and assaults both girls, killing Kathlyn Shepard. D escapes, and Klunder commits suicide."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rderer-and-Suspected-SK&p=9802759#post9802759

****************

Hmmmmm:

"Officials discover Klunder had local connection

From 1992 to 2011, Klunder served 19 years of a 41-year sentence for kidnapping two 3-year-olds before leaving the girls in a dumpster and holding a 21-year-old woman at knifepoint before she escaped. Inmates can accrue earned time while in prison, and the parole board released Klunder to the residential facility to serve out the remainder of his sentence.

While on work release, Klunder worked for Hay Construction. Steve Hay, president of Hay Construction, said Klunder worked there from mid-October 2010 to January 2011."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rderer-and-Suspected-SK&p=9802768#post9802768


*********
This makes me think about the plant again...

Also have "work release" prisoners or trustees ever landscaped the property, etc? And when? (I came across some in a state park one time...long story, it's posted here somewhere, I will look for the link, its quite a story, o/t of course...)

 

[Barbie619]

I know exactly what you mean. Not only might dual victims not have been his original intention, but even if it was, this might not exclude him from single victims obviously due to the aspect of likely escalation.

We've touched on this some, but maybe we really need to dig here more:

http://www.murderdata.org/

As advanced as LE technology has become it's hard to believe the clearance rate on case's has declined. Some of this amazing technology should be used to figure out that maybe LE got it wrong and convicted more innocent people than they will ever admit.

Better technique's should lead to more convictions not less. However the article is talking about a specific subgroup of LE where 10 or more murder's are happening.

"The law enforcement agencies with the most improved homicide clearance rates were: Mesa Police Department, Arizona; Tulare County Sheriff’s Office, California; Metropolitan Police Department, Washington, DC; North Little Rock Police Department, Arkansas; East Orange Police Department, New Jersey; Fresno Police Department, California; Winston-Salem Police Department, North Carolina; Richmond Police Department, Virginia; Santa Anna Police Department, California; Oxnard Police Department, California.


These agencies increased their clearance rates by a range from 36 percentage points in the case of Mesa Police down to 21 percentage points in the case of Oxnard Police.


The 10 law enforcement agencies reporting the largest declines in homicide clearance were: Newark Police Department, New Jersey; Little Rock Police Department, Arkansas; Trenton Police Department, New Jersey; Pine Bluff Police Department, Arkansas; Chester Police Department, Pennsylvania; Elizabeth Police Department, New Jersey; Flint Police Department, Michigan; Camden City/County Police Department, New Jersey; City of Yonkers Police Department, New York; Stanislaus County Sheriff’s Office, California."

I don't know how this list is calculating all of the factor's to come up with this list, but the list with the largest declines on homicides I know or have lived in....... with the exception of a few of both increases and decrease's are Coastal area's of the Country, not a whole in the mid-western demographic. The area's on this list that I know are high crime, drug/gang related, not random killings in that respect.

 

[Barbie619]

So, I'm all over the place here today with several open windows, I'm in the Long Haul truckers Forum, link in orogress, looking for insight, also MJK, and googling posts from Foxfire lol...

O/T, as this related to MJK, I suspect maaaaybe BG's resume might look something like this with maaaaybe a break in between as seen before due to possible incarceration...again, hoping his sketch etc can be run against not only current prisoners, but past prisonets...wow, what a task, to look at every prisoner in every prison and jail going back who knows how far...anyway, here's part of MJK's resume, posted by Bessie:

"IA - Michael J Klunder: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK

Nov. 15, 1986— Attacks ELG, 15, in Kensett.

Feb. 22, 1989— Attacks a co-worker at her home

December 15, 1991-- Flashes his car lights to stop a woman driving alone. When she does, he forces her into his car and assaults her. When a passing motorist spots the woman flailing her arms, and follows Klunder's car, he pushes the woman out on the road.

December 16, 1991-- Kidnaps two 3-year-old girls from the front yard of a day care center in Charles City, and takes them to Worthy County where they are found later the same day in a trash receptacle. Both had been choked, one severely.

May 20, 2013— Lures 12-year-old D and 15-year-old Kathlynn Shepard of Dayton, into his truck by promising them summer jobs mowing lawns. When he says that he will drive them home to ask their parents for permission, the girls enter his car. He then drives to a remote area and assaults both girls, killing Kathlyn Shepard. D escapes, and Klunder commits suicide."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rderer-and-Suspected-SK&p=9802759#post9802759

****************

Hmmmmm:

"Officials discover Klunder had local connection

From 1992 to 2011, Klunder served 19 years of a 41-year sentence for kidnapping two 3-year-olds before leaving the girls in a dumpster and holding a 21-year-old woman at knifepoint before she escaped. Inmates can accrue earned time while in prison, and the parole board released Klunder to the residential facility to serve out the remainder of his sentence.

While on work release, Klunder worked for Hay Construction. Steve Hay, president of Hay Construction, said Klunder worked there from mid-October 2010 to January 2011."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rderer-and-Suspected-SK&p=9802768#post9802768


*********
This makes me think about the plant again...

Also have "work release" prisoners or trustees ever landscaped the property, etc? And when? (I came across some in park one time...long story, it's posted here somewhere, I will look for the link...)

So scary......

I wish I had the same fortitude as you to bounce around to different cases... I'm very impressed. Good stuff..

 

[margarita25]

I think if it's camouflage on his hat, which I do think so, this is informative profile wise. And has flaps. Hunting cap. Military cap.

I keep coming back to hunting. Deer hunting. Moo.

 

[margarita25]

So, I've linked several of Foxfire's posts in the early threads "there's a reason for the seasons", "there'a reason he's gone undetected for so long", "skilled hunter", etc, etc. I thought this post could maybe apply here as well re: jurisdictional linkage blindness...While I do think LE is obviously searching the whole country, hence the billboards, possible trucker MO, etc, I think Foxfire has some good points...there might be some closed MP cases that need to be reopened...I have also mentioned this as far as how I think a link can be made, DNA retested sitting on some cold case shelf somewhere:

Quote by Foxfire:

"I sure hope that all the adjacent counties and beyond will reopen their missing-persons cases. The first rule of prey for serial predators/killers is to utilize jurisdictional linkage blindness in their crimes to prevent detection.. Imo, there will be many police jurisdictions involved in TK's trail of terror investigation. TK relocated to another geographical area of SC to go off the radar, remain stealth, and prevent detection for previous crimes, imo..

Linkage Blindness
Dr Steven Egger
http://sk.sagepub.com/reference/violentcrime/n259.xml
Law enforcement investigators sometimes do not see or are prevented from seeing beyond their own jurisdictional responsibilities. The officer's responsibility usually stops at the boundary of the jurisdiction except when hot pursuit is necessary. A police department's accountability and responsiveness to its jurisdictional clients can create a sense of isolation from the outside world. The term linkage blindness was coined in 1984 to denote an underlying problem with law enforcement serial murder investigations and some other crimes as well."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...1-Aug-2016-*Arrest*-2&p=12913197#post12913197

 

[rosesfromangels]

Still obsessed with Gary, Indiana. Look at the high crime rate! I would blanket Gary, IN with the poster. That is a lot of reward money; someone will talk.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Gary-Indiana.html

Editing to add that if he *is* from Gary, Indiana, then there is a good chance he is a steel worker.

All amateur speculation and opinion.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I think nearly a quarter of a million dollars is enough incentive for anyone who knew who BG was to turn them in. And my sincere hope is that someone already has made that call, and that it is one of the leads being developed. If not, I think BGs getup (as my mom would call it) was really, really different than his "normal" appearance, and it would confirm to me that he is truly a loner, perhaps without family or friends. As a social worker, it always takes me aback when ppl assume that everyone has family and a few friends. There are many, many, people, more than you'd think, who have nobody.

A total guess. Maybe 3 of 5 are loners. ?

 

[Steleheart]

I hope the FBI is planning to re-do the billboards to include the new composite. 6000 billboards in 48 states with this new composite should be helpful!

JMO

 

[margarita25]

So, LE mentioned early on they think he might have had a duffle bag. So I would ascertain they think not all is revealed in the still, meaning the duffle bag, so he maybe set it down, or hid it...I'm guessing put it at the foot of the bridge, or even scarier had it already at the murder scene?

We've discussed this, Kill kit supplies? Change of clothes? Gloves?
Or just a drifter?(homeless supplies)...I don't know about this homeless drifter thing...


Then there's the whole Hoosier Hwy thing....

Have we ever mapped out where we think he might have/could have parked in order to a)have a parking spot with least visibility (assuming he drove a car, atv, or motorcycle) b) have the quickest fastest exit, maybe via the Hoosier Hwy. I'm thinking maybe along the road, hidden behind trees...I know the cemetery is an option...

Sorry for going round in circles, don't know what else to do. Hoping we can come up with sooooomething to send to LE, that they might not have already come across (other possible case, etc etc.). Gah I'm so frustrated like we all are. Thanks everyone for sticking around, joining, participating...this one is still keeping me up at night...

 

[margarita25]

I hope the FBI is planning to re-do the billboards to include the new composite. 6000 billboards in 48 states with this new composite should be helpful!

JMO

Yes!!

 

[margarita25]

Was this case ever solved? (Trying to find unsolved cases in Indiana (if he even lives in Indiana or always kills in Indiana, could be Chicago or anywhere...) Anyway, likely unrelated but who knows...could this cold case have a usuable DNA that could be retested? Or if there is already a profile in CODIS, has a match been ruled out?

http://www.wthr.com/article/woman-fears-daughters-89-slaying-may-go-unsolved

 

[margarita25]

https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/Hearts1stEdition.pdf
(See Juanita Boyd)